Canada upgrading Frigates

[White Doors]

This will be good for our Navy.

Now how about those new support ships?

http://www.cdnmilitary.ca/?p=22

[M.Dancer]

This will be good for our Navy.

Now how about those new support ships?

http://www.cdnmilitary.ca/?p=22

I was shocked when I heard a talking head on theTV say our frigates are getting long in the tooth....seems like only yesterday they were commisioned and the talk was they were the most advanced ships of the class and size in the world.....

[White Doors]

Me too actually. time flies I guess. They said this is their mid-life upgrade.

Think how much better computers are now since 1987 though. Seems like the bulk is being spent on technology related issues. In that light, it makes sense.

[ScottSA]

This will be good for our Navy.

Now how about those new support ships?

http://www.cdnmilitary.ca/?p=22

I was shocked when I heard a talking head on theTV say our frigates are getting long in the tooth....seems like only yesterday they were commisioned and the talk was they were the most advanced ships of the class and size in the world.....

They were, circa 1945.

[M.Dancer]

This will be good for our Navy.

Now how about those new support ships?

http://www.cdnmilitary.ca/?p=22

I was shocked when I heard a talking head on theTV say our frigates are getting long in the tooth....seems like only yesterday they were commisioned and the talk was they were the most advanced ships of the class and size in the world.....

They were, circa 1945.

Poor poor macfeegle and your chronic inferiority complex......

when the frigates were launched there was not a ship in their class that could compete with them in any nation in the world.

[M.Dancer]

The "between the Lines" part of the story.....

Prime Minister Stephen Harper came briefly to Halifax this morning, making a military funding announcement and then leaving town without seeking a meeting with Premier Rodney MacDonald.

Relations between the leaders have been soured by the March 19 budget, which Nova Scotians say could cost them upwards of $1-billion.

*snip*

Mr. MacDonald said yesterday that he would be disappointed to be left in the dark about an announcement that is good news for his province. But he was to be in Truro, N.S., at the time of the Halifax event.

*snip*

“I am surprised to learn of his visit via The Globe and Mail,” the Premier said of the Prime Minister in a telephone interview Wednesday. “I am not even sure what the announcement is – if it is something new or a re-announcement of monies in the federal budget. All I can gather is that it has some relationship to biofuels.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

It's been a while since I've been to NS.....isn't Truro about an hour away?

[White Doors]

Yep, about an hour - probably less.

[Argus]

This will be good for our Navy.

Now how about those new support ships?

http://www.cdnmilitary.ca/?p=22

I was shocked when I heard a talking head on theTV say our frigates are getting long in the tooth....seems like only yesterday they were commisioned and the talk was they were the most advanced ships of the class and size in the world.....

I dunno about most advanced, but they were sure as hell the most expensive.

[Michael Bluth]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...y/National/home

It's been a while since I've been to NS.....isn't Truro about an hour away?

If Rodney wanted to repair the relationship wouldn't a call to the PMO work a little better than complaining to a reporter?

[ScottSA]

This will be good for our Navy.

Now how about those new support ships?

http://www.cdnmilitary.ca/?p=22

I was shocked when I heard a talking head on theTV say our frigates are getting long in the tooth....seems like only yesterday they were commisioned and the talk was they were the most advanced ships of the class and size in the world.....

They were, circa 1945.

Poor poor macfeegle and your chronic inferiority complex......

when the frigates were launched there was not a ship in their class that could compete with them in any nation in the world.

They had peachy new silhouettes and a few new gadgets. Let's not overdo it here.

[weaponeer]

They were state of the art, top of the line when they came on line in the late '80's. But times and technology has changed.

They will be getting new air search radars, data link systems and SAMs to help intigrate them into the Canadian Air Defence system, and allow them to better work with and support army ops. The will be a different state of the art beast in the future.....

[bush_cheney2004]

They were state of the art, top of the line when they came on line in the late '80's. But times and technology has changed.

Yes, they were quite good and better than the earlier American Oliver Hazard Perry class which demonstrated many of the features incorporated in the Halifax class. Halifax had a tad more displacement but shallower draught, better power plant automation, longer range, better weapons load for AAW, and improved Harpoon launchers for SSW. The only criticism may be lowered defense budgets to fund crew and logistics for such a fine platform....starting with the aging CH-124's to basic platform configuration management.

Their high cost was also noted at the time, but this was partly due to changing production sites and lower production numbers to allocate total program costs. [The Americans built 50 Perrys ]

[Leafless]

They were state of the art, top of the line when they came on line in the late '80's. But times and technology has changed.

They will be getting new air search radars, data link systems and SAMs to help intigrate them into the Canadian Air Defence system, and allow them to better work with and support army ops. The will be a different state of the art beast in the future.....

To bad Canada cannot develop its own military needs rather then depend on retrofits and weaponry from another country, because by the time they are installed they will be well on their way to becoming obsolete, again.

[jdobbin]

They were state of the art, top of the line when they came on line in the late '80's. But times and technology has changed.

They will be getting new air search radars, data link systems and SAMs to help intigrate them into the Canadian Air Defence system, and allow them to better work with and support army ops. The will be a different state of the art beast in the future.....

I can remember when they first started talking about the technical specs for this back in 2005, approved the companies involved in the systems in late 2006 and then in May of this year, I saw the notice that they were about to announce the shipyard involved. I thought the Tories would announce it all during the election but some things you can't hold off forever.

It is a good program, especially because of the fact that Canadian destroyers will be retired sometime during the last of the overhauls.

I think they are now working on the new destroyer program.

[hiti]

How nice of Stevie to keep alive Paul Martin's budget allocation for refitting the frigates. And to make a public announcement yet.....

Paul Martin must be so pleased.

[weaponeer]

They will be sweet machines once they come on line. The new H92 Cyclone helo is quiet a machine too. One of my good friends is currently learning how to fly them. With the new helo, and it's plug and play mission capability, with new air search radars etc the frigates will be a force. Too bad they didi not have icebreaker capability, we could use them up north, oh well you cannot have everything....

[Wilber]

To bad Canada cannot develop its own military needs rather then depend on retrofits and weaponry from another country, because by the time they are installed they will be well on their way to becoming obsolete, again.

To do that Canada will have to build stuff that other countries will want to buy in order to recoup R&D and tooling costs. The CAF's just don't buy enough to make it cost effective. Sweden with companies like Bofors and Saab is one that has managed. Not PC in Canada the Good however.

[weaponeer]

To bad Canada cannot develop its own military needs rather then depend on retrofits and weaponry from another country, because by the time they are installed they will be well on their way to becoming obsolete, again.

To do that Canada will have to build stuff that other countries will want to buy in order to recoup R&D and tooling costs. The CAF's just don't buy enough to make it cost effective. Sweden with companies like Bofors and Saab is one that has managed. Not PC in Canada the Good however.

I agree with you 100%. The US has some really good kit, US companies that make it do have facilities in Canada. Boeing in Winnipeg & Arnprior, Westinghouse, Lockheed Matrin etc... Canadian companies do well here...

[Army Guy]

I'd be curious to know if upgrading our existing frigs is the way to go, there seems to be alot of progress and advancements in terms of frigs and destroyers out there now , The French, british, and US have some very good products.

[Mad_Michael]

To bad Canada cannot develop its own military needs rather then depend on retrofits and weaponry from another country, because by the time they are installed they will be well on their way to becoming obsolete, again.

To do that Canada will have to build stuff that other countries will want to buy in order to recoup R&D and tooling costs. The CAF's just don't buy enough to make it cost effective. Sweden with companies like Bofors and Saab is one that has managed. Not PC in Canada the Good however.

Yes. And Sweden has to sell to some very unsavoury regimes and was involved with selling weapons on both sides in the Iran vs Iraq war in order to keep her native arms industry afloat.

Canada's arms industry died with the Arrow. It is US defense policy to have all allies dependent upon US arms.

[Mad_Michael]

I'd be curious to know if upgrading our existing frigs is the way to go, there seems to be alot of progress and advancements in terms of frigs and destroyers out there now , The French, british, and US have some very good products.

New naval products are always twenty years down the pipeline. US will be equipping their own fleet before they sell to us.

And it always takes at least 5 years to negotiate the deal whereby Quebec has to have a major piece of the action or we aren't allowed to buy/build anything. Indeed, we bumped the construction cost on the original frigate purchase by some 25-35% so we could build half of the ships in Quebec.

Defense procurement policy in Canada is ALWAYS subservient to 'pork for Quebec' in the Federal government funding priority system.

[Army Guy]

Canada's arms industry died with the Arrow. It is US defense policy to have all allies dependent upon US arms.

Although true our defense industry did suffer a blow with the arrow, it's still there as much as tolerated by Canadians, i think the frigs are good example, along with Canada's version of the M-16 manufactured by diemaco Canada, or the ADDATS system by oerlikon canada.

As for all of it's allies operating US arms not true, even in Canada we operate a mish mash of equipment from across the globe...

New naval products are always twenty years down the pipeline. US will be equipping their own fleet before they sell to us.

The products are available right now, or in the very near future, and i'm sure the US would be more than happy to build us a few ships if it meant we would be actually be using them to assist in our own defense.

[AngusThermopyle]

The City class Frigates were superb ships when they were commissioned. Although they are getting older they are still amongst the better ships sailing. Canada has a tradition of building superb ships. The old River class were revolutionary in their day and the Tribals were better than anything else in their class upon commissioning. The Trump refit brought the Tribals up to current standards at the time. The concept being one of area defense capabilities combined with long range striking power in concert with the City class Frigates. In other words these ships were intended to sail in tandem with each other. A city and a Tribal forming a small multi capability battle group.

Weaponry on both ships is very good. The Tribals carry a 36 cell vertical launch Sea Sparrow missile system for air defense, along with the usual CWIS system that most ships now mount. The City Class of course have the Harpoons, which give them their long range strike capabilities, of course they also carry a CWIS. In adition both classes also carry very good rapid fire guns with a 24 kilometer range. The "tails" are superb sub hunting tools and both classes are equipped with them.

I believe the new Destroyers will be based on the City hull design. Thats a very good thing. The Cities are fast and stable platforms with a good long range capability. Although the Tribals were a great ship succesive disinterested governments have kept them in commission long past any reasonable time frame. They really do need to be replaced at this point. As do our AOR's.

(Sorry About the spelling, I'm in a bit of a hurry.)

[jbg]

How nice of Stevie to keep alive Paul Martin's budget allocation for refitting the frigates. And to make a public announcement yet.....

Paul Martin must be so pleased.

Is your paid occupation Stephen Harper bashing?

[AngusThermopyle]

It's too bad that partisan politics has to saturate any discussion on just about any subject. I don't believe any of our Politicians are worthy of overwhelming respect, they are just people, and for the most part people have feet of clay, so to speak.

Having sailed on a number of our ships for quite a few years I for one more than welcome any increase in funding. As I said earlier the Frigates are fine ships. It would be a shame to see such an investment degraded through a lack of funds. Control of the sea lanes used to almost guarantee success in almost any endevour undertaken by nations. Today, even though not to the same degree, this still holds true. Not that Canada wishes to control any sea lanes, it is however still important to be able to project some form of credible naval presence.