WestCanMan

IMO there's almost no money spent policing public parks re: alcohol, and a police presence is never a bad thing. Pessimists see "cops harassing minorities". Optimists see less guns on the street, less people killed, which will mainly be minorities. If you're keeping score, the people who are in favour of carding and pro-life (GOP in the States, Conservatives in Canada) will save the lives of a lot of adult minorities, and the lives of a lot of minority babies. It's TOTALLY racist. I think that's the path we're on. You really want to limit the police to the greatest extent possible, cut back their budget, tie their hands on the most badsic and effective measures known to law enforcement, and somehow have a positive outcome. I think that people need to chill out and understand that there are 1M police officers in the US. That's a lot of cops. They get called to tens of millions of domestic disputes every year. Those are actually dangerous - people like to feel like they are in charge in their own homes. (I've seen stats that say 24 incidents of spousal abuse happen every minute in the US). They interact with gangsters, drug dealers, murderers, violent criminals, child abusers, drunk drivers, and general violence as well. All together I'm just guessing that they have over a hundreds million of these incidents per year (10 per cop). Seems like it's probably on the low side, because I'm not talking about "arrests only". Just situations where they are involved with this kind of thing. Maybe it's 200 per cop? I dunno. There's an incident like this approximately once every two years involving a black person. So basically one in every 200 million interactions between the police and persons of interest ends up in something like this? One in 300M? I dunno, it's an extreme amount of highly-charged incidents with a one in 200-400 million chance of an incident like this. If it happened to blacks far more often than whites I'd say this was proof of racism. It happens to whites more often than blacks. Was this really worth all the accusations of racism?

No, it's a line of dead bodies over 8 miles long. If you were in a car going 100 km/hr it would take 8 minutes to pass them all.

TBH I think the cops in the US might put up with a bit more than BC cops do. About 5 - 10 years ago there was a guy in BC with a bicycle chain who was in a long standoff with police. There were a lot of cops surrounding him when they finally shot him. After he was crawling on the ground, shot once, with cops all around, a cop opened up and blasted him several more times. Some foreign visitor had it on camera, went home, and didn't release the video until after it had gone through the courts. Nothing happened to the cop who shot him iirc. I don't think he even lost his job. A couple years later in Seattle there was a guy with a Samurai sword in a lengthy standoff with police, they eventually took him into custody. Vcr cop: "I'll take Samurai sword vs bicycle chain for $200 plz Alex" Trebec: "If you had your choice, you'd much rather be attacked with this non-lethal weapon." Vcr cop: "What is a Samurai sword?" Alex: "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck"

I've been drinking beer in public parks for 40-50 days a year since 2000 when I started playing softball here in BC. We've had beer coolers there at almost every game and I've never had a cop say boo to anyone on my teams about it. It's no big secret that it's there. I think this is more of a covid thing that you're talking about, or maybe it has to do with the province that you live in. I didn't even know that getting bothered by police for drinking in a park was a thing. In BC, at baseball games, it's not. Is this happening at night or during the day?

This was a good idea for a topic, and a rational post with ideas/beliefs which are widely held and need to be fully understood without bias or prejudice in order for people to live peacefully. I really appreciate where you're coming from Zg. Of course we will have differences of opinion here, as I'm a law and order guy and you're largely a "safe space" person, but I'll do my best to start a positive exchange. I agree that no "force" should be used on peaceful protestors. *However* If you agree that rioting has to be stopped, then you must have noticed that peaceful protests morph into something else as the dusk approaches, and there are no "good protests" after dark. If you're still with me, then you might agree that dispersing crowds an hour before dark is necessary because it's not an instantaneous process. So mandatory curfews on protests are going to be needed if you want a guarantee of no force. Sad but unavoidable imo. Also, there needs to be some kind of a protocol for weeding aggressive protestors out of the situation. This is where it gets really messy. It just takes on or two agitators to turn a crowd into a mob, and it's just as easy for a crowd to turn into a mob when police move on disturbers like that. IMO this is the friction point, or the spark that ignites the flame. How od you deal with this specific scenario? Johann Hari's "Rat Park" Ted Talk should almost be mandatory viewing for people who want to weigh in on the topic of drugs. I'm no expert though, and this is a huge issue worthy of it's own thread. Public drinking is allowed to some extent, but the right for people to enjoy their property (owners and tenants both) can easily be infringed on by the nuisances of public drinking. The laws against drinking in public aren't there so that cops can bash in the skulls of anyone they catch drinking, they're there so that police can use their discretion when necessary. If you take those laws away then police have to wait until "after there's a real problem" before they can nip the problem of public drunkenness in the bud. I've been a drinker myself and been in my share of situations, I've never had an issue with the police. I play ball in parks in BC and the cops know that every team there has a beer cooler and there are people smoking weed all over the place. They don't do jack. I had an RCMP officer on a team that I played on in Bolivar Park of all places. Even I don't go there any more. He'd have a beer, he just said "don't let me see the weed" because technically it was illegal then. If police come to a park and see a problem, current liquor laws give them good reason to "nip things in the bud" and that's what good community policing does. More later....

I see CNN and the Dems/Obama portraying the rioting and looting as an expression of anger towards injustice. That is a choice they make, and I'm saying what the consequences of their narrative are. I'm not generalizing, I'm telling you what the Dem leadership is asking of their supporters. Rage. Anger. Get out on the streets, be full of rage. When the "protests" turn violent, it's not considered "a heinous crime inflicted on businesses who had nothing to do with Floyd's death", it's talked about as "a normal side effect of so much rage at blatant systemic racism that is killing blacks". They get exactly what they ask for. They devote their programming to it. They love a divided America.

I just said that the rioting/looting/arson is a Dem/CNN phenomenon, and it absolutely is. I did not say that it had anything to do with Marxism. That's a totally separate topic and you're putting words in my mouth Rue. The two may or may not be linked, I doubt it's a useful topic for discussion, and I didn't say it. Regarding the arson, looting and rioting: if you listen to the president and their media, (let's do away with pretending that Fox isn't GOP, and CNN isn't Dem) you'll get the clear picture that rioters and looters are criminal scum and the mayors/governors need to employ the full force of the law, whatever it takes, to stop it. Their rallying cry, is stop the riots. If you listen to the Dems, Obama, and their media, the protests are great and mostly peaceful and there's no need for more protection even the morning after riots. They're not showing video of blacks and immigrants whose businesses have been destroyed, they just pour on more hatred and division every minute of the day. Their rallying cry, is get out on the streets, it's normal for a bit of damage to occur. After the Ferguson shooting CNN refused to show M Brown's violence. They kept propagating the FALSE gentle Giant narrative, which was incorrect and incediary. Obama and CNN almost never talked about an end to the rioting and looting. Their talk-time was mainly dedicated to pumping up the legitimacy of the protests. Obama was not on a crusade to stop the riots. He wasn't upset by anthem-kneeling, which was against the NFL's policies at the time, hence it constituted lawful reason for firing. Obama was making it American's highest calling to "protest". Just in case I wasn't clear, I'll say it again - the rioting, looting and arson is almost exclusively a Dem/CNN phenomenon. Support within the Dem base is moderate-to-high, as a "normal side effect of a worthwhile cause". In the GOP circles, support of rioting is close to 0%, regardless of anything else. I will hazard a guess that Obama, CNN and the Dems would be really upset if there wasn't any rioting but I don't expect any of them would admit to it.

In all honesty, I'm done with this country and I want it to break apart. I hate being Canadian now. I literally can't believe that there are people who are stupid enough to still support Trudeau. The little wimp did everything he could to get covid here, and for it to be spread far and wide as fast as possible, then he hid in his basement while nearly 8,000 Canadians died. People still aren't allowed to go back to work or have weddings or funerals because they can't gather, and he goes out in a mob of thousands. And that's just in the last month or so.

Of course. I live in Canada. I don't have any choice but watch local news because it's pertinent to my work. It's not like they're lying to everyone else on Global but what they say to me is true...

No one is happy about Floyd's death, but the rioting and looting that happened under Obama's Presidency, and the rioting of the past couple weeks, is a Dem/Antifa/BLM phenomenon. I'm not sure what part of that you disagree with. Do you think that Conservatives (GOP) are endorsing the rioting and arson in any way? GOP are very outspoken against the rioting. They're not the ones who are acting like it's not happening very much, or that it's not out of place.

You must know that CNN and NYT are cut from the same cloth right? It's like an echo chamber for misinformation. Add Snopes to that list. It's like the triumvirate of tripe. Print, media, and internet "fact"-checking, all rolled into one heinous blob. Catch me on a lie, then we'll talk.

Never heard of it. I'll google it lol.

If you have so many sources, how can you be so wrong with metronome consistency? FYI the learning curve on pandemics isn't new. Taiwan and Japan didn't invent masks and travel bans. Can you find where I complimented Sweden's complacency? If you wanna go there, sadly you'll find nothing. Maybe in their socialist quagmire they wanted to cull the herd a bit? Horrible theory, but Trudeau did everything he could to let the virus into Canada as well up until March 16th, and then he hid in his own basement. This isn't a "top of mind' theory, but ya gotta wonder why a nation's response to a pandemic would be to do nothing at all. There aren't a whole lot of other great ideas that spring to mind, and no I don't believe that Dr Tam and the entire WHO were dumb enough to believe that blocking travel and wearing masks was bad. I've acknowledged Trump's many flaws, many times. I just don't automatically conclude that he's lying because he groped some floozies. I didn't assume that about Trudeau or B Clinton either. That's because I'm not a hypocrite, like every Lib or Dem toady on this site. Did CBC question Trudeau's weird advice re: covid? Were they criticl in hindsight? Or were they too bust being critical of Trump, and Canadian conservatives who questioned Dr Tam's advice (and rightly so)? The topic of hypocrisy doesn't flatter you or your idiotic "news" sources d. I'd cut and run from this one of I was you.

This from a CNN drone. LMAO. How many major stories has CNN gotten right in the last 3 years now MH? Name one. Just one single story. That should be easy, with a 3 yr window to look at, right?

In all honesty, the first change that a person needs to make is to really open their eyes and catch people lying to them. In this day and age it's really easy, because it's quite blatant, quite frequently. The main problem is that people are too scared of cognitive dissonance. They can't entertain the possibility that "their side" was wrong and the "other side" was right. They can't let that first domino tip over because they know where it leads.

I'm not the one defending the position that "blocking travel is bad and masks are bad". That would be you. Dr Tam even backtracked on both counts, and looks like a total idiot for being in that position. You're the one who refuses to take your media to task for blindly propagating the advice of Dr Tam/Trudeau/WHO and for demonizing countries like Japan (just Trump actually) for doing the right things. Could you take a second right now to acknowledge just how blatantly wrong their advice was? Do you understand that when you do, you'll be admitting that I was right months ago while you were wallowing in stupidity and ignorance? Thanks for coming out again dialamah. Next time you want science advice, ignore CNN and ask me what's up. I promise to tell you the truth, and you should know for certain that CNN will not.

Clearly you're willing to be led around by the nose by anyone who shows up on CNN. You have no ability whatsoever to catch people on blatant lies. That's why we can never see eye to eye. Have you posted a cite for the BS you're plopping down? Nope. You have to believe the subject matter that is being dumped on you because you have absolutely no way to fact check them. They're saying something that appears to be convenient for you so as far as you're concerned, it's gospel truth. If 400 people got onto two planes, one plane went to Milan and one went to NYC, would they all have the same strain? Would you bet your life on the science that you're blindly propagating? Would you bet $100 that they can absolutely say for certain that everyone who got sick in NYC was infected via Europe? Do you know what the chances are that what you're saying is even true? How many people do you think fly to NYC from China every day? How many come from Seattle, where the "Chinese" strain of the virus is? It's actually 100% impossible for people in NYC to not be infected via Seattle or China, and if covid is as contagious as it's rumoured to be then it got on the subway system and spread like wildfire. The theory that you're peddling is actually stupid dialamah, compared to basic common sense like blocking the path of the virus and wearing masks? LMAO. I want to congratulate you for trying so hard to cover for Trudeau's stupidity, but at the same time, you're like a Nazi with your undying loyalty to a dreadfully unworthy "leader". If I'm the incompetent one here then why was I able to properly predict how to fight covid when YOUR BELOVED SCIENTISTS AND DOCTORS were all 100% wrong? Why does this new "evidence" seem to do damage control for their stupidity? Why did countries like Japan, who did the things that I proposed, do so well compared to Canada? You don't know. That's the actual answer to everything dalamah. You never know. You're on the wrong side of this one and you just refuse to admit it.

"Capitalism is the enemy" "Free ____________ [everything]" "Equality of outcome" "People with money are guilty" You don't need a book to become a Marxist. You can watch CNN or CBC. Run some google searches. Thank your trusted news source for this low herd mentality. Stupidity. Gullibility. Leftism. Racism. I'll stop here. I see people lying here all the time, and I call them out on it. I call the MSM out on actual, material lies all the time. No one gives a rip. That's why they'll never change. They're stuck in a hole that they're helping to dig.

Everything you say is funny.

Meh. I'm not a fan of Canadians these days. The majority of Canadians are pathetic, weak, stupid.

MAGA

Not really, I got onto the topic of Global News vilifying conservative MPs for questioning Dr. Tam’s seemingly sinister advice. That’s totally on the topic of people being censured for questioning leftist dogma. In fact, it couldn’t be any more on topic.

Riiiight. “Scientists”. It’s funny how scientists are instantly discredited by everyone on the left when they say some thing that leftists don’t like, but as soon as one scientist says something that leftists like it’s carved in stone. That crap was posted here over a month ago. Theoretically, within a couple weeks of Covid being in America, “scientists” were really able to see exactly where every human in NYC got the virus from, and what race of people had it before them. Maybe the strain that infected Europeans also infected Americans at the same time. Two airplanes with infected people could’ve left Wuhan on the same day with 50 infected people on each one of them. No one knows that that’s not the case. It’s not impossible that it was people from New York that infected Europeans. The truth is that no one knows. It’s impossible to know. Anyone who pretends to know for certain just has an agenda that they’re trying to push. Why were CNN’s vaunted “scientists” so wrong about HCQ’s side-effects? It’s not like they had to research them themselves and they just made a few mistakes or anything, they could’ve just googled it. They could’ve looked at the 50-year-old studies, or all the side effects that happened when it was given to literally millions of patients over the past 40 years. Unfortunately, in the age of misinformation, the last thing that we can really do is rely on the what “scientists” tell us. Even the world health organization gets things 100% wrong and they only have to give really simple advice, that has been known for centuries. And like I said, even if somehow we stumbled onto some honest scientists and they got it right, that means that the virus got to the US from Europe, which means that Trump’s China travel ban pushed covid’s entry into the US back by about 14 days.

Talk about conspiracy theories and utter bullshit. You think I'm going to take your word that people really know what countries the virus came from, or that they'd be honest about it if they did? Do you remember how many lies came out about HCQ, from major sources that we honestly should be able to rely on, within two days of Trump first mentioning it? It was absurd how desperate they were to discredit an off-patent drug. And if what you're saying is true, then Trump's travel ban actually worked because it forced the virus to take a circuitous route to enter the US. IE, it didn't come from people who were in China, but from people who were in contact with people who were in China that then went to the US. That is almost a 14-day grace period. Thanks Trump. I forgot to mention, in Japan their travel ban was even more specific than the US ban. They just banned people from Hubeii province. Japan kicked covid's ass.

I didn't say that mob mentality is a leftist phenomenon, I just said that this rioting looting and arson was a leftist phenomenon. Do you think any Republicans/Conservatives are happy about cop-killing, looting and arson? Only leftists are cheering for the riots. Only CNN and the Dems are talking about defunding police like the subject has merit. https://www.straitstimes.com/world/united-states/obama-voices-support-for-young-us-protesters Obama and CNN constantly praise protests and protestors and they outright refuse to speak critically of the BLM & Antifa, they ignore rioting and looting, the arson... It's all good to them. I hardly ever heard about Obama for the last 3 years. As soon as the rioting happened he was all over the place pumping his fist. I think that piece of crap actually likes the fact that America is just the way he left it again. If he didn't like America burning, he didn't show it. I saw right-wing protests, most notable in Michigan. They weren't pretty, they were actually scary because of the number of guns involved, but there was no rioting or looting.