Goddess

Wow, I am so sorry that you experienced all that in your life. Truly. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the difficult work you have done to heal - and it is very hard work to recover from such abuse. That you did it, likely without the supports and programs available to women victims, is even more impressive. You very eloquently express how this type of abuse affects both men and women. A male perspective on female abusers is a much needed voice on this topic. You should consider working with survivors. I have volunteered extensively to work with survivors of high-control religious cults and for many, leaving came after suffering abuses like your's. And they were shut down and silenced by the group, as you were by your father. Absolutely - hurt people have a tendency to hurt others. Great topic, thanks for bringing it to the forum. Great reply from Dia, too.

Does "ZavHoz" mean "hot enough for ya?" in another language? Asking for a friend.....

And males have made a joke of assaulting females since time immemorial...... Remember "grab 'em by the pu$$y"? And I can't tell you how many jokes I've heard over the years about smacking and beating wives who just won't listen..... It's wrong coming from either side, completely agree with you. I think we are coming closer to agreement between the sexes, but still some work to do. Female aggression is also an important discussion that needs to happen. I'd rather see those discussions take place here than on INCel sites. I was thinking of this topic earlier this morning as I read this article: (let me know if you'd like to read it and the link doesn't allow you to - it's a site I subscribe to, so the link may not work for you.) https://www.elephantjournal.com/2017/04/ill-tell-you-where-all-the-good-men-have-gone/

Who says it's acceptable and harmless? The fact is the overwhelming majority of sexual offenders are men, so most programs for abusers are geared towards men and most victim services are geared towards women/children. I'm seeing more often than in the past - programs and advertising acknowledging that women also offend and there are more and more programs specifically geared for men who are abused by women. I expect this will continue, as I don't believe the general public agrees with you that women abusers are "harmless" or "acceptable."

Turkey lied again, eh..... How is that "new"?

You can respect it if you like. I do not respect the choice to promote ISIS ideology in Canada, any more than I would respect the choice of a woman to wear a t-shirt with a swastika on it, or if she chose to wear a KKK hood. If they choose to wear it to mosque or choose to wear it to a formal occasion now and then or choose to just wear it once in a while, fine. But promoting the wearing of it at all times, not being allowed to be seen without it, refusing to remove it when asked and when appropriate - that is ISIS ideology and I do not respect that.

Reputable Islamic scholars all agree that constant covering of women, whether in burkas or hijabs, is NOT an Islamic requirement. ISIS is the one wants all women covered at all times. Extremists want women covered at all times. Whose ideology do you support? I do not support ISIS and extremist's ideology. I do not support anyone who supports and wants to promote their ideology. End.

How am I forcing her to not exercise her choice? By expressing my opinion that forced hijab is more common than we like to admit and that I agree with all the studies that show how oppressive it is to women and to society?

Then don't support people who use their freedom to oppress others. It is very clear that it is NOT a choice for many. I do not support anyone's "choice" to promote oppressive religious ideologies. I do not respect the "choice" to promote such damaging ideologies in a free society that has already rid itself of most oppression of women. I don't want to backwards. And I do not have to respect the "choice" of those who do want to go back to oprressing women.

You are very badly mistaken if you think every woman in Canada in a hijab has made that "choice". THAT is what I have an issue with. Seriously, read any ex-Muslim forum and you will threads and threads and threads of women in Canada and the US who are forced to wear it, but publicly have to say it's their "choice" to avoid repercussions from the religion, their community, their families.

Respecting people's choices and respecting people are 2 different things. I do not respect the choices of people who choose to use their freedom to oppress others. I'm very surprised that you do. Well, not really I guess. I sort of think if it was men in dog collars being led around by women on leashes, you would not be so complacent and supportive about it.

Disagree. There is a myriad of evidence from psychologists and sociaologists that agree it is repressive/oppressive/unhealthy whether it's their "choice" to be oppressed or not.

I do not have to RESPECT such a choice.

Who do they think THEY are that their repressive and oppressive ideologies should have a place in Western society?

Stop there. Now think about that from the viewpoint of women. As a woman the last thing I want to see parading around the streets as normal and legitimate, is the symbol of repression of women. Western society has made great strides in equality of the sexes, but it is still fragile. Women know this. It is frightening to see this go on in Western countries, a reminder of how quickly and easily everything we have fought for can be taken away. How would you feel if there was a religious group - a growing religious group - that felt men should never leave the house without a collar around their neck and being led on a leash by a woman? I'm not even talking about whether the man in question "says" it's his choice, or not. How would it make you feel if men had fought long and hard for many years to be let off their leashes and now you suddenly see more and more men on leashes, being yanked around by women? Would it make you feel safe? Comfortable? What if other countries have a LAW that says all men must be on leashes, led by women? And men were being killed and beaten on the daily for disobedience? Would you want to see that brought to your country?

Another reasoning that people like to use for not allowing hijabs/burkas in a free country is that it is cruel to the women because they feel "naked" and uncomfortable without it after wearing it from the time they are little. That is no reason to keep people in mental prisons or damage society with repressive ideologies. When I left the religion I was in, I was sure the first few times I celebrated my birthday or put up a Christmas tree that fire and brimstone were going to come down and smite me and the feelings of guilt and fear were very difficult and uncomfortable. I got over it. So will they. Nothing tastes as good as REAL freedom. And I am forever grateful to the people who helped me out of my mental prison and didn't allow me to wallow there.

You only need to read a few threads on any ex-Muslim forum to see how much of a choice it is. Thread after thread after thread of women and girls who are forced to wear it. And some threads from women who DO actually have the choice but can't figure out how to get out of the mental prison that tells them they are whores the second they walk outside without it. Which has always begged the question for me - If it's really a choice, then why can't they choose NOT to wear it?

So if we do any business with the Saudis we have to fling open Canada's doors to everything Saudi? Let their extremist brand of Islam have full reign in Canada? No thanks. Just because I shop at Sobey's for groceries, doesn't mean all their employees are entitled to enter my home anytime they feel like it and do anything they want.

Too late. It's already begun.

The hijab'ed ladies that my friend worked with? I don't know. I didn't ask. It didn't seem to matter, as their focus was on their being Muslim and making sure other Muslim ladies wore hijabs to work.

It's sad when women participate in their own oppression. I related a story here once from a friend of mine in Canada who worked with a lot of hijab'ed ladies. One didn't wear the hijab (she had to pray an extra 5 times a day to make up for her sin of "vanity") and my friend supported her when all the other hijab'ed ladies in the office harrassed her daily for not wearing it. I was told here that my friend is a liar and Muslim women don't do this to each other because it's a "choice". But they do. And they do it here in Canada, too.

My feeling with the turbans/motorcycles is that they should be free to not wear a helmet as per their religion. However, I feel it should be the same as with smokers - it should be difficult or extremely expensive to get insurance for motorcycle riding without a helmet. And they can't sue anyone when their brains are splattered all over the pavement from an accident that they could have easily survived had they been wearing the proper safety gear. If they want the right to not wear helmets, then they should also have to eat the consequences and responsibilities.

Either way, we pay for it. To me, the process of weeding out illegals and fake refugees needs to be greatly speeded up - due to the large numbers we are receiving right now. We pay for them for years before they are finally given the boot or they create a life including children born here and then we're stuck with them.

When you attack a person wrongly - it's nobody's fault but your own.

WTF??