Putin blasts U.S.

[Catchme]

Some in the media are calling Putin's hard line stance against the uSA today in Germany, shades of the Cold War.

And it seems Russia, unlike some here, is taking USA's actions against Iran seriously. Though Putin has no room to talk, but I guess at least he never considered using nukes!

Much like the Russian General said a couple of weeks backs, and linked here today in the Iran thread, cranked up rhetoric against Muslims and Iran, filling the publics minds with lies, war mongering propaganda as far from the truth as Iraq was, will lead into an attack upon Iran.

However, Putin is clearly putting Russia into play with his comments.

Munich, Germany — Russian President Vladimir Putin blasted the United States Saturday for the "almost uncontained" use of force in the world, and for encouraging other countries to acquire nuclear weapons.

In what his spokesman acknowledged were his harshest attacks on the U.S. since taking office in 2000, Mr. Putin also criticized U.S. plans for missile defence systems and NATO's expansion.

Mr. Putin told a security forum attracting top officials that "we are witnessing an almost uncontained hyper use of force in international relations" and that "one state, the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way.

"This is very dangerous, nobody feels secure any more

and then there was this:

Mr. Putin said: "I don't want to accuse anyone of being aggressive" but suggested it would seriously change the balance of power and could provoke an unspecified response.

"That balance will be upset completely and one side will have a feeling of complete security and given a free hand in local, and probably in global, conflicts..." he said. "We need to respond to this."

Let's hope they can now come to some diplomatic consensus at this conference, Russia has laid its cards onm the table.

Putin draws line in sand at European conference

[August1991]

Putin is playing to his hometown audience.

[Catchme]

Can plainly see you did not read the link.

Munich Germany is NOT Putin's "home town crowd". Far from it.

Moreover, there are 240 or so leaders and delegates from all over the world, attending said conference, reading the link really does keep you informed as to correct knowledge.

There will surely be many more statements from other world leaders coming out this week end.

However, Putin's actually is the one that means the most, as they, Russia, can actually back up their shots across the bow. Another Cold War between the US and Russia could well kick start the Russian economy.

[Argus]

Some in the media are calling Putin's hard line stance against the uSA today in Germany, shades of the Cold War.

And it seems Russia, unlike some here, is taking USA's actions against Iran seriously.

It never ceases to amuse me how those on the left so actively anti-capitalist don't see the same incentives for any other state in what those states say or do.

Why is Russia attacking the US? Money. Money. Money. The Russians are making money in Iran. The Russians are working with Iran on their oil development. The Russians are selling Iran military equipment. The Russians are selling Iran nuclear equipment.

People on the left consistently demonize everything America does by insisting their motivation is only profit, yet ignore the same motivation of other states. As in the case of the Iraq invasion, where the US was accused of wanting Iraqi oil, yet Russia, Germany and France were presumed to be acting out of only the most noble of motives in trying to forestall such an invasion - as if they were not acting entirely out of self interest for their business stake in the country! China actively defends Sudan from the rest of the world while it engages in genocide, but no one seems to take that personally, even though their motive is - oil.

Vladimir Putin is a man who drips blood wherever he goes. His own secret police orchestrated the notorious bomb attacks on Moscow apartment buildings in order to justify his new war of butchery against Chechnia. He has jailed and murdered his internal opposition, destroyed freedom of speech, run all independent media out of business, brought back the old days of putting government critics into mental institutions, and crushed democracy in its infancy in Russia. Oh, and not incidentally, made a vast fortune out of the oil for food scandal and the takeover of Russia's oil corporations. If this is a man to whom you would look to for moral guidance about world behaviour you are in serious trouble.

[sharkman]

Catchme, in your first post you said you guess Putin never considered using nukes. You are trying to read his mind, you have no idea what he's considered. He just doesn't say everything he thinks about.

BTW, you don't have to be in your hometown to play to them.

Putin's comments on the US, however could well be used on himself. His use of force has become scary. And now he uses the excuse that the US has put missle defence (I think it's Patriot missile batteries, which shoot down incoming missiles) in Europe to start building more of his own missiles. That kind of logic is not trustworthy. I don't know why you continue to listen to this guy. Listen to his actions instead.

[August1991]

Can plainly see you did not read the link.

Munich Germany is NOT Putin's "home town crowd". Far from it.

Moreover, there are 240 or so leaders and delegates from all over the world, attending said conference, reading the link really does keep you informed as to correct knowledge.

Has it ever occurred to you that a politician can speak more directly to his/her home crowd when speaking from abroad? In some cases, it is more effective. (One of Pierre Trudeau's more eloquent speeches on Canadian federalism - intended for Canadians - was given before the US Congress in Washington.)

Putin was primarily speaking to his home audience.

[Catchme]

Well, I guess the "home town crowd" is responding to Putin's shot across the bow.

So much for those trying to discount Putin's words and discount that he was telling the USA and Israel to stop what they are doing by planning to attack Iran with nukes.

And of course they have stated they would use nukes, upon Iran, there are even links to their words here at mapleleaf forums in other threads, and I am sure all have read them. So there is no use saying otherwise, such a pretense is obvious.

Putins words:

In his speech Saturday, Mr. Putin blamed U.S. foreign policy for inciting other countries to seek nuclear weapons to defend themselves from an “almost uncontained use of military force.”

The Russian leader said “unilateral, illegitimate actions have not solved a single problem, they have become a hotbed of further conflicts” and that “one state, the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way.”

‘

One Cold War is enough' says new Pentagon chief

MUNICH, Germany — Pentagon chief Robert Gates responded Sunday to Vladimir Putin's assault on U.S. foreign policy by saying “one Cold War is enough” and that he would go to Moscow to try to reduce tensions...“We all face many common problems and challenges that must be addressed in partnership with other countries, including Russia,” said Mr. Gates. “One Cold War was quite enough.”

USA takes Putin seriously

Oh, I would not be too hasty condemning Putin for blood dripping off of his hands, just take a look at the Bush regimes hands before you cast stones. And if Israel nukes Iran, blood will be dripping from Canadians hands too.

.

[Fortunata]

It never ceases to amuse me how those on the left

And it never fails to amuse me how the left is categorized and generalized as though they had no differences of opinion. Hmmmmm is that how the far right works?

As far as Putin is concerned, it is time that someone put a stop (or try at least) to Bush. The rhetoric is ramping up and there doesn't seem to be any opposition coming from anywhere in the west. Steve will go along with whatever Bush decides so that counts us out to stand up for peace and freedom in the world.

[GostHacked]

It never ceases to amuse me how those on the left

And it never fails to amuse me how the left is categorized and generalized as though they had no differences of opinion. Hmmmmm is that how the far right works?

As far as Putin is concerned, it is time that someone put a stop (or try at least) to Bush. The rhetoric is ramping up and there doesn't seem to be any opposition coming from anywhere in the west. Steve will go along with whatever Bush decides so that counts us out to stand up for peace and freedom in the world.

The right always slams the left. And always in the same way. The real lefties let the right rant, then stare blankley at the screen, for you know what he is thinking.

I will point this out again:

The Left - Asks questions when something does not seem right.

The Right - Slams the left for being unpatriotic/racist/ignorant/anti-semite for asking those questions.

So, consider me on the left then. Best thing to do is ignore the right altogether. The less attention they get, the faster they go away (but the right is stubborn and well, does not quite go away.

Anyways my two bits on this amount to a few pennies. Putin has a right to slam Bush and the USA. Suck it up buttercups. Not everyone wants 'freedom'.

[Wilber]

It never ceases to amuse me how those on the left

And it never fails to amuse me how the left is categorized and generalized as though they had no differences of opinion. Hmmmmm is that how the far right works?

As far as Putin is concerned, it is time that someone put a stop (or try at least) to Bush. The rhetoric is ramping up and there doesn't seem to be any opposition coming from anywhere in the west. Steve will go along with whatever Bush decides so that counts us out to stand up for peace and freedom in the world.

Be honest, thats the way many on both sides work.

Americans will put an end to Bush all by themselves in 20 months. That is guaranteed. Congress will make life difficult for him until then. Putin may be there for the next 20 years for all we know.

One thing Putin is not standing up for is freedom. However, the Russians do have reason to be nervous about the lack of peace in this region. It is right on their back door.

[sharkman]

The right always slams the left. And always in the same way. The real lefties let the right rant, then stare blankley at the screen, for you know what he is thinking.

I will point this out again:

The Left - Asks questions when something does not seem right.

The Right - Slams the left for being unpatriotic/racist/ignorant/anti-semite for asking those questions.

So, consider me on the left then. Best thing to do is ignore the right altogether. The less attention they get, the faster they go away (but the right is stubborn and well, does not quite go away.

Anyways my two bits on this amount to a few pennies. Putin has a right to slam Bush and the USA. Suck it up buttercups. Not everyone wants 'freedom'.

I must beg to differ with your characterization of the left. They do not merely ask questions. They try to change the mind's of all dissenters, as if only they have the one true path to the situation. Not all but the majority. It's rather trying.

[Catchme]

It never ceases to amuse me how those on the left

And it never fails to amuse me how the left is categorized and generalized as though they had no differences of opinion. Hmmmmm is that how the far right works?

As far as Putin is concerned, it is time that someone put a stop (or try at least) to Bush. The rhetoric is ramping up and there doesn't seem to be any opposition coming from anywhere in the west. Steve will go along with whatever Bush decides so that counts us out to stand up for peace and freedom in the world.

Yes, I think it is, they try to impose that upon all who do not think like they do.

Truly what amazes/amuses me, is some's inability to acknowledge facts when they are presented. It gets trying when they try to use personal opinion against facts on the ground and then try to convince people their personal opinion is better than facts. Yes, it is certainly trying alright.

The unfortunate thing about Steve going along is that now he implicates all canadians.

Really glad to see Putin denounce Bush et al so strongly, no matter his reasons. Bush eta als reason are no better and much worse in many cases it seems.

[Argus]

It never ceases to amuse me how those on the left

And it never fails to amuse me how the left is categorized and generalized as though they had no differences of opinion. Hmmmmm is that how the far right works?

Yes. The far right does tend to have a reasonable unanimity of opinion. And the left - operates much like the far right in that it accepts no contrary opinions. The Left believes that its political viewpoints and opinions are based on superior morality. Therefore anyone who disagrees is immoral.

As far as Putin is concerned, it is time that someone put a stop (or try at least) to Bush.

Put in is a murderer, a thief, a liar, and a war criminal. And apparently there are people on this site who would far rather stand alongside him than Bush.

[Argus]

Truly what amazes/amuses me, is some's inability to acknowledge facts when they are presented.

Perhaps some of us look askance at people who clearly can't differentiate between "facts" as presented in an accredited journal and "facts" as cited by Doctor Seuss.

[Argus]

Anyways my two bits on this amount to a few pennies. Putin has a right to slam Bush and the USA. Suck it up buttercups. Not everyone wants 'freedom'.

Fine. Suppose we take yours away since you apparently don't consider it very important.

[Argus]

Oh, I would not be too hasty condemning Putin for blood dripping off of his hands, just take a look at the Bush regimes hands before you cast stones. And if Israel nukes Iran, blood will be dripping from Canadians hands too.

.

When the FBI sets off bombs in apartment buildings in order to blame it on his political enemies and launch a war you'll have a point.

As for Israel nuking Iran. The only way that will happen is if people like you get your wish and Iran gets nukes, or gets close to getting nukes. So if Iran is nuked it will be on YOUR head.

[Catchme]

Oh, I would not be too hasty condemning Putin for blood dripping off of his hands, just take a look at the Bush regimes hands before you cast stones. And if Israel nukes Iran, blood will be dripping from Canadians hands too.

When the FBI sets off bombs in apartment buildings in order to blame it on his political enemies and launch a war you'll have a point.

As for Israel nuking Iran. The only way that will happen is if people like you get your wish and Iran gets nukes, or gets close to getting nukes. So if Iran is nuked it will be on YOUR head.

Noticed that you used the FBI as your example, as opposed to the CIA, as we aALL know the CIA has done much than blow up apartment buildings.

And BTW who blew up apartments that you are speaking about? Certainly NOT Iran.

As for the spurious commentary that it will be upon our heads, if Israel/USA nukes Iran, it is so outrageous that it needs NO consideration.

[scribblet]

As for Israel nuking Iran. The only way that will happen is if people like you get your wish and Iran gets nukes, or gets close to getting nukes. So if Iran is nuked it will be on YOUR head.

Agreed !!

I guess the anti Israel/U.S. types are having orgasms over Putin's comments, you'd think he was running for the Liberal or NDP leadership LOL

[margrace]

You Know when the wall came down in Berlin I had two thoughts. Now all those people, espcially the Germans would be free again. That was wonderful. But on the other hand I realized that evil as the Soviet government was it was a balance.

My greatest fear was that now there was no one to keep the free world from turning into what it has become. Everything has a balance Good and Evil, Black and White, this is how the world works. It would be nice if everyone minded their own business, were happy with their vine and fig tree and didn't need to have more than the Jones. That is where the trouble is.

[Argus]

You Know when the wall came down in Berlin I had two thoughts. Now all those people, espcially the Germans would be free again. That was wonderful. But on the other hand I realized that evil as the Soviet government was it was a balance.

My greatest fear was that now there was no one to keep the free world from turning into what it has become. Everything has a balance Good and Evil, Black and White, this is how the world works. It would be nice if everyone minded their own business, were happy with their vine and fig tree and didn't need to have more than the Jones. That is where the trouble is.

So you're wishing we had more evil in the world???

[Black Dog]

People on the left consistently demonize everything America does by insisting their motivation is only profit, yet ignore the same motivation of other states. As in the case of the Iraq invasion, where the US was accused of wanting Iraqi oil, yet Russia, Germany and France were presumed to be acting out of only the most noble of motives in trying to forestall such an invasion - as if they were not acting entirely out of self interest for their business stake in the country! China actively defends Sudan from the rest of the world while it engages in genocide, but no one seems to take that personally, even though their motive is - oil.

How many of those countries do these things in the name of democracy?

Western European states clearly do not reject the relevance of morality and political ideology to the conduct of foreign policy. They do, however, see the goal of foreign policy as the advancement of the major and continuing security and economic interests of their state. Political principles provide limits and parameters to foreign policy but not to its goals. As a result European public debate over morality versus power in foreign policy has except in rare instances not played the role that it has in the United States.

...

For most Americans, however, foreign-policy goals should reflect not only the security interests of the nation and the economic interests of key groups within the nation but also the political values and principles that define American identity. If these values do define foreign-policy goals, then that policy is morally justified, the opponents of that policy at home and abroad are morally illegitimate, and all efforts must be directed toward overcoming the opponents and achieving the goals.

Linky

IOW: it's the hypocrisy, stupid.

Let me say, however, that I agree that there is, in some circles, a tendancy towards knee-jerk support of anyone deemed contra the U.S.A. Such reflexive behaviour is generally the result of ignorance or monomania and should be rewarded with a swift kick in the ass.

[Catchme]

People on the left consistently demonize everything America does by insisting their motivation is only profit, yet ignore the same motivation of other states. As in the case of the Iraq invasion, where the US was accused of wanting Iraqi oil, yet Russia, Germany and France were presumed to be acting out of only the most noble of motives in trying to forestall such an invasion - as if they were not acting entirely out of self interest for their business stake in the country! China actively defends Sudan from the rest of the world while it engages in genocide, but no one seems to take that personally, even though their motive is - oil.

How many of those countries do these things in the name of democracy?

IOW: it's the hypocrisy, stupid.

Let me say, however, that I agree that there is, in some circles, a tendancy towards knee-jerk support of anyone deemed contra the U.S.A. Such reflexive behaviour is generally the result of ignorance or monomania and should be rewarded with a swift kick in the ass.

I would say both in some cases!

[margrace]

You Know when the wall came down in Berlin I had two thoughts. Now all those people, espcially the Germans would be free again. That was wonderful. But on the other hand I realized that evil as the Soviet government was it was a balance.

My greatest fear was that now there was no one to keep the free world from turning into what it has become. Everything has a balance Good and Evil, Black and White, this is how the world works. It would be nice if everyone minded their own business, were happy with their vine and fig tree and didn't need to have more than the Jones. That is where the trouble is.

So you're wishing we had more evil in the world???

So are you saying that having 5000sq houses, driving gas guzzling and polluting cars, living in dream worlds such as some of the idiotic shows on tv, turning our green countryside into pavement, putting up a big show to prove that I am richer than you etc is not evil?

[Catchme]

You Know when the wall came down in Berlin I had two thoughts. Now all those people, espcially the Germans would be free again. That was wonderful. But on the other hand I realized that evil as the Soviet government was it was a balance.

My greatest fear was that now there was no one to keep the free world from turning into what it has become. Everything has a balance Good and Evil, Black and White, this is how the world works. It would be nice if everyone minded their own business, were happy with their vine and fig tree and didn't need to have more than the Jones. That is where the trouble is.

So you're wishing we had more evil in the world???

So are you saying that having 5000sq houses, driving gas guzzling and polluting cars, living in dream worlds such as some of the idiotic shows on tv, turning our green countryside into pavement, putting up a big show to prove that I am richer than you etc is not evil?

But margrace, some people's bank accounts are getting greener, as the world grows deader and browner, surely it is an equal balance?

What is truly evil, is wanting to destroy 100's of thousands if not millions of people, to keep the lifestyle you mention.

[Argus]

You Know when the wall came down in Berlin I had two thoughts. Now all those people, espcially the Germans would be free again. That was wonderful. But on the other hand I realized that evil as the Soviet government was it was a balance.

My greatest fear was that now there was no one to keep the free world from turning into what it has become. Everything has a balance Good and Evil, Black and White, this is how the world works. It would be nice if everyone minded their own business, were happy with their vine and fig tree and didn't need to have more than the Jones. That is where the trouble is.

So you're wishing we had more evil in the world???

So are you saying that having 5000sq houses, driving gas guzzling and polluting cars, living in dream worlds such as some of the idiotic shows on tv, turning our green countryside into pavement, putting up a big show to prove that I am richer than you etc is not evil?

Uh, yes, that is what I'm saying. Apparently you don't understand what the word means.