Is God poison?

[Drea]

Is God Poison?

Religion kills, Hitchens says, because it is tribal and totalitarian, the most extreme form of in-group/out-group marker ever known. Although some faiths are more pacific than others, that has more to do with their relative powerlessness -- were the Amish, say, to rise to supreme authority over other faiths, they would soon begin to resemble the medieval Catholic Church. Power corrupts religion uniquely; because it considers its doctrines uniquely right, it necessarily seeks to interfere in the lives of non-believers.

Until religion is abolished off the face of the earth people will use it for their own "ends". ESPECIALLY when those "ends" mean wiping out or converting everyone else to the one "true" faith.

[M.Dancer]

Is God Poison?

were the Amish, say, to rise to supreme authority over other faiths, they would soon begin to resemble the medieval Catholic Church.

Until religion is abolished off the face of the earth people will use it for their own "ends". ESPECIALLY when those "ends" mean wiping out or converting everyone else to the one "true" faith.

Yet we have the British Empire which was by definition ruled by the head of the Church of England waged war to abolish slavery, ruled countless of millions of non believers and for the most part, ruled benignly...establishing hospitals, schools etc etc...and requiring no conversion of faith...

[Catchme]

Is God Poison?

were the Amish, say, to rise to supreme authority over other faiths, they would soon begin to resemble the medieval Catholic Church.

Until religion is abolished off the face of the earth people will use it for their own "ends". ESPECIALLY when those "ends" mean wiping out or converting everyone else to the one "true" faith.

Yet we have the British Empire which was by definition ruled by the head of the Church of England waged war to abolish slavery, ruled countless of millions of non believers and for the most part, ruled benignly...establishing hospitals, schools etc etc...and requiring no conversion of faith...

2 points:

1st - Drea the topic title does no match the commentary. Religion and God are actually 2 separate things. I would say religion is poison, but not God.

2nd - MDancer, well that was a wonderful reduction of the British Empire in historical harmless nothingness, when in actual fact in is not even close to being accurate. Take a step outside of the confines of the Hicks and Combee "Christian" historical textbooks, perhaps?

[M.Dancer]

2nd - MDancer, well that was a wonderful reduction of the British Empire in historical harmless nothingness, when in actual fact in is not even close to being accurate. Take a step outside of the confines of the Hicks and Combee "Christian" historical textbooks, perhaps?

Really? When were the forced conversions and who were the converted?

[sharkman]

Wait Drea, here's the best part:

"God is a delusion, if his enemies are to be believed: nothing more than the creation of a species with prefrontal lobes too small, and aggressive instincts too strong, for its own good. His worship is poison: his adherents commit child abuse -- metaphoric and actual -- on a daily basis"

Lovely people, these God is poison haters, I wonder what else they think. These are nothing more than bigots, and you are one for your constant smears on religions.

[Topaz]

Do you think humans around the world could survive if it could be proven there was no God as we know it?? What would they believe in, how would they react, how would society change or would it? One thign about talking about regilion, it can become very confusing, when exploring this topic. BTW, I do believe in a higher power or spirit.

[newbie]

Lovely people, these God is poison haters, I wonder what else they think. These are nothing more than bigots, and you are one for your constant smears on religions.

And there's the rub.

[scribblet]

Until religion is abolished off the face of the earth people will use it for their own "ends". ESPECIALLY when those "ends" mean wiping out or converting everyone else to the one "true" faith.

Pretty radical, but there's only one religion out there now using violence to bring about a theocratic state, and its not Christianty.

[Figleaf]

Is God poison?

Well, if you believe the Old Testament or if you give an honest listening to the Westboro Baptist Church ( http://www.godhatesfags.com/writings/20060...veryone-lie.pdf (see especially pp.5-32)) there can be very little doubt that Jehovah is one of the worst, hateful, wicked, bullying, self-righteous, destructive monsters the world has ever seen.

[stignasty]

Is God Poison?

I'm about half-way through Christopher Hitchens' book right now.

His recurrent themes are that God and Religion are transparently man made and therefore flawed. I think he's over the top on many occasions, such as when he refers to Mel Gibson as an Australian Nazi.

His world is split into the blind believers of religion and the enlightened (such as himself) who see flaw in it. I feel totally left out, neither being affiliated with a religion nor caring about discrediting it.

[scribblet]

His world is split into the blind believers of religion and the enlightened (such as himself) who see flaw in it. I feel totally left out, neither being affiliated with a religion nor caring about discrediting it.

Pretty much like the posters on here who go on about 'dominionism' etc. Unless religious fundamentalism has taken hold while I wasn't looking, I'm pretty sure that we are pretty well free of becoming anywhere near a theocracy, not to mention constitutions of both countries.

I get a sense that the secular humanism cult doesn't want Christians to have a voice in democracy or a vote, don't know about othe religions as they don't seem to have a problem with other fundamentalist faiths and violent actions.

[Catchme]

2nd - MDancer, well that was a wonderful reduction of the British Empire in historical harmless nothingness, when in actual fact in is not even close to being accurate. Take a step outside of the confines of the Hicks and Combee "Christian" historical textbooks, perhaps?

Really? When were the forced conversions and who were the converted?

Throughout the whole British Empire's colonialistic history. Just have a gander through "real history".

Really, do research world history and put away Hicks and Combee's false books that they have erroniously labelled as history.

The British Empire was NOT controlled by the Church of England, anymore than the Queen now controls the Britian.

As you said:

British Empire which was by definition ruled by the head of the Church of England

I mean what after all is "ruled by definition'? Other than absolutely nothing. It is a verbal construct that says nothing and means less.

The British Empire was not a theocracy, except by way of the fact that at differing times, the monarchy was also the head of the Church of England. Except of course for that oh so brief and ugly time under Cromwell. What they did was they pushed their religious beliefs upon the peoples.

Which is basically why, it is NO LONGER a Monarchy, but a democracy.

It was the religious wars, and other activities resulting from religious factions, that prompted the founders of the NEW World, meaning the USA and Canada, not to have a "state religion" they built countries where "freedom of religion" was the foundation.

Also, the British Empire did not build schools and hospitals, the people did. Whether it was done under the auspices of a religious order, a united group/organization of people, or communities themselves, it was built by the people. The British Empire was very good at taking, and did very little giving. Nor did the British Empire truly end slavery.

[scribblet]

The British Empire had a lot to with helping end slavery, William Wilberforce, a Christian btw, comes to mind.

Portugal was the first country to abolish slavery in its European territory. Britain passed the Abolition of the Slave Trade Act in 1807. The Slavery Abolition Act, passed in 1833, outlawing slavery in all British colonies.

[noahbody]

God might be better described as a drug.

[kuzadd]

Is God Poison?

Religion kills, Hitchens says, because it is tribal and totalitarian, the most extreme form of in-group/out-group marker ever known. Although some faiths are more pacific than others, that has more to do with their relative powerlessness -- were the Amish, say, to rise to supreme authority over other faiths, they would soon begin to resemble the medieval Catholic Church. Power corrupts religion uniquely; because it considers its doctrines uniquely right, it necessarily seeks to interfere in the lives of non-believers.

Until religion is abolished off the face of the earth people will use it for their own "ends". ESPECIALLY when those "ends" mean wiping out or converting everyone else to the one "true" faith.

The ABUSE of God is poison.

[guyser]

I get a sense that the secular humanism cult doesn't want Christians to have a voice in democracy or a vote, don't know about othe religions as they don't seem to have a problem with other fundamentalist faiths and violent actions.

I dont want anyone to have a Christian vote in democracy. Christians can vote , as can anyone else of any other faith.

Bit of a pipe dream I admit, well maybe not here in Canada, but I would like it.

I would prefer that anyone, politician or not, make or vote policy on right and wrong without use of any religious doctrine. For the most part, I think we have achieved that in CDA.

[Figleaf]

His world is split into the blind believers of religion and the enlightened (such as himself) who see flaw in it. I feel totally left out, neither being affiliated with a religion nor caring about discrediting it.

Pretty much like the posters on here who go on about 'dominionism' etc.

Dominionism has only just popped up as a topic in the last few days. It's a very disconcerting philosophy/theology, in terms of it's implications for society and government if it should gain much sway.

I'd be curious to know why some of the more rightwing posters here are so keen to shout down anyone who brings up the subject of dominionism.

I get a sense that the secular humanism cult ...

What is that, pray tell?

[sharkman]

His recurrent themes are that God and Religion are transparently man made and therefore flawed. I think he's over the top on many occasions, such as when he refers to Mel Gibson as an Australian Nazi.

That sounds about right for a self admitted troskyist and a socialist. Personally, I try to read more balanced material.

[M.Dancer]

2nd - MDancer, well that was a wonderful reduction of the British Empire in historical harmless nothingness, when in actual fact in is not even close to being accurate. Take a step outside of the confines of the Hicks and Combee "Christian" historical textbooks, perhaps?

Really? When were the forced conversions and who were the converted?

Throughout the whole British Empire's colonialistic history. Just have a gander through "real history".

Really, do research world history and put away Hicks and Combee's false books that they have erroniously labelled as history.

The British Empire was NOT controlled by the Church of England, anymore than the Queen now controls the Britian.

As you said:

British Empire which was by definition ruled by the head of the Church of England

I mean what after all is "ruled by definition'? Other than absolutely nothing. It is a verbal construct that says nothing and means less.

The British Empire was not a theocracy, except by way of the fact that at differing times, the monarchy was also the head of the Church of England. Except of course for that oh so brief and ugly time under Cromwell. What they did was they pushed their religious beliefs upon the peoples.

Which is basically why, it is NO LONGER a Monarchy, but a democracy.

It was the religious wars, and other activities resulting from religious factions, that prompted the founders of the NEW World, meaning the USA and Canada, not to have a "state religion" they built countries where "freedom of religion" was the foundation.

Also, the British Empire did not build schools and hospitals, the people did. Whether it was done under the auspices of a religious order, a united group/organization of people, or communities themselves, it was built by the people. The British Empire was very good at taking, and did very little giving. Nor did the British Empire truly end slavery.

The Monarchy is the head of the CofE. With tha patronage of the monarchy and the logistics of the empire, the church started schools, hospitals etc etc....in every colony and posession she owned.

This was indeed made to happen by people, religious people common and aristocratic, aided by officers of the realm. And what more the United Kingdom fought slavers from the Barbary coast to the Horn of Africa, and they did so on the urgings of the leaders of the church.

And finally, holding an empire ruled by the Emporer, no one was forced to convert. Not by the missinaries s\upported by the crown, not by the engineers, not by the teachers.

Now I don't know about the amish, but when the Anglican ruled the world........

Now whether Canada had or has a state religion is a matter of debate but not germaine to this discussion

[Drea]

Wait Drea, here's the best part:

"God is a delusion, if his enemies are to be believed: nothing more than the creation of a species with prefrontal lobes too small, and aggressive instincts too strong, for its own good. His worship is poison: his adherents commit child abuse -- metaphoric and actual -- on a daily basis"

Lovely people, these God is poison haters, I wonder what else they think. These are nothing more than bigots, and you are one for your constant smears on religions.

Tough noogies. I will, for the remainder of my life on this beautiful place we call earth, try to wake people up to the fact that there is no invisible dude judging your every move, there is no invisble dude gonna grant you an afterlife, there is no invisible dude period.

Each of us has less than a century to live and we should concentrate on the here and now rather than some weird conspiracy theory that we get to go to heaven if we believe in the correct "god".

"God" should not ever enter into everyday life. "God" belongs only in the heart of the human that believes. Not in our schools, not in our parliament, not in our hosptials, pharmacies or taxi cabs.

[sharkman]

Drea, if you want to accept the writings of troskyist and socialist, who believes that christians all commit child abuse, go ahead. But more balanced views see that for what it is.

[guyser]

Tough noogies. I will, for the remainder of my life on this beautiful place we call earth, try to wake people up to the fact that there is no invisible dude judging your every move, there is no invisble dude gonna grant you an afterlife, there is no invisible dude period.

And that makes you no better than those who proseletyze for religion.

[stignasty]

Drea, if you want to accept the writings of troskyist and socialist, who believes that christians all commit child abuse, go ahead. But more balanced views see that for what it is.

To be fair, Hitchens describes himself as a "former Marxist." He also doesn't limit the child abuse label to Christians. He's all too happy to apply it to all religions. His examples of circumcision and ritual female genital mutilation are the bulk of the chapter on the subject.

As I'm getting near the end of the book, I think it should have been called "If you can't say anything nasty, don't say anything at all." Even though he gives backhanded compliments from time to time he doesn't pull any punches in savaging people like Gandhi and Martin Luther King.

[Drea]

Tough noogies. I will, for the remainder of my life on this beautiful place we call earth, try to wake people up to the fact that there is no invisible dude judging your every move, there is no invisble dude gonna grant you an afterlife, there is no invisible dude period.

And that makes you no better than those who proseletyze for religion.

Well I look at it this way -- if it weren't for the non-believers we would still be stoning and burning witches. If and when secular levelheadedness takes root in Africa and the Middle East we will no longer see women as chattel or female genital mutilation.

Most all injustices in the world are committed in the name of "god". It's shameful that human beings are willing to kill one another (and themselves) for a conspiracy theory (albeit an old one).

My wish is that the world will become secular so that there are no longer people willing to die for an invisible entity.

[guyser]

My wish is that the world will become secular so that there are no longer people willing to die for an invisible entity.

I agree and more.