Recession

[sharkman]

Yes they'll be in a snit, but at the oil barons who's profits have been sky high. I think the typical Canadian can put two and two together and realize the Tories aren't involved in a world conspiracy to jack up oil prices. Ditto on the record breaking dollar stuffing our manufacturing sector, which has been counting on our weak dollar to keep it competitive for a decade or more.

However, the Liberal party will try mightily to blame Harper for the oil cartels and the weak American dollar.

[Oleg Bach]

Yes they'll be in a snit, but at the oil barons who's profits have been sky high. I think the typical Canadian can put two and two together and realize the Tories aren't involved in a world conspiracy to jack up oil prices. Ditto on the record breaking dollar stuffing our manufacturing sector, which has been counting on our weak dollar to keep it competitive for a decade or more.

However, the Liberal party will try mightily to blame Harper for the oil cartels and the weak American dollar.

Talk about recession, wait till fuel is so expensive that shipping a box of food from Mexico to Toronto is no longer economically feasible. Give it time and their will be mass starvation in America and Canada - our planners have no vision and we are heading to a hellish destination - yes - you say it can not happen here - just wait. You parasites out there with investments waiting to make something out of nothing and enrich your selves through speculation, have a surprise coming also - you in time will starve as will your children - the system is broken - no one creates wealth anymore in the west - they just exchange information that does not provide food and shelter. Talking about the dollar or oil - and staying competitive - what ever the hell that means? Complete with who? - it's over - the days of a huge self serving capitalistic buracracy has had it's day - no we starve - and it serves you parisites right - you can not make something out of nothing...you can fake it for a long time but the house of cards does come crashing down - in time....we have become so unreal we forget what reality is - food and shelter - not stocks!

[socred]

Everything goes in cycles and things have been sizzling along in North America for quite some time.

"By an accounting method of analysis, the conclusion is reached that the value, at the current retail price-level, of goods produced far exceeds the flow of purchasing-power from permanent sources. In other words, recurring periods of business depression are shown to be the result of present financial and business policies." (C.H. Douglas, "Social Credit")

In other words, business cycles do not exist because "everything goes in cycles", but are a result of present financial and business policy.

Edited January 5, 2008 by socred

[sharkman]

So, if present financial and business policy becomes obsolete due to massive bankruptcies and sky high oil and gas prices, I suppose policies would have to change, no?

I have a book that was written about a decade ago that predicts an economic crash in the U.S. It seemed flat wrong in the nineties, but after the dot.com crash, 9/11 changing everything, $100/barrel oil, gold at $800+/oz, a 9 trillion US debt, and the mortgage crisis, a question needs to be asked: How many more hits can the U.S. take?

[eyeball]

I think there are at least two big elephants in this discussion that are also coming home to roost; a burgeoning human population that doesn’t appear to recognize there are any limits to economic growth, and natural ecosystems that have started to reach them. At least part of what we’re all heading towards, not just the US, is the narrowing throat of an ecological bottleneck - the waterhole is drying up and the animals are getting meaner. I think we're on pretty thin ice myself.

Hello by the way, I’m new here although I see a few old associates from other forums I've frequented over the years. I live on Vancouver Island and have been going by the name eyeball on a number of forums (existing and lapsed) for 12 years or so.

[bush_cheney2004]

So, if present financial and business policy becomes obsolete due to massive bankruptcies and sky high oil and gas prices, I suppose policies would have to change, no?

I have a book that was written about a decade ago that predicts an economic crash in the U.S. It seemed flat wrong in the nineties, but after the dot.com crash, 9/11 changing everything, $100/barrel oil, gold at $800+/oz, a 9 trillion US debt, and the mortgage crisis, a question needs to be asked: How many more hits can the U.S. take?

It has taken far worse in the past. Gold hit $850 in 1980.....what would that be today if adjusted for inflation? Ditto oil and debt.

How many hits can Canada take?

[sharkman]

Not as many, but in your response you ignore 9/11, the weak dollar and the mortgage crisis. Combined with record breaking oil and gold, and you may have a perfect storm brewing, which would be an awful turn of events for the whole world.

As for the population point, it's not an issue at this level, that being Canada and the U.S., although on a world level some of the results of a perfect storm would indeed include higher death rates.

[jbg]

It seemed flat wrong in the nineties, but after the dot.com crash, 9/11 changing everything, $100/barrel oil, gold at $800+/oz, a 9 trillion US debt, and the mortgage crisis, a question needs to be asked: How many more hits can the U.S. take?

The answer is "plenty". We have a good resource and productivity base.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not as many, but in your response you ignore 9/11, the weak dollar and the mortgage crisis. Combined with record breaking oil and gold, and you may have a perfect storm brewing, which would be an awful turn of events for the whole world.

Oh...but I did. Methinks you do not appreciate the impact of a weak dollar.....good and bad. Or are too young to recall what a misery index is or anything about the Keating Five.

As for the population point, it's not an issue at this level, that being Canada and the U.S., although on a world level some of the results of a perfect storm would indeed include higher death rates.

Well...let's see....6,000,000,000 and rising. It is a safe bet that higher death rates have not really mattered much except to the dead. America does not worry when Canada has a "recession"....it is another buying opportunity.

Edited January 5, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[sharkman]

I am contemplating a U.S. depression, which would affect the whole world.

[eyeball]

No doubt some country's will be hurt by a US depression, on the other hand some will probably benefit. I don't think the US is as indespensible a nation as believed. My region has had to adapt to far fewer Americans visiting here since 9/11 and buying our lumber and a lot of things are still downright booming. I think America's probably become more dependant on other country's than the other way around.

A worldwide crash might not necessarily be a bad thing. If the economy slows down some ecosystems might get a well earned rest on the other hand impoverished people rarely make good stewards of their regions natural capital. Like I said we're on thin ice.

[Topaz]

It will be interesting to see who does gets the Presidency but I pity who ever it is because they have alot of problems facing them. The Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the nations debt, other domestics prolbems, trying to get respectability back within the world.

[jbg]

Oh...but I did. Methinks you do not appreciate the impact of a weak dollar.....good and bad. Or are too young to recall what a misery index is or anything about the Keating Five.

I remember the "misery index" well from the 1976 campaign. What were the "Keating Five"?

[jbg]

I don't think the US is as indespensible a nation as believed.

If Canadians value a very inexpensive security blanket, and the need not to worry about their safety as a nation from external threats Canada cares a lot what happens to the US.

A worldwide crash might not necessarily be a bad thing. If the economy slows down some ecosystems might get a well earned rest on the other hand impoverished people rarely make good stewards of their regions natural capital. Like I said we're on thin ice.

I am a bankruptcy lawyer who would benefit mightily from a depression. I am not such a knave as to wish that kind of suffering on anyone. Edited January 8, 2008 by jbg

[bush_cheney2004]

I remember the "misery index" well from the 1976 campaign. What were the "Keating Five"?

Keating Five = 1980's Savings and Loan collapse and Congressional scandal.

[Pat Coghlan]

It will be interesting to see who does gets the Presidency but I pity who ever it is because they have alot of problems facing them. The Iraq war, the Afghanistan war, the nations debt, other domestics prolbems, trying to get respectability back within the world.

You forgot the biggest problem - retiring baby boomers - which was going to happen BEFORE all these other problems got added into the mix.

It's gonna be nasty.

[eyeball]

If Canadians value a very inexpensive security blank, and the need not to worry about their safety as a nation from external threats Canada cares a lot what happens to the US.

Don't forget Canada once had the 4th largest army in the world and was well on the way to becoming an areospace power. Our country however caved under US pressure to step aside and leave the projection of North America's military power up to you folks. You wanted the job, you got it and its a little late to be crying about spilt milk now. I'm all for promoting Canada's security and I think we've had a lot more success in acheiving that by projecting a non-threatening friendy face to the world. You don't see many Canadian flags being burned around the world.

It occurs to me to consider in retrospect how fortunate we've been that Diefenbaker and his Tories decided to strangle Canada's military industrial complex in its crib when it did. This left the door open for our government to invest its resources in making Canada a better place to live. You might also notice we aren't saddled with the kind of national debt that leads to a depression.

I am a bankruptcy lawyer who would benefit mightily from a depression. I am not such a knave as to wish that kind of suffering on anyone.

I don't wish that kind of suffering on anyone either, with the exception of your military industrial complex.

[eyeball]

You forgot the biggest problem - retiring baby boomers - which was going to happen BEFORE all these other problems got added into the mix.

It's gonna be nasty.

At least its going to be somewhat more just. It doesn't look like the boomers and their parents will be entirely getting away with their inter-generational theft after all. What's still missing from the 'the mix' is our draw down of natural capital, the producing and recycling capacity of Earth's natural ecosystems. That's what is really going to bite future generations. I suppose they'll adapt but it'll probably be like Easter Island on a global scale. Nice legacy eh?

[bush_cheney2004]

.... I'm all for promoting Canada's security and I think we've had a lot more success in acheiving that by projecting a non-threatening friendy face to the world. You don't see many Canadian flags being burned around the world.

Actually, you do see Canadian flags being burned. Must have something to do with all that "non-threatening friendly" bombing, artillery, and world record sniper shots in the likes of Iraq, Serbia, Haiti, and Afghanistan.

It occurs to me to consider in retrospect how fortunate we've been that Diefenbaker and his Tories decided to strangle Canada's military industrial complex in its crib when it did. This left the door open for our government to invest its resources in making Canada a better place to live. You might also notice we aren't saddled with the kind of national debt that leads to a depression.

No, it lead to economic collapse and record per-capita debt. Even "free" health care got a big haircut.

I don't wish that kind of suffering on anyone either, with the exception of your military industrial complex.

The same military industrial complex that employs Canadians who apparently want to keep their jobs.

[eyeball]

Actually, you do see Canadian flags being burned. Must have something to do with all that "non-threatening friendly" bombing, artillery, and world record sniper shots in the likes of Iraq, Serbia, Haiti, and Afghanistan.

No, it lead to economic collapse and record per-capita debt. Even "free" health care got a big haircut.

I never said Canadian flags weren't being burned just not very many. Perhaps the old flag on a back-pack analogy would have been better.

Its unfortunate we deployed snipers in Afghanistan alright but I wasn't aware of any Canadian snipers being actively deployed elsewhere until now, especially Iraq. I guess I better sew an Icelandic flag or something on my back-pack.

The same military industrial complex that employs Canadians who apparently want to keep their jobs.

Military industrial complexes are the biggest social engineering projects on the planet, the same thing is true about the enforcement industrial complex driving the war on drugs. There is nothing that has ever sucked harder on the public's tits than these evil twins and nothing is leading us to economic collapse faster.

Edited January 7, 2008 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

I never said Canadian flags weren't being burned just not very many. Perhaps the old flag on a back-pack analogy would have been better.

To paraphrase another, "you aren't anybody until somebody burns your flag".

Its unfortunate we deployed snipers in Afghanistan alright but I wasn't aware of any Canadian snipers being actively deployed elsewhere until now, especially Iraq. I guess I better sew an Icelandic flag or something on my back-pack.

No, it's not unfortunate at all, except for the enemy. Best to keep the Canadian public clueless on such matters.

Military industrial complexes are the biggest social engineering projects on the planet, the same thing is true about the enforcement industrial complex driving the war on drugs. There is nothing that has ever sucked harder on the public's tits than these evil twins and nothing is leading us to economic collapse faster.

No, it is actual social programs that is leading the way to "collapse".

[Wilber]

I'm all for promoting Canada's security and I think we've had a lot more success in acheiving that by projecting a non-threatening friendy face to the world. You don't see many Canadian flags being burned around the world.

And who's skirt were we hiding under during the Cold War years?

[eyeball]

And who's skirt were we hiding under during the Cold War years?

Your Momma's I suppose.

I was usually outside playing combat, catching frogs and getting into mischief.

[Wilber]

I was usually outside playing combat, catching frogs and getting into mischief.

Exactly, while someone else looked after the serious stuff.

[Oleg Bach]

Exactly, while someone else looked after the serious stuff.

Recession? What is that - some sort of scheme? As a kid back in 82, I saw a message in the subway "recession coming". I thought how do they know - of course I pondered to myself - they are creating one and conditioning us to accept being robbed severly one more time. What I notice is when the rich can not longer get more rich - they revert to making the poor more poor - Recession reminds my of Gandi - "It is a small man who exaults himself through the belittlement of others" - It's like a natural evolution economically. When you can't go any higher and the market is peaking - you kick the bottom out to make the bottom go lower. All things in our system have limits -

I compare a recession to a man milking a bunch of cows (people) - at first he keeps the milking minimal and manageble so that the poor cows can replenish their milk supply - with greed - you milk the cow untill it's knees wabble - and the thing falls over in weakness - then you have to force a recession before someone finds out that you sickened the cow. There are limits in slavery - you can not work them to death and tell them "Be happy - all are employed" - sometime employment becomes abuse and stresses the nation - because..........their money becomes devalued and the kids go astray because the parents are on the tread mill - I hope we have not a recession but a severe depression that will allow society to re-adjust and regain good values again. Let the whole thing collapse and let the new fuedal lords go broke.

My brother is a craftsman - he just finished working on a house in the Aurora Ontario area - the place has 30 fire places and is worth about 30 million dollars - it is a palace - what has this young man done to deserve such a thing - and how may has he harmed? - There is a new type of fuedalism taking place - and it may be wise to collapse the false economic system before it becomes worse and more intense - we need a government - not more powerful un-elected barbarians to rule us who build palaces in the centre of a subdivision.