BC_chick Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 You have shown no evidence that having children sign bombs is Israeli government policy. The mouse cartoons are the creation of the Hamas government of Palestine. They are the first to admit it. I don't recall anyone being reprimanded for the children signing the bombs. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
M.Dancer Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Posted May 17, 2007 You have shown no evidence that having children sign bombs is Israeli government policy. The mouse cartoons are the creation of the Hamas government of Palestine. They are the first to admit it. I don't recall anyone being reprimanded for the children signing the bombs. Why would they? Do you seriously see a similarity between children overjoyed that the roicket attacks would end and programming kids to be suicide bombers..... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
BC_chick Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 Why would they? Do you seriously see a similarity between children overjoyed that the roicket attacks would end and programming kids to be suicide bombers..... From my post to betsy: Are these children being taught to value human life? No, they are being that the ends justify the means and that loss of human-life is an unfortunate aspect of this struggle. Palestinian children are being taught to blow themselves up while the Israeli children are being taught that it's okay to drop bombs on hospitals, schools, bridges and roads just to get to the bad guys. HUGE difference. Sure. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
M.Dancer Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Posted May 17, 2007 Why would they? Do you seriously see a similarity between children overjoyed that the roicket attacks would end and programming kids to be suicide bombers..... From my post to betsy: Palestinian children are being taught to blow themselves up while the Israeli children are being taught that it's okay to drop bombs on hospitals, schools, bridges and roads just to get to the bad guys. HUGE difference. Sure. Well I agree, it is okay to drop bombs on bridges and roads.....but where are you getting the idea that hospitals and schools were bombed? Green helmet man? On the other hand, we have graphic evidence that the plaestinians bomb restaurants, school buses.....do you think they sign the suicide terrorists...what would they say? Goddamn you Zionists for making us endure the best living conditions in the Arabic World!!! Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
BC_chick Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 Well I agree, it is okay to drop bombs on bridges and roads.....but where are you getting the idea that hospitals and schools were bombed? Green helmet man?On the other hand, we have graphic evidence that the plaestinians bomb restaurants, school buses.....do you think they sign the suicide terrorists...what would they say? There was plenty of cited sources. Each claim is referenced at the bottom of the article. http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde180072006 And before you say amensty is biased, they also accused Hezbollah of war-crimes, which, for the record, I am not denying as you suggest I do in your second paragraph. I never have excused Palestinian or Hezbollah crimes, I just speak out against self-righteous indignation when I see the crimes being committed by both sides. Goddamn you Zionists for making us endure the best living conditions in the Arabic World!!! Let me break in to your home, make you live like a second-rate citizen in your own home by forcing you to live in the basement while my children play in the yard, and then question why you complain so much about me breaking into your home when I invested so much in renovating it. IOW, the excellent living standards are not the same for Jewish and Muslim Israelis, and the fact that the place was improved hardly makes up for the fact that it should never have taken away from the Palestinians in the first place. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
kuzadd Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 * nqāwim, "we will resist", is rendered as "we will fight"; * biṭuxxūnā l-yahūd "the Jews shoot us", is rendered as "we will kill the Jews" (!); * 'astašhid "I will be a martyr" as "I will commit martyrdom" (I don't think that's even an English expression, but never mind); * 'ustāđiyyat al-`ālam, literally "professorship of the world" (in context, they clearly mean being at the intellectual forefront of the world), is rendered as "masters of the world". Very intersting. As you mention, the same thing was done to Iran. I remember not just one, but a couple of instances when they misconstrued the words. When challenged on the translation of "biṭuxxūna l-yahūd", the ex-colonel in Israeli military intelligence who runs MEMRI... Enough said. If one goes over to professor Norman Finklesteins site, he also as issues with memri;s 'translation' skills, as very deceptive and misleading. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
kuzadd Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 You have shown no evidence that having children sign bombs is Israeli government policy. The mouse cartoons are the creation of the Hamas government of Palestine. They are the first to admit it. I don't recall anyone being reprimanded for the children signing the bombs. Why would they? Do you seriously see a similarity between children overjoyed that the roicket attacks would end and programming kids to be suicide bombers..... Yes, there are similarities. One that comes to my mind is..... Both actions are teaching kids, that , problems are resolved by simply killing people. Not a very rational teaching is it? secondly the actions teach both sets of kids, that, "they" are the enemies and not worth their humanity, thereby further dehumanizing on another and guaranteeing future continuity of hatred, therefore, fear, therfore, irrationality, therfore continued warfare. that's just two similarities, and I could give more, but those two are devastating enough. It very symbiotic really, when it comes right down to it. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
BC_chick Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 If one goes over to professor Norman Finklesteins site, he also as issues with memri;s 'translation' skills, as very deceptive and misleading. I've seen it first-hand myself as well - not all of us rely on MEMRI's translations. Having said that, many things they say are not pleasant (to say the least), but that does not excuse the gross and deliberate miscontruing of the words. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
kuzadd Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 If one goes over to professor Norman Finklesteins site, he also as issues with memri;s 'translation' skills, as very deceptive and misleading. I've seen it first-hand myself as well - not all of us rely on MEMRI's translations. Having said that, many things they say are not pleasant (to say the least), but that does not excuse the gross and deliberate miscontruing of the words. "I've seen it first-hand myself as well - not all of us rely on MEMRI's translations." what is so weird, is people so dearly want this to be right and true, so they can justify their extremist opinons. Extremism is alive and well in the west, as in the ME, despite what some may claim. "Having said that, many things they say are not pleasant (to say the least), but that does not excuse the gross and deliberate miscontruing of the words." This much is true, to be sure. I find,as of late, IMO, that a great many people are saying alot of unpleasant things, instead of dealing realistically with far too many awful situations. I am a great believer in cleaning up ones own 'neck of the woods' before we busy ourselves with others, so to speak. Thanks for being a voice of reason. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
betsy Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 But BCChick, the concern is not about hypocrisy. I certainly wouldn't equate indoctrinating children to become future suicide bombers....to a "stand-up guy." If you would insist to justify this indoctrination of children to blow themselves up taking as many casualties as they can....then equate it with something similar in scope. Are these children being taught to value human life? No, they are being that the ends justify the means and that loss of human-life is an unfortunate aspect of this struggle. I'm sorry, you're right, there IS a difference. Palestinian children are being taught to blow themselves up while the Israeli children are being taught that it's okay to drop bombs on hospitals, schools, bridges and roads just to get to the bad guys. HUGE difference. Sure. I don't know where you're going with your complaint, but I do know who are the aggressors and who are the victims. And in this 21st century warfare it seems that the victim, due to international pressure, has to spend most of its time worrying about civilian casualties. Even though that same international community knows full well that the aggressors are hiding behind their women and children. Do we have to be explicit about who's who? I don't think so. Quote
scribblet Posted May 17, 2007 Report Posted May 17, 2007 Let me break in to your home, make you live like a second-rate citizen in your own home by forcing you to live in the basement while my children play in the yard, and then question why you complain so much about me breaking into your home when I invested so much in renovating it. Pretty poor analogy actually. If the Pals. spent their time on building greennhouses or building their infrastructure and economy instead of making bombs and indoctrinating their kids to become human bombs, they would be a lot better off now. Much of their situation is of their own making. All they have to do is quit bombing and killing Israelis (and themselves, and there would be more world aid to help them do that. As Golda Meir said: There will only be peace when they love their children more than they hate Israel. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
BC_chick Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Let me break in to your home, make you live like a second-rate citizen in your own home by forcing you to live in the basement while my children play in the yard, and then question why you complain so much about me breaking into your home when I invested so much in renovating it. Pretty poor analogy actually. If the Pals. spent their time on building greennhouses or building their infrastructure and economy instead of making bombs and indoctrinating their kids to become human bombs, they would be a lot better off now. Much of their situation is of their own making. All they have to do is quit bombing and killing Israelis (and themselves, and there would be more world aid to help them do that. As Golda Meir said: There will only be peace when they love their children more than they hate Israel. You obviously didn't understand the analogy or else you would have responded with something relevant. Perhaps you should have read the following paragraph where I explained it. Here it is again: IOW, the excellent living standards are not the same for Jewish and Muslim Israelis, and the fact that the place was improved hardly makes up for the fact that it should never have taken away from the Palestinians in the first place. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 ...IOW, the excellent living standards are not the same for Jewish and Muslim Israelis, and the fact that the place was improved hardly makes up for the fact that it should never have taken away from the Palestinians in the first place. This is folly.....the creation of Israel has more legal standing than either Canada or the USA. When will First Nations be getting their "stolen" land back? Nobody has the right to land...they only have the right to defend possession. Israel does this very well. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 This is folly.....the creation of Israel has more legal standing than either Canada or the USA. When will First Nations be getting their "stolen" land back?Nobody has the right to land...they only have the right to defend possession. Israel does this very well. 1) Israel, unlike the confederations of the Americas, is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As such, they are subjected to different international rules and regulations regarding taking land wherever they see fit. In the 20th century, we no longer (openly) practised the law of jungle where you can just take whatever you like in this world. 2) In making that comparison the the native population to the Americas, may I remind you that it took centuries before the aboriginal population of the Americas resigned to their fate. They fought by any means necessary to hold on to their land. Yet when the Palestinians do the same thing you accuse them of being savages when they are doing what you or any other people on earth would do given the same situation. Incidentally, for the aboriginals as well as for the Palestinians, I find the argument that "well, we really improved things for you" is not exactly consoling. If you recall, that's what the crux of my analogy was implying. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 1) Israel, unlike the confederations of the Americas, is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. As such, they are subjected to different international rules and regulations regarding taking land wherever they see fit. Are you serious? Definition of war: there are no rules 2) In making that comparison the the native population to the Americas, may I remind you that it took centuries before the aboriginal population of the Americas resigned to their fate. They fought by any means necessary to hold on to their land. Yet when the Palestinians do the same thing you accuse them of being savages when they are doing what you or any other people on earth would do given the same situation. Actually, the defensive measures taken varied widely depending on region and tribe. Some even joined the Europeans in conquest. Yet, treaties are still ignored and promises broken. How's that Caledonia thing working out for 'Ya? Or is it more fun just to bash Israel. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
BC_chick Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Are you serious? Definition of war: there are no rules Are you serious? Definition of occupation = respecting international law. Actually, the defensive measures taken varied widely depending on region and tribe. Some even joined the Europeans in conquest. Yet, treaties are still ignored and promises broken. How's that Caledonia thing working out for 'Ya? Or is it more fun just to bash Israel. Caledonia, thanks! Exactly my point. Even after centuries people still fight for their land. Therefore, you are showing nothing but your own personal bias again Palestinians by having different expectations of them when you believe that they are mere savages for fighting for what they believe is rightfully theirs. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Caledonia, thanks! Exactly my point. Even after centuries people still fight for their land. Therefore, you are showing nothing but your own personal bias again Palestinians by having different expectations of them. You are quite mistaken...I have not expressed any expectations for "Palestinians". Indeed, there are Palestinians down my street. Why have you stereotyped all "Palestinians" in such a way? Shameful! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
GostHacked Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Bush Cheney Are you serious? Definition of war: there are no rules More beheadings then. More car bombs then. More suicide bombings. More theft. More rape. More hostage takings. More terrorism. More 9/11s. Remember this post when you start talking about "The Rules". Or you might be considered a hypocrite among other things. Quote
BC_chick Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 You are quite mistaken...I have not expressed any expectations for "Palestinians". Indeed, there are Palestinians down my street. Why have you stereotyped all "Palestinians" in such a way? Shameful! Oh sure, and the fact that you jumped in and responded to a post where I was claiming that Palestinians have a right to fight for their land, and you argued that land is not anyone's to be taken, I was supposed to instinctively know that you are agreeing with my opinion. Of course. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Bush CheneyAre you serious? Definition of war: there are no rules More beheadings then. More car bombs then. More suicide bombings. More theft. More rape. More hostage takings. More terrorism. More 9/11s. Remember this post when you start talking about "The Rules". Or you might be considered a hypocrite among other things. Oh no..not that...a hyp....hypo........HYPOCRITE?????? We had all these things long before 9/11. Nice try..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Oh sure, and the fact that you jumped in and responded to a post where I was claiming that Palestinians have a right to fight for their land, and you argued that land is not anyone's to be taken, I was supposed to instinctively know that you are agreeing with my opinion. Of course. Look....I'm just having some fun running rhetorical circles around you. Palestinians are not a monolithic block, same as Israelis. History will show that Israel had a much better Sugar Daddy. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
kuzadd Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Look....I'm just having some fun running rhetorical circles around you. Palestinians are not a monolithic block, same as Israelis. History will show that Israel had a much better Sugar Daddy. History will show that Israel had a much better Sugar Daddy. Yup,Israel, had the sweetest, sugar daddies. all willing to aid her, and use her if necessary, inc her people, of course , with the consent of her government, to ensure, a foothold is maintained in the ME, oil rich region. Quote Insults are the ammunition of the unintelligent - do not use them. It is okay to criticize a policy, decision, action or comment. Such criticism is part of healthy debate. It is not okay to criticize a person's character or directly insult them, regardless of their position or actions. Derogatory terms such as "loser", "idiot", etc are not permitted unless the context clearly implies that it is not serious. Rule of thumb: Play the ball, not the person (i.e. tackle the argument, not the person making it).
M.Dancer Posted May 18, 2007 Author Report Posted May 18, 2007 Well I agree, it is okay to drop bombs on bridges and roads.....but where are you getting the idea that hospitals and schools were bombed? Green helmet man? On the other hand, we have graphic evidence that the plaestinians bomb restaurants, school buses.....do you think they sign the suicide terrorists...what would they say? There was plenty of cited sources. Each claim is referenced at the bottom of the article. http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde180072006 And before you say amensty is biased, they also accused Hezbollah of war-crimes, which, for the record, I am not denying as you suggest I do in your second paragraph. I never have excused Palestinian or Hezbollah crimes, I just speak out against self-righteous indignation when I see the crimes being committed by both sides. Goddamn you Zionists for making us endure the best living conditions in the Arabic World!!! Let me break in to your home, make you live like a second-rate citizen in your own home by forcing you to live in the basement while my children play in the yard, and then question why you complain so much about me breaking into your home when I invested so much in renovating it. IOW, the excellent living standards are not the same for Jewish and Muslim Israelis, and the fact that the place was improved hardly makes up for the fact that it should never have taken away from the Palestinians in the first place. Before I waste any time on you, are you seriously suggesting it is Israel policy to target schools and hospitals? What was taken away from the Palestinians? nothing. Before someone can take something away, they must forst possess it. The palestinains never had it in the first place. Why should it be Israel's reponsibility how palestinians live in palestine? How can palestinians live as second class citizens in palestrine? Whoi are the first class citiznes? What does Israeli conditions have to do with poalestine? If the palestinians don;'t want to live in slumlike conditions, they are free to give up what keeps them back.....israel doesn't owe them a living..... Green helmet bullcrap Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Guest chilipeppers Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Look....I'm just having some fun running rhetorical circles around you. Palestinians are not a monolithic block, same as Israelis. History will show that Israel had a much better Sugar Daddy. History will show that Israel had a much better Sugar Daddy. Yup,Israel, had the sweetest, sugar daddies. Notwithstanding that Palestine would receive aid if they just could stop those oh so benign activities of theirs. Quote
Guest chilipeppers Posted May 18, 2007 Report Posted May 18, 2007 Argus said:When Israel starts bombing markets and restaurants of no military value with no military targets you can then make your claim to equivilency. Until that happens you are simply excusing terrorism against the people you don't like. They cannot make an equivilency because there isn't one. Strange how these two creatures seem to find the whole situation a LOL matter. I wonder if they would find it so funnyy if there on the receiving end of a Palestinian child bomber or a rocket attack bet they wouldn't be laughing then.Notice they still have not condemned the MM propaganda could it possibly mean the silence mean they condone it - nah say it isn't so. They won't condemn it as we have seen they will only condemn Israel. Anyone tried asking bcat about the holocaust and how many were killed. Speaking about that fine line of anti semitism, try asking B_cat about the holocaust and how many were 'really killed' try it you might like it Quote
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