Carter counts Israeli nukes

[Leafless]

Former US president Jimmy Carter has said Israel holds at least 150 nuclear weapons, the first time a US president has publicly acknowledged the Jewish state's atomic arsenal.

A former Israeli military intelligence chief criticised Carter's comments and said they would do more harm than good.

"It seems to me that in his last tour of the country and the region, he was apparently so offended that he thought it proper to say things which I think are irresponsible," said Aharon Zeevi-Farkash.

"The problem is that there are those who can use these statements when it comes to discussing the international effort to prevent Iran getting nuclear weapons," he said.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/world...1653974065.html

What a dumb thing to say relating to Jimmy Carter's Middle East peace mission.

Or what he is really meaning to say is that Middle East peace is doomed forever.

[BubberMiley]

Sometimes the truth is stupid.

[Topaz]

I still say there will not be peace in the Middle-East unless those countries really want it and the west stays out of Middle-east affairs unless they are asked for their opinion!

[sharkman]

Sometimes the truth is stupid.

Check this for stupid, Carter is not referred to as a former US president, but as a president. Also in the stupid column, Carter hazards a guess, based no doubt on paranoid delusion from anti-semites like Hamas. Carter gets duped again.

[Leafless]

Sometimes the truth is stupid.

Then maybe he should go back home and do what he does best....GROW PEANUTS.

[bush_cheney2004]

Check this for stupid, Carter is not referred to as a former US president, but as a president. Also in the stupid column, Carter hazards a guess, based no doubt on paranoid delusion from anti-semites like Hamas. Carter gets duped again.

There is no fool like an old fool. Former President Carter is much better qualified to count hostages than nuclear warheads in Israel.

[GostHacked]

It has been an open secret that Israel has nuclear weapons. The amount was always speculated, because there apparently is no evidence to support it. Yet we can determine that Iran is in the process of building nukes.

Any investigation into Israel is prompty voted down by the US in the UN. The US vetos in Israel's favour, always have, always will.

[HisSelf]

I still say there will not be peace in the Middle-East unless those countries really want it and the west stays out of Middle-east affairs unless they are asked for their opinion!

Or their money, right ? It's about time somebody brought Israel's big nuclear "secret" out in the open. If Israel doesn't have nukes, why is it hounding Mordecai Vannunu to death? It is remarkable that the US and Israel keep hollering about Iranian nukes (which do not exist) when this sort of thing is sitting like a big steaming road apple in the middle of the most volatile region in the world.

Jimmy Carter is the first guy with any credible inside knowledge willing to call a spade a spade. Good for him.

[sharkman]

It was never an issue as to whether Israel had nukes or not. Jimmy doesn't have any inside info, he's simply once again going way over his head and pay grade because he's an anti-semite. He doesn't even know if it is a spade.

[DogOnPorch]

Israel might or might not have nukes. One thing we're sure about is that Israel has never tested one which is a key part of the weapon system to begin with. Do they work? Name one other nuclear capable country that supposedly has the bomb yet hasn't bothered to see if they actually work.

Nuclear weapons aren't simple and unless someone gave Israel working, tested warheads there is real doubt as to their functionality. Also, to many...a nuke is a nuke. Are these 150 nuclear weapons fission or fusion types? Kiloton or megaton? A mix? Missile deployed? Aircraft deployed? Who knows? Jimmy Carter?

Somehow, I doubt it....

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The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world.

---Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

[GostHacked]

It was never an issue as to whether Israel had nukes or not. Jimmy doesn't have any inside info, he's simply once again going way over his head and pay grade because he's an anti-semite. He doesn't even know if it is a spade.

Oh those Jews would have ripped him apart right there and then. Also, Israel does not invite anti-semites to dinner and pay their way at the same time. So, do you know what a diamond is?

Dog on Porch

Nuclear weapons aren't simple and unless someone gave Israel working, tested warheads there is real doubt as to their functionality. Also, to many...a nuke is a nuke. Are these 150 nuclear weapons fission or fusion types? Kiloton or megaton? A mix? Missile deployed? Aircraft deployed? Who knows? Jimmy Carter?

The US has delivered many high grade weapons to Israel. Bunker busters, patriot missle batteries, and yes I will say nuclear weapons. Since the US is Israel's closest ally, one can easily see that the US will give what it can to protect Israel. This is why it is seemed as an open secret. They never needed to test them, because whoever gave them to Israel has already done the extensive testing.

Small nuke, big nuke, they are still WMDs. A few hundred thousand, a few million... meh.

[HisSelf]

I cannot believe there are still people who deny that Israel has nuclear weapons. The Emporer's new clothes? I think so.

[DogOnPorch]

Oh those Jews would have ripped him apart right there and then. Also, Israel does not invite anti-semites to dinner and pay their way at the same time. So, do you know what a diamond is?

Dog on Porch

The US has delivered many high grade weapons to Israel. Bunker busters, patriot missle batteries, and yes I will say nuclear weapons. Since the US is Israel's closest ally, one can easily see that the US will give what it can to protect Israel. This is why it is seemed as an open secret. They never needed to test them, because whoever gave them to Israel has already done the extensive testing.

Small nuke, big nuke, they are still WMDs. A few hundred thousand, a few million... meh.

So the US gave Israel its nuclear weapons? Care to back that up with a source? What kind? When were they given...etc? Were they sold to Israel? Free gift? What?

I cannot believe there are still people who deny that Israel has nuclear weapons. The Emporer's new clothes? I think so.

Again...where are these weapons? What kind are they? Air deployable...missile deployable...etc. Plus, it's not a matter of denying if these weapons exist...it's that they do not follow the pattern of those who developed their own nukes, which is what most of us assume happened...not Gosthacked. Why no Israeli tests? We'd know if they did one...even underground. This makes their nuclear stockpile just as suspect to the Israelis as the rest of the planet...and you know that. It also keeps open the notion that Israel's nukes are possibly just a paper tiger...only existing on paper and in the minds of Israel's enemies.

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In early 1968, the CIA issued a report concluding that Israel had successfully started production of nuclear weapons. This estimate, however, was based on an informal conversation between Carl Duckett, head of the CIA's Office of Science and Technology, and Edward Teller, father of the hydrogen bomb. Teller said that, based on conversations with friends in the Israeli scientific and defense establishment, he had concluded that Israel was capable of building the bomb, and that the CIA should not wait for an Israeli test to make a final assessment because that test would never be carried out.

---FAS.org

[M.Dancer]

Dog on Porch

The US has delivered many high grade weapons to Israel. Bunker busters, patriot missle batteries, and yes I will say nuclear weapons.

tinfoil futures on the rise....

[bush_cheney2004]

The US has delivered many high grade weapons to Israel. Bunker busters, patriot missle batteries, and yes I will say nuclear weapons.....

Really? The record shows that the US "has delivered" nuclear weapons to Canada...not Israel!

[DogOnPorch]

tinfoil futures on the rise....

Indeed. What Mr Gosthacked doesn't seem to know is that nuclear weapons have a shelf life. So this gift must be one that keeps on giving. When was that last shipment of US nuclear weapons to Israel anyways? And again...what type? Fission or fusion? Megaton or kiloton yields? Air deployable or missile deployable...or other? Etc, etc, etc. It's all very easy to treat nukes like a ham-sandwich that you can share with your friends...but what's the reality of the situation rather than the speculation?

BC-2004 has dealt with these items in person and perhaps could shine further light as to the care and feeding of these critters.

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If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.

---Gen. Curtis Lemay

Edited May 28, 2008 by DogOnPorch

[Leafless]

Indeed. What Mr Gosthacked doesn't seem to know is that nuclear weapons have a shelf life. So this gift must be one that keeps on giving. When was that last shipment of US nuclear weapons to Israel anyways? And again...what type? Fission or fusion? Megaton or kiloton yields? Air deployable or missile deployable...or other? Etc, etc, etc. It's all very easy to treat nukes like a ham-sandwich that you can share with your friends...but what's the reality of the situation rather than the speculation?

BC-2004 has dealt with these items in person and perhaps could shine further light as to the care and feeding of these critters.

--------------------------------------------------------

If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting.

---Gen. Curtis Lemay

It seems France had more of a role with Israel becoming a nuclear weapon state and the Dimona nuclear facility.

It appears the U.S. were down the backs of Israel and their potential nuke development but was interrupted with the assassination of JFK and President Johnston was less committed to non-proliferation in general relating to Israel and nuclear weaons.

It also appears Israel for the most part developed its own nuclear weapons but without testing suggest its nuclear weapons were tested obviously by someone else and they had first hand information on nuclear weapon construction.

This is an interesting article.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Isr...lear/index.html

Edited May 28, 2008 by Leafless

[bush_cheney2004]

Indeed. What Mr Gosthacked doesn't seem to know is that nuclear weapons have a shelf life. So this gift must be one that keeps on giving. When was that last shipment of US nuclear weapons to Israel anyways? And again...what type? Fission or fusion? Megaton or kiloton yields? Air deployable or missile deployable...or other? Etc, etc, etc....

Nuclear weapons are a high maintenance pain in the ass.....they are very fussy about their environment, arming, fuzing, safing, and security to maintain rated reliabity and yield. The US has delivered SSBN missiles to the UK, but they had to come up with their own warheads (re-entry bodies)...developed with US help / components. And we have already discussed US nukes for Canada up until 1984, and many deployments to Europe for NATO, from artillery shells to GLCMs and Pershings. Each branch of service wanted a piece of the action!

Israel is perfectly capable of building nuclear weapons, and even mentored South Africa. But to Dog's point, it has not actually tested one that has been detected by VELA satellite, seismic tremor, or radiation. A CIA analyst would have to assume such capability bounded by Dimona output, enrichment capability, and probability/confidence levels. That's where the assumed bomb counts come from.

Hell, we don't even know for sure if the DPRK has a single nuclear warhead (that works). Trinity baby!

Edited May 28, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

Israel's nuclear program reads like a James Bond novel. I'm not even saying they don't have something buried in the Negrev waiting for the next foolish Arab army to come a-calling. My point is that these weapons are untested and could well go fizzzzzz rather than an Earth shattering ka-boom! Might need 150 of them just to get one to explode properly. There's a reason the US blew up the Marshall Islands for years and years...

Good article, Leafless...it mentions a point I'm trying to make re: paper deterrents. Saddam is thought not to have used SCUDs w/ VX nerve agent on Israel back in Gulf War 1 because of the threat of Israel's still unseen nuclear weapons.

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Villager 1: We have found a witch. May we burn her?

Crowd: Burn her! Burn! Burn her! Burn her!

Sir Bedevere: How do you know she is a witch?

Villager 2: She looks like one!

---Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[DogOnPorch]

Agreement, BC-2004...must have posted at the same time.

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Yo-ho-ho...Green Giant

[bush_cheney2004]

Israel's nuclear program reads like a James Bond novel. I'm not even saying they don't have something buried in the Negrev waiting for the next foolish Arab army to come a-calling....

Clearly, non NPT Israel cannot openly display nuclear weapons muscle for a host of reasons. But she also cannot permit any regional power to be stronger, because she lives in a rough neighborhood. Testing would only spur a regional arms race.

The biggest contributor to any Israeli nuclear weapons program has been France.

[DogOnPorch]

Clearly, non NPT Israel cannot openly display nuclear weapons muscle for a host of reasons. But she also cannot permit any regional power to be stronger, because she lives in a rough neighborhood. Testing would only spur a regional arms race.

Good point. Put that on the list. Countries like Syria, Iran, Egypt and Pakistan already have advanced chemical/biological weapons programs which are also VERY dangerous. Especially the VX nerve agent programs which some Arab/Muslim countries are apparently interested in...horrible stuff. Makes sarin look like a-walk-in-the-park. It doesn't seem to get the same condemnation from us that Israeli nukes do, though. Odd...what say, Mr Carter?

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Sir Bedevere: What makes you think she is a witch?

Villager 3: Well...she turned me into a newt!

Sir Bedevere: A newt?? (raises visor higher)

Villager 3: ...got better.

---Monty Python and the Holy Grail

[GostHacked]

Leafless.

You are correct about France giving Israel nuclear technology. I am mistaken there. Man how many of you can admit to mistakes. Anyone? Beuler?

BC .. Dancer. Dogporch.

But if it is AOK for Israel to have nukes, then it is AOK for anyone else to have them. What? You don't like that you say? Wanna see my care face?? Wanna see their care faces?

VX never gas has a way shorter life span than any nuclear weapon. It is the kind of thing you make now, use now. Nukes, you can sit on a bit. More expensive, but at least you can rattle some sabres.

[DogOnPorch]

GH: VX never gas has a way shorter life span than any nuclear weapon. It is the kind of thing you make now, use now. Nukes, you can sit on a bit. More expensive, but at least you can rattle some sabres.

VX is actually an area denial weapon with a very, very long half life (that's what the 'V' stands for). It clings to surfaces as an oily film. So it really isn't a true gas. But, it does partially vaporize under certain conditions (sunlight being one) then condenses back onto solid surfaces when cooler. It's often kept in a stable bianary form rather than a ready to go mixture...ie: two parts in a shell or warhead. VX is VERY hard to clean-up. An attack on say, Manhattan, would render it unlivable for literally decades. Both the US and Russia are busy destroying their stocks at various special locations if they haven't already. They both view it as a 'white elephant' in terms of useful weapons.

The double wammy about VX is that it takes only a fraction of a drop to kill you dead...10mg or so. Your baby-fingertip on an partially contaminated surface, perhaps. Effects of VX intoxication occur with even smaller doses. Atropine is the so-called antidote to VX (those auto-injectors on thighs you may have seen) is, unfortunately, also poisonous...just not as poisonous...lol.

The whole WMD thing about Iraq was more over this vicious stuff rather than A-Bombs.

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You want a friend in Washington? Get a dog.

---Harry S Truman

[DogOnPorch]

BC .. Dancer. Dogporch.

But if it is AOK for Israel to have nukes, then it is AOK for anyone else to have them. What? You don't like that you say? Wanna see my care face?? Wanna see their care faces?

I don't decide who has nuclear weapons on this planet. But, I don't think certain nations led by religious theocracies with an eye on the afterlife are the best wards of these weapons, if you wish an honest answer. Do you?

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President Merkin Muffley: General Turgidson, I find this very difficult to understand. I was under the impression that I was the only one in authority to order the use of nuclear weapons.

General "Buck" Turgidson: That's right, sir, you are the only person authorized to do so. And although I, uh, hate to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to look like, uh, General Ripper exceeded his authority.

---Dr Strangelove