Hal 9000

So, when you're losing an argument you claim to be misquoted, try to change the argument and proceed to claim that we just don't understand. You know who you sound like? I'll give you hint; she also lives on the west coast.

I understand just fine. I just disagree with most of what your saying. My position is that "people do what works for them" and when it doesn't, they move on. So what? These restaurants are for the most part adult establishments and like Kimmy said, they are selling an experience. Maybe the issue is that we shouldn't be allowing underage people in those establishments or allow teens to work there. Why has nobody questioned that nearly all these servers are hot (8+) young women. If there is a complaint, it should be that these places discriminate against uggos and heifers. P.S - Why do you suppose that the Bier Markt changed their servers dress? And...why, If the complainant quit and moved on to another job is she still bothered by the dress code change?

What are you talking about? Of course they wear suits in non-air conditioned offices. Many people work day-in day-out in uncomfortable clothing, sometimes for safety, sometimes because of the image they need to present. It's really not unusual, and it's not a gender issue either. Back to the issue at hand; while the female server is allowed to wear a sleeveless mini-dress on the 30 degree day in a hot restaurant/kitchen, the guy is stuck wearing, hot dress shoes, long pants, shirt buttoned to the top and a necktie. You either deal with it, or move on.

I've worked in offices and they're all like that. Women can get away with wearing pretty much anything that's comfortable (as long as it looks presentable), the men still have to long pants and wear suits. I'm sure there are no men out there petty enough to run to the media about it.

Which is exactly how it goes in every office.

Then why are they mentioning Moxies and Hooters? Hooters doesn't have high heels, shirts or cleavage (unless the girl chooses a too small shirt) and Ive seen girls at Moxies wearing boots and blouses buttoned to the top. The girls at twin peaks wear cargo shorts and hiking boots - yes, some cleavage (again, depends on size of shirt they wear and bra). I think they are making the point about dressing sexually in general.

At Hooters they wear the standard outfit (tank top and shorts,leg warmers and running shoes), every now and then you see a few wearing the football shirt. What should the girls be wearing if not the uniform? As for Moxies, I see them all dressed similar but different - some showing more, some less (wearing what they choose to buy and wear). It seems at Moxies that the important thing is looking clean and attractive. What's wrong with that?

Yeah, I can't imagine that a lot of servers making 12$hr + 15-20$hr in tips want the feminist politicians stepping in to protect their honour.

Ok WCR, Suppose a woman goes to work as a teacher or bank teller dressed like a waitress from Twin Peaks and gets reprimanded. Who do you side with? Do you, as you did here claim she's dressed sluttty or is she empowered? You see, I think you'd choose the side of the woman and claim discrimination, I think you ramble on about how "she should be able to wear whatever she wants", how it's "the perverted male boss sexualizing a woman for her clothing choice". If she's a waitress getting tips, she's being manipulated and exploited, if a male boss gives discipline, she's the hard done by victim who is simply expressing herself. In other words, unlike Kimmy, you don't think out the issue, you simply find out how the woman is a victim and change your argument accordingly, and those that disagree are somehow against women and women's issues.

Personally, it's kinda dumb that a waitress gives a guy a wink and a smile, shows some clevage and he drops a bigger tip. I think whole dance is rather silly, but it works for both party's so who am I to criticize

I don't agree with the sexy dress for minors - of course! That said, I don't find Hooters outfits to be sexy dress, and as i mentioned, Moxies girls can dress nice without being sexy.

Ok WCR, here's the breakdown; I've argued many issues with you and you you're all about women's empowerment, from the stampede slut to naked little girls at the pool to Caitlyn Jenner it's always about the strength and empowerment of women. Yet here you are trying to stop women from dressing provocatively at work - calling it slutty. If I trashed what these women were/are wearing in downtown Vancouver, and called it slutty, you'd be all over me with "what right do you have telling her how to dress". So...the issue we have he is simple, you don't really care how they dress, you care only that they are told how they should dress - you're presuming that it's a man telling a young female how to dress...and that they are dressing that way presumably for the benefit of other men - and that burns you. That is probably what burns the woman who instigated the topic too. So...The law that you'd like is a law that states that no man should ever dictate or even question what a woman is wearing.

You're assuming that the work conditions are bad, I say they're not. I worry more about the fact that some of them have bare legs in a kitchen - now, that's a cause I could get behind. I say, these are adult women, making an adult choice to dress and work and make the best money they can. Like was mentioned earlier, when women apply at an establishment, they know exactly what the dress standards are. For somebody always concerned for women's rights, you sure want to take away those rights quickly enough. Are you suggesting that women aren't smart enough or capable of making their own decisions, that we need to bring in a law telling them what they can and can't wear to work?

Why should we stop her from making a living this way?

Oh , I know - totally gouche! And, typical stereotyping too.

No, I'm serious! Hooters is tank top, shorts and leggings - no belly button showing. Twin Peaks is Cargo shorts with plaid shirt tied to show belly button, Moxies is generally just whatever she has as long as it's black and looks good. I've seen many Moxie girls, some wear shoes, some boots, some skirts, some pants whatever...

Especially since for the most part, this is how most of these girls dress outside of their job too.

I'm sure some are. I also know for a fact that most of these waitresses are just working for their daily pay and want to make as much as possible for their days work. Most of them are paying their rent, their car and doing a little partying after work - and are looking no further down the road than that. Good job, good tips, little to no education needed. Why would an attractive woman want to work at white spot and make less - way less for doing the exact same job as someone working at Hooters or Twin Peaks. I guarantee you that given the option, most girls would choose the push-up bra, skirt and big tips over the sport bra, sneakers and low tips. As I said earlier; people generally do what works for them.

You're really sticking to the college girls thing eh?

What posses you to make a comment like this? It makes no sense. I'm sure some are educating themselves, and i'm sure many are not. I'm sure many of these girls are waitressing to simply earn as much money in the day as she can - like most everyone else. I could make the argument that the girls who work at these places do so because they know that with their looks and body, they can rake in more money than if they work at a "white spot". And, therefore choose to work at Moxies or whatever. As for the "message", here's a good message; "look daughter, if you don't want to wait tables dressed in a skimpy outfit - get an education".

You use the word "sluts", but how many waitresses like to dress that way at work? I'd say the vast majority of them. The Hooters girls wear shorts and tank top - is this slut wear?

As long as my waitress is wearing 15 pieces of flair, I have no complaints.

Don't worry about it, I've already agreed that that type of request...or suggestion is over the line. There is a big difference between dressing sexy and airing out the old woohoo.

I've read it, now you've made me read it twice just to make sure. They're talking about cleavage and skirts...and heels, i suppose. I didn't read anything about underwear.

I'll agree that that's over the line. But, I don't think that's the issue here.