U.S. healthcare expensive, inefficient

[bush_cheney2004]

Hey what about the millions of Americans who get little or no health care at all? Everyone in Canada gets care even if they have to wait several hours for it. One of the evident things on here is that some Canadians, ones with the money, want to be like the Americans, make money by cutting health care for the rest of us.

What about 'em? They lack health insurance, not access to health care. Some Canadians wait far more than several hours, and those who live in remote areas do not have access to some services. Health care is not a right....not even in Canada.

Americans with financial means will not tolerate such long waits.....neither should Canadians (just for the sake of being equally screwed).

The sign in the waiting room said, "Payment is due when services are rendered".....Mama paid in cash!

[M.Dancer]

quote name='White Doors' date='May 15 2007, 05:45 PM' post='219265']

Dominionists?

You mean like John A. McDonald?

They are fresh Obsessed[

[White Doors]

white doors, lol, trying to tie the charter of rights into this topic is unbelievable and hilarious.

dominionists as in the religious theo-cons, nice try at deflecting, but no cigar.

You did hear about the Quebec courst decision made last year didn't you?

I am not deflecting at all. We have a right to timely health care and if the governmnet can't provide that then we have the RIGHT to seek private care. THAT was the decision.

[White Doors]

Canadian health care is an epic failure. Why we'd adopt another poor model (the American way), I don't know.

People like Catchme are why many Canadians suffer with inadequate or substandard care today. They see either Tommy Douglas or the States. It doesn't have to be that way.

The Europeans do it better than us by leaps and bounds, let's work towards their system and away from 1960's mentality.

It doesn't work!!!!! Wake up and get over it!

EXACTLY

[White Doors]

quote name='White Doors' date='May 15 2007, 05:45 PM' post='219265']

Dominionists?

You mean like John A. McDonald?

They are fresh Obsessed[

hahaha

[M.Dancer]

Canadian health care is an epic failure. Why we'd adopt another poor model (the American way), I don't know.

People like Catchme are why many Canadians suffer with inadequate or substandard care today. They see either Tommy Douglas or the States. It doesn't have to be that way.

The Europeans do it better than us by leaps and bounds, let's work towards their system and away from 1960's mentality.

It doesn't work!!!!! Wake up and get over it!

While it is hardly an epic failure, it is certainly not perfect and could use a good kick in the arse every now and then.

France btw is ranked as giving the world's best healthcare, Canada was # 30 out of 190, the US was #37.

Out of the top 10, 7 were European.

[scribblet]

quote name='White Doors' date='May 15 2007, 05:45 PM' post='219265']

Dominionists?

You mean like John A. McDonald?

They are fresh Obsessed[

LOL wonder if Dominion knows its getting a bad rap around here

[M.Dancer]

LOL wonder if Dominion knows its getting a bad rap around here

Wll, they could spruce up their stores a little.....

[Wilber]

US healthcare is superior, just a lot more expensive. Hell, many US pets get better/faster health care than some Canadians, patiently waiting for their fair turn in a long line (pun intended).

Pets in Canada can get the best health care money can buy. It's not allowed for humans. That is the biggest difference between Canada and most other countries with universal health care systems. Most of them have some sort of private option as well as the public system.

[Catchme]

Dominionists? You mean like John A. McDonald?

LOL wonder if Dominion knows its getting a bad rap around here

People who are quite evidently dominionists, as they are always spouting dominionist rhetoric and misinformation, and who try to pretend there is not dominionists, really should think about the 10 Commanments and bearing false witness.

Though it is off topic, in order for clarity, as it is the Dominionists, who want our universal health care destroyed, and who purvey all the misinformation about it, I will provide information, just in case some really do not know.

Today, Dominionists hide their agenda and have resorted to stealth; one investigator who has engaged in internet exchanges with people who identify themselves as religious conservatives said, They cut and run if I mention the word Dominionism. Joan Bokaer, the Director of Theocracy Watch, a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics and Social Policy at Cornell University wrote, In March 1986, I was on a speaking tour in Iowa and received a copy of the following memo [Pat] Robertson had distributed to the Iowa Republican County Caucus titled, How to Participate in a Political Party. It read:

“Rule the world for God.

“Give the impression that you are there to work for the party, not push an ideology.

“Hide your strength.

“Don't flaunt your Christianity.

“Christians need to take leadership positions. Party officers control political parties and so it is very important that mature Christians have a majority of leadership positions whenever possible, God willing.

Dominionists have gained extensive control of the Republican Party and the apparatus of government throughout the United States; they continue to operate secretly. Their agenda to undermine all government social programs that assist the poor, the sick, and the elderly is ingeniously disguised under false labels that confuse voters. Nevertheless, as we shall see, Dominionism maintains the necessity of laissez-faire economics, requiring that people look to God and not to government for help.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/Th...ngOfAmerica.htm

[White Doors]

Dominionists = evil bastards

Coles notes version.

Anyone ever met a Dominionist?

Weren't they one of the evil races on Star Trek Deep Space 9?

[bush_cheney2004]

Pets in Canada can get the best health care money can buy. It's not allowed for humans. That is the biggest difference between Canada and most other countries with universal health care systems. Most of them have some sort of private option as well as the public system.

Excellent...and the strangest observation of all. Indeed, pets have access to private/better care over humans in Canada. Remarkable.

[guyser]

Pets in Canada can get the best health care money can buy. It's not allowed for humans. That is the biggest difference between Canada and most other countries with universal health care systems. Most of them have some sort of private option as well as the public system.

Excellent...and the strangest observation of all. Indeed, pets have access to private/better care over humans in Canada. Remarkable.

Remarkable only in that there is not a shred of truth to it.

[Wilber]

Pets in Canada can get the best health care money can buy. It's not allowed for humans. That is the biggest difference between Canada and most other countries with universal health care systems. Most of them have some sort of private option as well as the public system.

Excellent...and the strangest observation of all. Indeed, pets have access to private/better care over humans in Canada. Remarkable.

Remarkable only in that there is not a shred of truth to it.

It is one of the ironies of our system. Pets don't necessarily get better care but they certainly have access to quicker care.

Medical science for animals isn't as advanced as it is for humans but within its limits, the care you can get for your pet is only limited by your ability to pay. You want it, you can get it, today.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in a universal publicly funded system but if you exclude all other options out of hand, it is just too expensive to operate without rationing of some sort, which means waits.

[scribblet]

[quote[People who are quite evidently dominionists, as they are always spouting dominionist rhetoric and misinformation, and who try to pretend there is not dominionists, really should think about the 10 Commanments and bearing false witness.

Though it is off topic, in order for clarity, as it is the Dominionists, who want our universal health care destroyed, and who purvey all the misinformation about it, I will provide information, just in case some really do not know.

Best laugh I've had in weeks ROTFLMAO

[sharkman]

At the same time the boomers put increasing demands on our system they will be making shortages in nurses and doctors as they retire. And as we get a massive influx of new Canadians each year using the medical system while not paying into it (immigration), those line ups are not going to get any smaller.

I'm not sure that one single report can be trusted to accurately analyze this. Numbers can be played with and made to say anything.

Don't look now, scriblett, but I think catchme is a member of that radical anti christian group, Pro-Can. Sad, really.

[ft.niagara]

A recent statement from the Canadian Constitution Foundation, which is helping to sponsor the lawsuit, said that it was intolerable that residents could buy medical insurance for their pets but not for themselves.

http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/129344.html

McCreith offers little doubt about where he stands. “We have universal health coverage,” he said. “But it failed me when I needed it the most.”

Health care on the cheap.

Edited July 29, 2007 by ft.niagara

[bush_cheney2004]

A recent statement from the Canadian Constitution Foundation, which is helping to sponsor the lawsuit, said that it was intolerable that residents could buy medical insurance for their pets but not for themselves.

This is the Canadian from the YouTube.com story in the "Sicko" thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4u5x9XAsAs...ments%2F1696%2F

As I have stated before, it is remarkable that Canadian pets have more options than people!

[B. Max]

Dominionists have gained extensive control of the Republican Party and the apparatus of government throughout the United States; they continue to operate secretly. Their agenda to undermine all government social programs that assist the poor, the sick, and the elderly is ingeniously disguised under false labels that confuse voters. Nevertheless, as we shall see, Dominionism maintains the necessity of laissez-faire economics, requiring that people look to God and not to government for help.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/Th...ngOfAmerica.htm

Would that be free dominionists or the vast right wing conspiracy.

Edited July 29, 2007 by B. Max

[B. Max]

Looks like there won't be to many going back to Marxassachusetts.

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/0...g-hard-way.html

[bush_cheney2004]

Looks like there won't be to many going back to Marxassachusetts.

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/0...g-hard-way.html

Excellent! I love this part:

Of course, free is a myth. While it would once have been unimaginable in the United States, Massachusetts may soon need to take a lesson from Canada and launch a website to help its residents navigate the exorbitant wait times for medical care.

[B. Max]

Excellent! I love this part:

Of course, free is a myth. While it would once have been unimaginable in the United States, Massachusetts may soon need to take a lesson from Canada and launch a website to help its residents navigate the exorbitant wait times for medical care.

Where did all those, I love government people go.

[scribblet]

There's a good one in the herald here about a two tier system and comments from the head of the CMA who is in favour of some private care. I think the idea is starting to gain a bit more favour, and rightly so. My choice where to spend my $$$

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/t...ry.html?id=4807

13ff-8296-4134-b98c-cfb9bcea83d9

Tuesday » August 7 » 2007

Two-tier system better than one

Dr. Brian Day, the incoming head of the Canadian Medical Association, is in favour of allowing private insurance for, and provision of, medical care. This position, still considered radical by health-care hardliners, contributed to his election as president by his fellow physicians.

Even the outgoing CMA president, a one-time supporter of medicare, endorses a new position paper calling for an expanded role for the private sector in providing medical care to Canadians.

Opponents of health-care reform should pay attention. Doctors see most clearly the extent of suffering, disability and death that result from our mismanaged health-care system. Patients can refer to their own experiences, and those of friends and relatives, and health bureaucrats surely see how the medical system inhales money, but it is doctors who are on the front

lines of the current crisis.

Watching patients wait months for tests that could, in another jurisdiction, be carried out within days, if not hours, is frustrating for doctors. Treating patients who are forced to wait more than a year for joint replacement, when the standard of care is 90 days, is profoundly disheartening.

-snip[

The reflexive response of blind supporters of public care has been to suggest that doctors advocate private insurance and health-care reform for their own financial improvement. This slur is not only uncalled for, but illogical.

-snip-

That some of us still lobby for a government monopoly on medicine is puzzling. That most of us are prevented from obtaining effective medical care, by a system rejected by the rest of the world, is a disgrace.

Rebecca Walberg is the director of health policy at the Frontier Centre for Public Policy, an independent think-tank with offices in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. www.fcpp.org

© The Calgary Herald 2007

[margrace]

Excellent! I love this part:

Of course, free is a myth. While it would once have been unimaginable in the United States, Massachusetts may soon need to take a lesson from Canada and launch a website to help its residents navigate the exorbitant wait times for medical care.

What wait times, in our area in Ontario wait times are less than 3 weeks for most procedures except joint replacements which are a symptom of our times and have not trained enough doctors for.

[bush_cheney2004]

What wait times, in our area in Ontario wait times are less than 3 weeks for most procedures except joint replacements which are a symptom of our times and have not trained enough doctors for.

That's great, because if you lived in the Champlain area, your wait time for cataracts surgery is now reported at 182 days (or longer):

http://www.waittimes.net/en/wt_data_map.as...IN=11&Mod=0

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/transformation...public_mn.html#

That such wait time web sites exist for each province is inconceivable to American health care consumers, but they are necessary in Canada to stem the tide of critics demanding measurable improvements.