Maple Leaf Forum

bush_cheney2004 · April 15, 2007

I wonder if the Pentagon Discovery Channel will show that OKC was an inside job.

Actually, the Discovery Channel demonstrated that one truck bomb can and did generate assymetric blast forces at the pressure levels estimated by FEMA (about 5500 psi).

Government - 1

Conspiracy Theory Losers - 0

Figleaf · April 16, 2007

Actually, the Discovery Channel demonstrated that one truck bomb can and did generate assymetric blast forces at the pressure levels estimated by FEMA (about 5500 psi).

Oh sure. And NATURALLY we can ALWAYS trust the Discovery Channel to expose Earth-shaking truths about the Secret Masters. :lol:

bush_cheney2004 · April 16, 2007

Oh sure. And NATURALLY we can ALWAYS trust the Discovery Channel to expose Earth-shaking truths about the Secret Masters.

No, you can trust smart television producers to take the opportunity to expose conspiracy theories to closer inspection, just like the moon hoax wankers.

Figleaf · April 16, 2007

Oh sure. And NATURALLY we can ALWAYS trust the Discovery Channel to expose Earth-shaking truths about the Secret Masters.

No, you can trust smart television producers to take the opportunity to expose conspiracy theories ...

Yes. Yes, that's exactly what to expect. Sort of my point, really.

PolyNewbie · April 16, 2007

Actually, the Discovery Channel demonstrated that one truck bomb can and did generate assymetric blast forces at the pressure levels estimated by FEMA (about 5500 psi).

Discovery channle also says 911 wasn't an inside job. I'll trust the navy bomb expert and the congressional testimony over a propoganda outlet for the Pentagon.

I stopped watching Discovery after the fact that they are the Pentagon became obvious. I stopped reading PM for the same reason - used to buy the odd issue. Now you don't see it on newstands.

Greg · April 17, 2007

I was wondering that too, how long will they continue to fund it, and will we get to see the results of the study.

Just to be clear, the University of Lethbridge is only a partner of Maple Leaf Web. There is no study attached to to Maple Leaf Web and if the University pulled out of the partnership, we would NOT be closing our doors.

Greg (and we) must pick and choose who participates here. It is simply wrong to believe that anyone can.

Yes and no. Everyone has the opportunity to participate. However, continued participation relies on their ability to be civil and put forward reasonable arguments.

If you read the rules and guidelines, the first rule is:

Mapleleafweb operates these forums in the hopes that they will promote intelligent, honest and responsible discussion. We encourage you to speak your mind on relevant issues in a thoughtful way. Please respect others using this board and treat them with respect and dignity.

I think we can agree that we don't always treat each other "respect and dignity." Many of the members need to work on these qualities. However, it would be impossible to maintain a forum that did not contain some indiscretions. Actually, the best way to avoid indiscretions would be to close the forum altogether.

I ask that everyone be patient with the forum as a whole and other individual forum members. I've been moderating this forum since the very beginning (late 2000) and this recent "conspiracy theory" surge is just a fad. This forum has gone through a great deal of transformations - some good, some bad (most of which are out of my control). However, lets not get too carried away and leave because a few members are posting on topics that are a bit "off-topic."

I'll do my best to ensure that "intelligent, honest and responsible discussions" are taking place. I need everyone else to think about whether their contribution to the forums is indeed "intelligent, honest and responsible."

Greg · April 17, 2007

Also,

there will NOT be a forum dedicated to conspiracy theories. Sorry, but most conspiracy theories are not based on reliable facts and often do not meet the forum requirement of "intelligent, honest and responsible discussion."

I'll allow the existing conspiracy threads to continue. However, I'll be removing and or editing any thread that I feel falls outside reasonable debate.

Remiel · April 17, 2007

You know, I used to be more sympathetic to the plight of natives, BEFORE I encountered trolls like Tsi and Posit...

scribblet · April 17, 2007

You know, I used to be more sympathetic to the plight of natives, BEFORE I encountered trolls like Tsi and Posit...

Actually they really didn't help their cause did they? I read some of their posts on another site, more people should to get a feeling of what some of them are really about.

August1991 · April 21, 2007

I just had a quick read through this thread.

I ask that everyone be patient with the forum as a whole and other individual forum members. I've been moderating this forum since the very beginning (late 2000) and this recent "conspiracy theory" surge is just a fad. This forum has gone through a great deal of transformations - some good, some bad (most of which are out of my control). However, lets not get too carried away and leave because a few members are posting on topics that are a bit "off-topic."

Greg, I have to agree with your sensible advice and opinion.

Internet forums are a work in progress. Terms like "flame wars", "trolls" and "flouncing" have changed their meaning since altnet.

Keep in mind something though. This forum is a street corner, a bar or a cafe with one major difference: anyone in the world can stop in here and the only cost to them is their time.

In front of any large university, there are dedicated lunatics who stand in the rain handing out leaflets. Imagine what such people could do on an Internet forum. Earlier today I recall checking MLF and the top three threads I saw concerned "conspiracy theories" (WTC etc) and alien technology.

Greg, let me put this another way. If I knew of another forum that offered active, intelligent English-language left/right debate about Canadian politics without the 911 nonsense, I'd leave MLF.

For those who think that makes me closed-minded, I beg to differ. I once quit MLF to protest Greg's banning of a left-wing poster. I enjoy reading, for example, Dobbin, Figleaf, Margrace - even if I often disagree. IMV, their opinions are sometimes wrong but their posts contribute to "intelligent, honest and responsible discussion". A poster who debates "alien technology" or WTC7 does not.

Maybe, in the future, like newspapers in teh past, there will be high end Internet forums and low end Internet forums. I hope MLF doesn't turn into a grocery store tabloid, or a university folding table.

Let's see where this goes.

Mad_Michael · April 25, 2007

I hope MLF doesn't turn into a grocery store tabloid, or a university folding table.

A bit too late for that hope. It is a done deal.

Count me amongst those who have walked away from this toxic forum.

Ironically enough, several of those whom I consider to be the worst trolls are busy having their usual fun in this very thread. How typical.

Goodbye.

Figleaf · April 25, 2007

I hope MLF doesn't turn into a grocery store tabloid, or a university folding table.

A bit too late for that hope. It is a done deal.

Count me amongst those who have walked away from this toxic forum.

Ironically enough, several of those whom I consider to be the worst trolls are busy having their usual fun in this very thread. How typical.

Goodbye.

Welcome back Mad Michael! Perhaps Greg's recent announcement of a zero tolerance policy (q.v. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....0entry212191) will satisfy your demands for forum conditions that permit you to continue to participate. If not, it's always nice to hear your opinions anyway, even though you've left. ?

betsy · May 21, 2007

HMMMMmmm, I smell the cries for censorship, and wonder why?
exercise your own free choice, participate or not.

post where you want, we are all capable, are we not?

or do we need babysitters to censor discussion for us.

I think not.

why do you think so?

WELL KUZADD....For once we agree!

betsy · May 21, 2007

If you want a PUBLIC FORUM, it has to remain public.....and censorship is not acceptable, or reasonable.

You have to accept that there will be opinions you won't agree with, and learn to deal with it in whatever way you choose.

August, if you want to set up an EXCLUSIVE FORUM, where you choose participants based on topic, level of education, or (he-he) intelligence, set one up with a system of application. Verifiable to whatever degree you think is important.

The idea of censoring a public forum is somewhat offensive, unless your main objective is to CONTROL content.

Higgly · May 21, 2007

Intelligent, reasoned discourse is an admirable goal, but anyone who has watched the various party spin meisters on programs like Don Newman's Politics or ROB TV's Squeeze Play know that even under well-managed circumstances, things can get a bit silly.

It's possible to make things more sane by the employment of some form of rules of order, but that takes a lot of work on the part of moderators. This would set out a framework under which suspensions and banning can be made to work. But the cost is pretty high.

Some forums I have participated in have a platoon of moderators to keep things on track, but they are generally specific-purpose sites dealing with narrow subjects such as sailing, automobiles, what have you. You can say we are debating politics, but really what we are debating is life on a global scale, and that is kind of a tough horse to corale (thought I'd throw in a nod to you Westerners ).

Sometimes I find it's a good idea to take a week or two off. Posting here constantly can get you pretty worked up. Maybe it's just me :unsure: ?

scribblet · May 21, 2007

Sometimes I find it's a good idea to take a week or two off. Posting here constantly can get you pretty worked up. Maybe it's just me ?

I agree, but it might also be a good idea to ignore some people. I don't normally use the ignore button because it takes away from the whole thread, and can be a bit silly, but I've decided in light of the recent inane comments about myself to start using it. You can still read them if you choose, but it saves time scrolling by.

Summer is coming (I think) and a good time to take a break.... -

May 21, 2007

I hope MLF doesn't turn into a grocery store tabloid, or a university folding table.

A bit too late for that hope. It is a done deal.

Count me amongst those who have walked away from this toxic forum.

Ironically enough, several of those whom I consider to be the worst trolls are busy having their usual fun in this very thread. How typical.

Goodbye.

Hmmm too bad I agree it is turning toxic in some areas. The personal insults and childish rants are heating up from someone who turned her previous forum into a swamp. It closed fortunately but MLW is too big there are more people to handle their rants

Higgly · May 21, 2007

I see an opportunity here. Canada has a certain image worldwide. Tolerant, erudite, just, embracing, transparent...

How many other places in the world can match it? The Scandanavians, maybe. Who else?

This is The Big Debate. I say gear up and go global.

geoffrey · May 21, 2007

Canada has a certain image worldwide. Tolerant, erudite, just, embracing, transparent...

If the rest of the world saw this forum, I think they'd disagree with all of those.

cybercoma · May 22, 2007

I think it's more accurate to say that the rest of the world sees Canada as being inconsequential.

August1991 · May 22, 2007

August, if you want to set up an EXCLUSIVE FORUM, where you choose participants based on topic, level of education, or (he-he) intelligence, set one up with a system of application. Verifiable to whatever degree you think is important.
The idea of censoring a public forum is somewhat offensive, unless your main objective is to CONTROL content.

The French forum language where I occasionally participate is run along the lines that you suggest. It works - and that's no mean feat given Quebec's toxic divide on la question nationale.

I have no fear of legitimate debate. My fear here is different.

The world is filled with people who have serious psychological problems. Posting to a Canadian political forum won't help these people and while their nonsense may entertain some briefly, it's not truly entertainment.

Thanks (or not) to a post by Kimmy, I discovered a real nutjob. Watching the linked youtube file, I was disturbed less by her nonsense than by the realization that people such as this woman could easily take over and destroy legitimate web discussions.

IMV, successful Internet forums need to be protected from the lunatic fringe.

Canuck E Stan · May 22, 2007

IMV, successful Internet forums need to be protected from the lunatic fringe.

You need to join a private club forum made up of individuals like yourself.

This way you can keep the riff-raff you tend to want to reject away from your forum.

I personally accept the public air-waves of this internet forum and think Gregg is doing a decent enough job in getting rid of the extremes.

No one is making you stay here,you can venture to other forums and not return.No notice is required.

No one will care and many others will take your place.

Higgly · May 22, 2007

If the rest of the world saw this forum, I think they'd disagree with all of those.

I think it's more accurate to say that the rest of the world sees Canada as being inconsequential.

I've travelled extensively, lived abroad, and known a number of people who were driven out of their native countries by persecution and war. Yes, there are a few who see us that way - mostly British and Americans :lol: . For the most part, we are viewed as an ideal.

I guess my post was over the top, but I am in favour of a public forum.

betsy · May 22, 2007

Thanks (or not) to a post by Kimmy, I discovered a real nutjob. Watching the linked youtube file, I was disturbed less by her nonsense than by the realization that people such as this woman could easily take over and destroy legitimate web discussions.
IMV, successful Internet forums need to be protected from the lunatic fringe.

I understand what you mean, and I agree with you.

One thing we can do is to remind these people when they are being disruptive, right on the spot!

Sometimes we need to get into an "in-your-face" attitude to those who do these things intentionally, and get to the point of it....no beating around the bush.

They disrupt or distract because they do not agree to the subject or the way the opinions are headed (which is against their own opinion)...so they'd rather shut down the discussion. It's like, "if I don't like the subject and if I don't approve with your reasons, then nobody gets to discuss this! Thread over."

Their behaviour is a form of bullying...and you stand up to bullies!

Sometimes the instigator starts and a few posters takes the bait and get sidetracked. We could only remind them, and get the discussion right back on track. If they still persist, then we know it's being deliberately done.

Challenge them by bluntly pointing out their disruptive behaviour! I'd mention their names!

Quote or support your accusation with a link so they understand what exactly is it that we're complaining about.

But like I said, usually the disruption is not intentional. I myself had been guilty of these crime. Most of us will comply and get back in line when reminded that we're disrupting the real issue of the discussion.

A person who gets challenged often enough will find that she/he will eventually get that stigma....and they end up losing their credibility. Who takes the opinions of lunatic extremists seriously? That's what I'm doing from now on.

If we all try to do this, I'm sure disruptive behaviours will dramatically lessen.

If they persist, then it's up to the complaining individual if he/she wants to report it to Greg.

I, personally, save the "reporting" part for things I consider very serious.

dre · May 25, 2010

Gotta be careful about using the "Conspiracy Theory" label. Dismissing someone as a "Conspiracy Theorist" because their opinion sounds far fetched to you is one of the most common forms of logical fallacy and intellectual dishonesty.