Hal 9000

Fair enough, far be it for me to defend Kanye, I thought we were focussing on the Kanye/Swift dispute. I think he's pretty much a douche to everybody equally.

That seems like a stretch, especially considering his impulsive outburst was an ill conceived defence of Beyonce.

I think what he's saying is that white people have evolved since the times of slavery, but blacks are fundamentally the same as when they were brought over here. Kind of unfair if you asked me.

I think what Rock is saying is that white people are making an effort, but black people simply won't let it go.

It's not their personal life though, this is the public image that these two people are displaying for us.

I've been watching Taylor Swift since the "picture to burn" stage, and yes, I'll agree that that she got to the national stage by her talent. But, that was 10 years ago. To rise to the superstar status she has now required a team, some of which (9) were on stage with her. So no, nobody dreamed up Taylor Swift, they merely saw a product that could be expanded and marketed with the right help. BTW - I had forgot that Jennifer Lawrence was in that movie, I remember Bradley Cooper, Christian Bale and Amy Adams. How much did Amy Adams make, because she was pretty good....and that might make a better example.

I think our guilt meter is set at 25,000 at the moment. Harper's guilt meter was only at 10,000. That rate jumped to 25,000 with the photo of the dead child and Harper was too slow to react so he was ousted. Every now and then a news story pops up and it increases a little. One more displeasing photo could bump our guilt level to 50,000.

I've seen so many definitions of sexual assault lately, that it could be argued that it wasn't sexual assault at all, but just ordinary assault.

I thought "rape shield" only extended to previous sexual encounters/behaviour, not post sexual behaviour.

So, we all know what Kanye has said about Taylor, and he mentions her by name in a song, something about making her a star, which is ironic because he's actually using her name and his douchbaggery from the VMA award show to sell his records, which makes him the parasite - and clearly a douche. Now, not to outdone, has't Taylor Swift been synonymous for writing songs trashing other celebrity ex boyfriends? Then she gets on stage and does what? She pulls a Kanye, doesn't mention his name, but it seemed pretty obvious. She looked like a bits and now enters the douche category. I know women around the world are saying "you go girl", but really, I think she proved that her and Kanye are cut from the same cloth. P.S - The 9 collaborators that had to stand there and hear Taylor Swift thank them, then say it was all about her accomplishments.

I'm speaking to the idea that she's somehow persecuted by the establishment for being female. Not that she hasn't made good decisions. When she started her speech with the whole "as the first woman to win this award twice" and then raised the suggestion that she had some major struggle to overcome...well, it seemed somewhat delusional! Let's face it, she has a team of people doing everything possible to get her to the top, she's super hot and appeals to many people - she sells, she is the chosen one. Shania Twain was nothing until Mutt Lange got ahold of her and was nothing when he left, but in between she was the chosen one in the 90's. The industry needs to elevate these people to keep the money rolling in, it's a factory and Swift along with Bieber and the rest are the product of today, not the music. It's all artificial.

That's right, I remember watching the OJ trial and a lawyer once said "if I think my client is guilty, I keep them off the stand, If I think they're innocent I definitely keep them off the stand".

Well, thanks for that professor, but we all know the system isn't perfect. I won't offer up any solutions because 1) I don't believe that there are any solutions that both hep the victims seek justice and yet allow us to maintain the "innocent until proven guilty" philosophy and...2) I'm not the one wringing my hands in angst about the situation - sometimes, good has to be good enough. If I have issues with the law, it would be cases where drunk drivers get away with killing somebody or that a woman can't legally carry certain type of protection or that men get screwed in family court....

I agree with your original post. Don't let WCR turn this into a "women are victims of the music industry" thread. Taylor Swift is like nearly every other pop star, mediocre talent with the X-factor. Producers find them and turn them into mega-stars - male or female. For every Justin Bieber, Timberlake or boy band member, there is a Miley, Demi, Selena, Spice girl and whoever. This isn't some struggle for women in the industry. Taylor Swift is no Tina Turner or Dians Ross...she's no Madonna either, she is a product of a production company just like Bieber.

cyber - If you want to complain about the system, fair enough, but don't sit there and complain that we just do understand, while refusing to give other ideas.

I'm not being facetious, i'm trying to see if you have ideas. I haven't said there are no problems with the system. It may not be the perfect system, but it's better than anyone else has come up with.

Interesting, yet random take on things.

$100,000,000 is only $4,000 each (based on 25k). That'll barely cover the costs to get them here. I think the actual cost will be much much higher.

I don't know all the facets to this spat, but I don't think Kanye said or did anything because of her gender. Originally, he was pissed because he was going for Beyonce. If anything, he has a problem with her skin colour.

I thought it was too rushed too, but I also think Lady Gaga is a great singer and did a really good job of it.

Kanye is a douche! Lady Gaga was pretty good last night though.

I'm sure they do, but if they did just one thing that showed displeasure - then that would something. Instead, they all come off as merely jilted, angry women who are acting out of spite because he ditched them. I can't help the optics. I've know victims in my life and I gotta say, I've never ever heard of a sexual assault victim sending their abuser scantily clad photos and love letters in the hopes of getting them to admit something or to normalize a situation. Of course, I don't have stats, just life experience.

It's not that easy. But yeah, If these women went to the police, (at the time), talked to a grief or guidance counsellor, avoided Ghomeshi, avoided talking to each other or a publicist...anything, it would possibly change my mind. We know he's a douche, but doing Karaoke to "hit me baby one more time", sending him flowers and stalking him does speak to a complicity between the parties.

These women were in their 30's - at least Lucy was. That's hardly young and naive..... or vulnerable.

I see it differently, I think Ghomeshi chose a judge because a judge would be obliged to follow the rule of law, whereas a jury could potentially exhibit people who will vote guilty based on nothing but pure emotion. We're seeing that here. I know that there are at least 3 active posters in this thread who would return a guilty verdict.