I'm officially supporting the Liberals

[mikedavid00]

Hey,

Well I never thought I'd say this, but I am officially supporting the Liberal party here in Ontario and will not vote for the Conservative party here in Ontario. Here's why (link):

The big news here today was that our oposition leader John Tory promised to publicly fund religious based schools much like the seperate school board. Even the left wing radio host was against it. The minister of education from the Liberal party said all this does is support segregation (which I think we all agree on).

Immagine Hindu school for hindu's, Sikh school for Sikhs, and of course, Muslim schools for Muslims. All punblically funded which would have a drastic change in our Canadian culture in the next 15 years.

There are some things you shouldn't pander for votes on. But he knows who's voting in Ontario and all the minority special interest was supporting him during his announcment. He's very serious about it also and will give 400 million right away. The number he feels he can buy votes I guess.

Some things are non negotiable to Canadians and I think this is one. Not one person encouraged this who called the station. Some were Liberals too. Talk about ethnic enclaves - this would take segregation to a new level here in Canada and the world.

Also, John Tory is in favor of banning cel phones from cars. Not even hands free, a complete ban is what he wants. When the issue came up, Dalton McGuinty refused to ban cel phones from vehicles and sided on the personal liberties.

McGuinty did the unpopular thing of re-openning nuclear power plants which took courage becasue the lobby faught so hard to close them down.

And finally, McGuinty said something I wont forget "if you want to help the environment and reduce emissions, then go out and buy a brand new car which will reduce emissions". That was honest and very unpopular thing to say.

When it came to the Christmas tree in the courthouse, he said that banning a Christmas tree was not a true sign of multiculturalism and it went too far. Very unpopular, and honest thing to say.

When I think of John Tory wanting to go down that road of publically funding schools to further segregate Canadians, I'm sorry. I cannot support him and will not be voting for him. I'll make that official right now. McGuinty is no saint, but I think my choice is pretty clear to any Liberal or Conservative voter. He's done an 'ok' job and is heading down the right path for Ontario. I shudder to imagine John's wacky path that he wants to take the province.

[capricorn]

Should this be a topic for Provincial Politics? Just asking.

[mikedavid00]

Should this be a topic for Provincial Politics? Just asking.

Well it's about an issue that effects all of us and our culture. A good conversation piece.

[sharkman]

You mean Ontaria hasn't funded them thus far? Are these of the private variety with high tuition fees, or something else.

[mikedavid00]

You mean Ontaria hasn't funded them thus far? Are these of the private variety with high tuition fees, or something else.

No they haven't in this manner. He's talking fully segregated school boards with public funds. To teach them religion and culture. He used the word 'culture' in one of his interviews. I'm talking elementary, highschool, etc. Full school board and funding exactly the same as the Catholic School board. On par.

[August1991]

Also, John Tory is in favor of banning cel phones from cars. Not even hands free, a complete ban is what he wants. When the issue came up, Dalton McGuinty refused to ban cel phones from vehicles and sided on the personal liberties.

You gotta love democratic politics.

MikeDavid, you have only a small X on a small sheet of paper to decide so much over the next four years or so.

Would you decide your entire family's budget for four years by such a single yes/no way? (And PR wouldn't change the yes/no nature of a vote.)

The Ontario government spends about $10,000 of your money every year. Would you decide to send me a $800 cheque every month for four years in such a cavalier fashion?

Yet that's what you will do in this vote.

Edited July 24, 2007 by August1991

[betsy]

When the issue came up, Dalton McGuinty refused to ban cel phones from vehicles and sided on the personal liberties.

McGuinty did the unpopular thing of re-openning nuclear power plants which took courage becasue the lobby faught so hard to close them down.

And finally, McGuinty said something I wont forget "if you want to help the environment and reduce emissions, then go out and buy a brand new car which will reduce emissions". That was honest and very unpopular thing to say.

When it came to the Christmas tree in the courthouse, he said that banning a Christmas tree was not a true sign of multiculturalism and it went too far. Very unpopular, and honest thing to say.

I understand your concern about Tory's platform.

And you like what McGuinty is spouting off.

Well, McGuinty is known for breaking promises - like that tax promise. And I don't think I like the way Caledonia was handled.

Law and order was cast aside because McGuinty had frozen up like a deer caught in the headlights. That's no way to lead.

Edited July 24, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

Should this be a topic for Provincial Politics? Just asking.

Well it's about an issue that effects all of us and our culture. A good conversation piece.

Then you should know what Dion - the leader of McGuinty's Party - had stated at an interview at the opening gala of the Hindu temple. "Tolerance is not enough."

What could that mean? Condoning cultural and religious acts that are considered unlawful in our own culture?

Anyway, isn't McGuinty the one who actually contemplated legalizing Sharia Law?

For him to even consider such a move is beyond stupid, really. He will do anything for votes!

How do you feel about that?

Edited July 24, 2007 by betsy

[betsy]

McGuinty is no saint, but I think my choice is pretty clear to any Liberal or Conservative voter. He's done an 'ok' job and is heading down the right path for Ontario. I shudder to imagine John's wacky path that he wants to take the province.

They're all pandering to minorities, Mike.

But I think McGuinty's type of pandering is a real eye-opener. He is the only one I know of who actually contemplated legalizing Sharia Law. Do you realize the gravity of that kind of mentality by a political leader?

Not only would it have been okay to tolerate and accept an oppressive religion - that means also condoning it, AND MAKING IT LEGAL!

And now Dion is practically giving us an insight with his most recent speech - that tolerance is no longer enough!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if McGuinty wins, and publicly fund all religious schools anyway. Actually I would be surprised if he doesn't do just that!

Edited July 24, 2007 by betsy

[scribblet]

I don't doubt that McGuinty will win.

I don't agree with publicly funding religious schools; however, as long as there is a separate RC board, there is a good case for discrimination. I'm not sure if that alone is enough to get me to support the Liberals. Have to look at the other issues.

[Leafless]

Anyway, isn't McGuinty the one who actually contemplated legalizing Sharia Law?

For him to even consider such a move is beyond stupid, really. He will do anything for votes!

Mc.Guinty is also responsible for allowing Ottawa to become 'officially bilingual' (for votes without any sort of referendum), while Mike Harris opposed the move and never seen the need for 'official bilingualism in Ottawa.

BTW-Ontario has no official bilingual policy and would like to see what would happen to Mr. Mc.Guinty if he ever tried to unilaterally declare Ontario officially bilingual.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/12/13/bilingual991213.html

[Keepitsimple]

It requires further thought but it's not as scary as Mike makes it seem. Here's the important part of the proposal:

In order to receive public funding, faith-based schools would have to agree to teach the Ontario curriculum, participate in standardized testing and hire accredited teachers, Tory said, adding that public funding would not be extended to the schools without extensive consultation and thought.

There are no laws that I am aware of that govern the amount of religious/cultural education received in a private school. Without an alternative, religious minority private schools could intentionally or unintentionally introduce an unbalanced amount of religious doctrine. With a publicly funded alternative, many religion-conscious parents in minority communities could choose be part of a mainstream education system and still get a modest amount of religious/cultural exposure. I say "modest" because in order to be taught the Ontario Curriculum and be part of standardized testing, there wouldn't be enough classtime for an excessive amount of religion/cultural teaching.

So....Tory's approach could be a sensible way of preventing/marginalizing future pseudo-madrassas but still protecting the Charter of Rights.

[mikedavid00]

MikeDavid, you have only a small X on a small sheet of paper to decide so much over the next four years or so.

I know that. I know my vote doesn't make a difference.

Yet that's what you will do in this vote.

No. That vote will be the biggest cultural change in Canada since multi-culturalism.

After 9-11 and all the other problems we've had, I just can't believe we are futher segregating our populations.

I professed that many years from now other countries would own Canadian land. For instance, the city of Surrey BC would become an indian terrirtory.

This is just a step further in that direction.

The *only* thing that ensured we melted in some way was our public schooling system. A shared school system.

Now, we'll have brown colour people ghettoising to their own schools, learning their own languages, native cultures, and of course, religion. Then onto Muslims of course. Saudi funding will become involved at this point and of course the inevitable allegations of preaching hate in our public schools which will occur.

And then, a neighbourhood will get built. There will only be so much land to build schools so fights will break out over who's relgion gets the school and things can get nasty at that point.

You really do have to live in the GTA and surrounding to really take whitness to the already problematic segregation and to throw this in the mix ensures complete, and utter segregation. Only thing next is to have these cities become regions of other countries.

What will also happen is these schools will be then known as 'minority' schools. And what do our politicians like to do with 'minorities'? Ah yes, give them special privledge. So per capita you very well me see even more funding, special rights, and other privleges in these schools.

Also, there is the whole teach union factor. For instance, if you are an Islamic school, you will need a muslim to teach Islam. But there isn't going to be these teachers in that kind of abundance becuase there aren't too many that have gone through 4 years of schooling to get to that point. What I see happening are these poeple getting fast tracked into their profession and recieving special privledge when the rest of us have to go to teachers college. Then of course the Chinese and Carribian will complain that they don't get their own schools, and naturally the gov't will eventually give in.

Then ah yes. Teachers college. You can't go to a public teaching school if you are teaching Islam, so what's the next logical thing to happen? Segregated teachers colleges. Then segregated gov't employment, then segregated cities, and voila, ownership of fogeign by foreign state.

I can't stress the distructiveness of this policy. If this happens, it would be like a cancer that grows out of control. People would be coming out of their segregated schools 'proud to be Indian!' and then demand to get their own Universities becuase they are so used to segregated schooling. And who would help fund these Universities? India of course. Saudia Arabia of course. They would just extend their schools into Canada. This already happens in Isreal/US/UK etc.

If everyone is dead set on being 'fiar', then just convert all Catholic schools to public. But oh yes, our constitution says we cna't do that so TOO BAD! Even the *LIBERAL* education minister said that this was a horrible idea because it would promote further segregation which is a negative when living in Canada. Things have gotten worse, not better.

The only way to stop it is through IMMIGRATION REFORM HERE AND NOW! and send the feds a message that some things are non-negationable in Canada and this is one.

We want people here for work - not culture.

edit: I also forgot to bring up that in Ontario, our schools are already not allowed to report illegals. Now apply this to a Sikh school for instance, and there will be a safe haven for any illegal to send their kids to school.

Edited July 24, 2007 by mikedavid00

[Bonam]

I say "modest" because in order to be taught the Ontario Curriculum and be part of standardized testing, there wouldn't be enough classtime for an excessive amount of religion/cultural teaching.

Heh, that kind of made me laugh. The amount of required knowledge contained in our school curriculums is so pitiful it could easily all be compressed into a much smaller amount of time. Furthermore, it is very easy to include religious indoctrination to various degrees within other classes. If this move goes through, those Madrassas you mention are going to be springing up all over the province.

Religious schools shouldn't exist, and they most especially shouldn't be funded with public funds. I'd rather not have my tax money spent to hire some fanatic from Hamastan (accredited of course) to instruct some kids on how best to kill me (in the guise of a lesson on math, physics, or biology) or why to hate me (in the guise of a lesson on english, socials, or history).

[Michael Bluth]

I don't quite know why MD00 is supporting the Liberals as a result of this.

Is this behaviour the Liberals are opposed to or against?

[capricorn]

I am totally against faith-based schools funded by our tax dollars. If this means dismantling the Catholic school system, so be it. It's a pity though. From what I read the Catholic Board runs a pretty good operation, that is, financially prudent with high scholastic achievement among students.

As others have said, why would we support a system that segregates our children? There is a danger here. How on earth will we be able foster a common Canadian identity and culture through such an initiative.

Another point, if these schools come into effect, you can bet a new bureaucracy will be hatched to hear the complaints and appeals of those schools that are refused funding. Think lawsuits and hefty legal bills to be paid by the taxpayer.

[M.Dancer]

I am totally against faith-based schools funded by our tax dollars. If this means dismantling the Catholic school system, so be it. It's a pity though. From what I read the Catholic Board runs a pretty good operation, that is, financially prudent with high scholastic achievement among students.

Some cliches come to mind...

cutting off your nose to spite your face......

Throwing out the baby with the bath water......

and they say to believe in religion is irrational........how about dismantling a system that works all because it doesn't fit a secular ideaology......

[capricorn]

I am totally against faith-based schools funded by our tax dollars. If this means dismantling the Catholic school system, so be it. It's a pity though. From what I read the Catholic Board runs a pretty good operation, that is, financially prudent with high scholastic achievement among students.

Some cliches come to mind...

cutting off your nose to spite your face......

Throwing out the baby with the bath water......

and they say to believe in religion is irrational........how about dismantling a system that works all because it doesn't fit a secular ideaology......

If faith based schools do not receive approval, there will be groundswell to dismantle the Catholic system. Our courts would bend to the pressure and base its decision on all kinds of arguments (discrimination, attack on religious rights, etc.) It would then order the Catholic system be discontinued. I don't like it, but I see it coming.

[mikedavid00]

I understand your concern about Tory's platform.

It's not just me, it's Liberals too. It's also non votes.

And the Islamic Congress of Canada has officially announced that they do not support this becuase of the intense segregation it will lead to.

Even the most anti-us, pro terrorist caller to 640 said that this was a bad idae and he's a muslim. He said you just what will happen if you open this can of worms. He's right.

And you like what McGuinty is spouting off.

Over all, yes he hasn't banned me from talking on a cel phone in my care and make this a further communist state. I'm so desperate i'm just looking for the simple things.

Well, McGuinty is known for breaking promises - like that tax promise.

He's broken a million promises no doubt. But they all break promises including the CPC.

And I don't think I like the way Caledonia was handled.

I'm not defending McGuinty any way.. i hate him too, but these native issues are really federal issues. Harper did nothing.

Law and order was cast aside because McGuinty had frozen up like a deer caught in the headlights. That's no way to lead.

Yeah but that goes for all Natives.

Some things are non negotiable. What he's suggested will cuase even greater dissaster than multiculturalism. It sounds good and fair now, but the trouble it will lead to down the road is insurpassible.

But NOTHING is more destructive than our immigration policy.

[mikedavid00]

Then you should know what Dion - the leader of McGuinty's Party - had stated at an interview at the opening gala of the Hindu temple. "Tolerance is not enough."

I hate Dion make no doubt. I do not feel the same way about federal politics. However I just can't vote in someone who's most important issue is to further segregate us and spend billions of dollars in doing so. What drugs is John Torry smoking? I was going to ask them to put his biggest sign on my lawn. No more. A LIberal sign is going on my lawn (can't beleive I said that).

A muslim lady called up the radio station today who is Pakistani and she said that the only things her kids have to integrate with Canadians is public schools and she doesn't feel that Islamic schools should be offered when people are coming to Canada. Many people from the old country know what trouble will be caused when Islamists get their hands on public funds and open schools. Next will be universities funded from Saudi Arabia, so on and so one.

Anyway, isn't McGuinty the one who actually contemplated legalizing Sharia Law?

For him to even consider such a move is beyond stupid, really. He will do anything for votes!

They did that to be fair, but it was unanumously shut it down. What they did do was ruin Jews from doing the same thing which was the real motive by the Islamists.

And now they are going ot get public funding for segregated schools???

The people of Canada are losing full contol of our country becuase the stone age vote is too powerful and has the power to sway any election. That's how I feel. All parties are now doing wild things that are not in the best interest of Canadians.

Read the sig.

[capricorn]

I think the same dynamic is happening at the provincial level as what happened at the federal level. Discontented federal Liberals voted Conservative to punish the Liberals for Adscam and other transgressions. As a result, they gained a Prime Minister in Harper that is closer to their ideology that they could ever have imagined. Liberal-lite, I think they call the Harper crew.

Provincial Liberal voters (many vote the same at both levels) will look at this picture and say, hey, things may not be as bad under Tory as what we think.

I do think McGuinty and company need time in the penalty box. There are just too many strikes against his administration. Is another Liberal-lite leader on the horizon?

I love it when when we can collectively punish politicians for thinking we are looking the other way when all the time we see everything they don't want us to see. Then we lower the boom.

[mikedavid00]

They're all pandering to minorities, Mike.

I know this, but some things are non negotionable, and this is one of them. I never thought I would see any political leader do this. If immigration was 10 times less and despersed all over the country (as it is in the US) then I wouldn't care. There would be a little school here or there adn that's it. But we have immigration/ethnic minority numbers which our out growing our own population here in Canada and it's too much, too fast, and going too far.

Multiculturalism was an ideal. That's all it was. What made sure the kids blended was the fact that they attended public schools where they can meet other Canadians and people different then them.

Now, we are proposing sever ghettoization and segregation of kids learning their mother tonque, culture, and religion through our tax dollars. A sikh child in Canada, attending a Sikh school, being taught Indian culture and sikh values, and learning the Punjabi language does not make this child a Canadian. It makes him living in a Punjabi settlement. Troubles will happen when these kids get older like we have never thought possible. Weren't the FLQ students also? You wait and see. I really hope Tory doens't get elected.

But I think McGuinty's type of pandering is a real eye-opener. He is the only one I know of who actually contemplated legalizing Sharia Law. Do you realize the gravity of that kind of mentality by a political leader?

He voted it down though and it was a another member who brought it in. They read it to be 'nice'. In John TOry's mentatlity, he would ALLOW any religion to bring forth their own laws. Don't you see?

Hey man, i'm just trying to pick the lesser of two evils. I can't believe i'm even saying this, but I just can't support Conservatives. This issue is way too important.

And now Dion is practically giving us an insight with his most recent speech - that tolerance is no longer enough!

It's a sign of the times just HOW MANY immigants and ethnic minorities there are here in Cnaada. I don't know what the latest stats are, but just the last 2 years there must have been about 1,000,000 people who immigrated and were born to these people. It's not just the immigratns, the kids are coming out with the same mentatiliy and are totall segregated.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if McGuinty wins, and publicly fund all religious schools anyway. Actually I would be surprised if he doesn't do just that!

He said he wont do it becuaes it further segregates Canadians. Dalton I feel actually tries to be responsible.

[capricorn]

Hey, Mikedavid00, just because Tory wants faith-based schools doesn't mean it's a fait accompli. Even if Tory was elected, I would hope this would be defeated in the provincial legislature. With the opinions I've heard so far, this would be the outcome.

[mikedavid00]

I don't quite know why MD00 is supporting the Liberals as a result of this.

Is this behaviour the Liberals are opposed to or against?

The LIberals are apposed to the public funding of religious schools due to further segregation of Canadians.

And the Muslim Candian Congress of Canada has issued a statement:

http://www.muslimcanadiancongress.org/

"MCC rejects John Tory plan to fund private religious schools

TORONTO - The Muslim Canadian Congress has criticized the proposal by the Progressive Conservative Party of Ontario to fund private religious schools by diverting funds away from the public education system.

The MCC stands for the separation of religion and state. Religious organizations have no role to play when government services are provided to the public. In every sphere of life where government interacts with its citizens—in law making and law enforcement, in utilities, transit, public recreation, social services, and above all, in education—religion is as irrelevant as gender or race."

[capricorn]

My esteem for the MCC has gone up a notch.

These are the views we need to hear. Bravo!