Iran Poll

[JerrySeinfeld]

Please provide your reasons.

[M.Dancer]

"orange"!!!

[Figleaf]

In this regard, Iran is like any other state in the world. It has nothing to gain and everything to lose by using nuclear weapons.

The only thing that would provoke Iran to use nuclear weapons is, like other states, imminent danger of being overcome by a strategic threat.

More worrisome might be the 'leakage' of nuclear weapons, materials or know-how to non-state actors. But even there, the advantages of doing so are not completely obvious.

[M.Dancer]

In this regard, Iran is like any other state in the world. It has nothing to gain and everything to lose by using nuclear weapons.

The only thing that would provoke Iran to use nuclear weapons is, like other states, imminent danger of being overcome by a strategic threat.

More worrisome might be the 'leakage' of nuclear weapons, materials or know-how to non-state actors. But even there, the advantages of doing so are not completely obvious.

Oh yeah. Sure. Figleaf knows more about the Iran than Ali Khamenei's government does. Figleaf knows all about Iran's nuslear objectives, Iranian internal governance, exactly what the Iranians want and the motivations of each of them.

Figleaf knows everything there is to know about Iran. Indeed, observe Figleaf even briefly and it becomes clear ... Figleaf knows everything about everything. Just ask Figleaf.

[Drea]

I voted no because it is not in their best interest to do so.

If they nuke Isreal (even with a dirty bomb rather than a full on nuke) USA and Isreal certainly would wipe them off the map.

It's all posturing. Except for what Figleaf says -- "leakage" to terrorist groups. In this day and age I doubt if any government (legitimate govt -- meaning NOT Hamas) would nuke another country. There is just too much at stake. A terrorist group on the other hand...

[White Doors]

uhhm... Iran is the biggest sponsor of Hezbollah....

Can you connect the dots?

Can you say plausible deniability?

[B. Max]

Oh I think they would eventually blow up Israel but not before they are also capable of blowing up at least Europe as a deterrent against any kind retaliation for doing so. Actually the possiblilties for what they might do if they have nukes are many. None of them good.

[Topaz]

Wouldn't be safer to say that, if a nuclear bomb was dropped in the Middle-East, it would probably be done by the USA because after all, they have a dumb war monger president that lives thousand of miles away and the fall out of the bomb couldn't touch him!! I don't think anyone living in the region would actually do it. IF a bomb was dropped on the US, Bush would still be safer than you or me!!

[Drea]

uhhm... Iran is the biggest sponsor of Hezbollah....

really? You got contacts in govt there? LOL

Can you connect the dots?

Can you say plausible deniability?

Like I (and FIgleaf) said -- "leakage" to terrorist groups... Can you read? LOL

I am amazed that some badass group doesn't have them already -- from Pakistan.

[JerrySeinfeld]

OK. So far no one here has acknowledged what Ahmedinejad and the Ayatollahs have been saying: That armageddon is a necessary precursor to the coming of the 12th Imam. In other words, we're dealing with a group of people whose beliefs ENCOURAGE armageddon.

MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) is a dated concept that doesn't apply to a religion whose more - ahem - VIGOROUS factinos believe that suicide is a heroic act.

[Figleaf]

OK. So far no one here has acknowledged what Ahmedinejad and the Ayatollahs have been saying: That armageddon is a necessary precursor to the coming of the 12th Imam. In other words, we're dealing with a group of people whose beliefs ENCOURAGE armageddon.

I'd be curious to know where you're hearing that and where I can find out more about it.

[JerrySeinfeld]

OK. So far no one here has acknowledged what Ahmedinejad and the Ayatollahs have been saying: That armageddon is a necessary precursor to the coming of the 12th Imam. In other words, we're dealing with a group of people whose beliefs ENCOURAGE armageddon.

I'd be curious to know where you're hearing that and where I can find out more about it.

Well, here's a start. There's plenty more sources if you wish...an excerpt:

The president of a country about to go nuclear is a confirmed believer in the coming apocalypse. Like Judaism and Christianity, Shiite Islam has its own version of the messianic return -- the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam. The more devout believers in Iran pray at the Jamkaran mosque, which houses a well from which, some believe, he will emerge.

When Ahmadinejad unexpectedly won the presidential elections, he immediately gave $17 million of government funds to the shrine. Last month Ahmadinejad said publicly that the main mission of the Islamic Revolution is to pave the way for the reappearance of the Twelfth Imam.

And as in some versions of fundamentalist Christianity, the second coming will be accompanied by the usual trials and tribulations, death and destruction. Iranian journalist Hossein Bastani reported Ahmadinejad saying in official meetings that the hidden imam will reappear in two years.

So a Holocaust-denying, virulently anti-Semitic, aspiring genocidist, on the verge of acquiring weapons of the apocalypse, believes that the end is not only near but nearer than the next American presidential election. (Pity the Democrats. They cannot catch a break.) This kind of man would have, to put it gently, less inhibition about starting Armageddon than a normal person. Indeed, with millennial bliss pending, he would have positive incentive to, as they say in Jewish eschatology, hasten the end.

[Guest coot]

In other words, we're dealing with a group of people whose beliefs ENCOURAGE armageddon.

Yes, but Bush believes in the rapture and has visions that he can talk to God. I don't trust religious extremists of any stripe.

[JerrySeinfeld]

In other words, we're dealing with a group of people whose beliefs ENCOURAGE armageddon.

Yes, but Bush believes in the rapture and has visions that he can talk to God. I don't trust religious extremists of any stripe.

So I assume you answered "yes" to the poll question.

[BC_chick]

Well, here's a start.

That's a start? An op/ed which makes grandiose statements like the following?

Everyone knows where Iran's nuclear weapons will be aimed. Everyone knows they will be put on Shahab rockets, which have been modified so that they can reach Israel.

This is after all the columnist's primary premise isn't it?

I wonder who Mr. Krauthammer considers as "everyone" because I've heard many opinions to the contrary and that pretty much that the "every" out of the "everyone."

[JerrySeinfeld]

Well, here's a start.

That's a start? An op/ed which makes grandiose statements like the following?

Everyone knows where Iran's nuclear weapons will be aimed. Everyone knows they will be put on Shahab rockets, which have been modified so that they can reach Israel.

This is after all the columnist's primary premise isn't it?

I wonder who Mr. Krauthammer considers as "everyone" because I've heard many opinions to the contrary and that pretty much that the "every" out of the "everyone."

If you think this is a case of one columnist you clearly haven't been paying attention.

Ahmedinejad's speeches and actions don't constitute "opinion", they consitute what he actually said and did.

Here is some more for you... and here

and here, here, , here, here.....

[Guest coot]

So I assume you answered "yes" to the poll question.

I couldn't understand why anyone would respond to a poll that is both meaningless and completely incomprehensible. When the crucial question of the poll starts with "When they do do you think...", I just stop reading.

[myata]

Soviets had extremely authoritarian ideology and lots of nukes and they didn"t use them once. Iran will at best have a handful and not anytime soon.

[noahbody]

If the UN has one objective, it should be to prevent another world war. Iran is a real threat to this if they achieve nuclear status. Nuclear weapons have served as a deterrent to war for decades due to the fear of death. There is no such deterrent in Iran. The debate shouldn't only be cetered around whether the current government is likely to pull the trigger, but also include the likelyhood of a government forming that would.

[sharkman]

Soviets had extremely authoritarian ideology and lots of nukes and they didn"t use them once. Iran will at best have a handful and not anytime soon.

Oh, they used them plenty. As they built up their arsenal and aimed it everywhere, menacing the free world and using it as an unspoken threat as they spread communism to various satellite countries.

[myata]

Yeah right. They "used" it and US used it (for strictly defence purposes of course). Those are just two different semantics of the same word.

[Higgly]

This is a dumb poll. Nobody has proven that Iran is trying to build nuclear weapons. If it were, it is sandwiched between nuclear nations... Israel to the west and Pakistan to the east. Israel jailed the only guy who dared to confirm that it had nuclear weapons and continues to harrass him to this day. Israel is the only country that refused to sign the non-proliferation agreement and tried to hide behind a don't ask don't tell smokescreen.

Nuclear weapons are like the mumps. When your neighbour gets them, you get them. Israel is like the first kid in the class to get the mumps. If you want to disarm the Middle East, disarm Israel.

[noahbody]

[

quote name='Higgly' date='May 26 2007, 04:24 PM' post='222123]

This is a dumb poll. Nobody has proven that Iran is trying to build nuclear weapons.

A country with that much oil only needs nuclear power for one of two reasons. And I don't think they're jumping on the Al Gore bandwagon quite yet, pursuing alternatives to fossil fuels. But I just I could be wrong. They are crazy afterall.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Israel is the only country that refused to sign the non-proliferation agreement ....

This is patently false....both India and Pakistan have not ratified the NPT. Shucks...another Israel bash thwarted....and you wonder why I am here?

http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2003_10/IndiaPakistan.asp

[B. Max]

If you want to disarm the Middle East, disarm Israel.

Sounds like the old plow shear nonsense.