U.S. Presidential Elections 2008

[jdobbin]

I knew you and Bluth have often accused dobbin of making personal attacks when all he ever does is ignore you, but have you guys become so obsessed with him that you're starting to imagine he's there when he isn't?

Am I being accused of a personal attack? I must have missed something in this thread.

[jbg]

I knew you and Bluth have often accused dobbin of making personal attacks when all he ever does is ignore you, but have you guys become so obsessed with him that you're starting to imagine he's there when he isn't?

You both have attacked me, and accused me of being a closet or actual Republican. You both hail from Winnipeg. I detect a pattern.

[BubberMiley]

You both have attacked me, and accused me of being a closet or actual Republican. You both hail from Winnipeg. I detect a pattern.

We're never in the same room at the same time either.

But since when is calling someone a Republican an attack, especially when they admit to voting Republican? That's more like calling a spade a spade. If I were a Republican (though I promise never to claim to be one in order to make my hare-brained lefty ramblings seem more centrist), I would be offended that you would consider that an insult.

Edited May 16, 2008 by BubberMiley

[sharkman]

No, you called jbg dishonest, that was also what he termed a personal attack, which for some reason you ignored.

In my view calling him a republican is just more of your misunderstanding of the mainstream democrat party. You will probably call all McCain democrats in the upcoming election republicans too, since they won't vote according to your narrow leftwing view of how a dem should vote.

[bush_cheney2004]

...In my view calling him a republican is just more of your misunderstanding of the mainstream democrat party. You will probably call all McCain democrats in the upcoming election republicans too, since they won't vote according to your narrow leftwing view of how a dem should vote.

Agreed....it is unfathomable to them that political identification and choices could be more complex than a simple binary state. I wonder what they consider Republicans who vote for a Democrat to be?

[jdobbin]

McCain flip flops on Hamas?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/16/mcc...amas/index.html

On CNN's "American Morning" Friday, Rubin -- a former assistant secretary of state in the Clinton administration and a supporter of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign -- said McCain's criticism of Obama's position was hypocritical.

"When he was in Davos (Switzerland) amongst the European crowd and I interviewed him there two years ago, he was talking as if it was appropriate and natural and reasonable to negotiate with Hamas, the new government of the Palestinian territories," Rubin said.

"And then two years later, he's taking a very, very different position ... smearing people for suggesting that one ought to talk to Hamas when it was he himself who was prepared to talk to Hamas two years ago."

I'm sure we'll be seeing people dig for those interview recordings now to see what McCain said.

[BubberMiley]

Agreed....it is unfathomable to them that political identification and choices could be more complex than a simple binary state.

This from those who ridicule "nuance," say "you're either with us or against us," and have the most "binary" foreign policy outlook imaginable.

[August1991]

In my view calling him a republican is just more of your misunderstanding of the mainstream democrat party. You will probably call all McCain democrats in the upcoming election republicans too, since they won't vote according to your narrow leftwing view of how a dem should vote.

Sharkman, I think that jbg and Bubbler are raising a legitimate point.

To Canadians, Republican and Democrat are just labels that almost seem interchangeable. For some Americans, it's a different story. It is difficult for someone who has identified as, say, Democrat to vote for a Republican. It's tantamount to being disloyal.

McCain's campaign will have to make it easy for these voters by calling them "Democrats for McCain" or some such. I would also expect to see alot of ticket-splitting in this election. I don't think McCain has very long coattails.

[jbg]

McCain's campaign will have to make it easy for these voters by calling them "Democrats for McCain" or some such. I would also expect to see alot of ticket-splitting in this election. I don't think McCain has very long coattails.

He'll have no coattails at all. The Democrats' majority will likely be stable and/or increase. 1972 all over again.

[jdobbin]

To Canadians, Republican and Democrat are just labels that almost seem interchangeable. For some Americans, it's a different story. It is difficult for someone who has identified as, say, Democrat to vote for a Republican. It's tantamount to being disloyal.

I think that both parties have been who are more on the right wing or on the left wing. I think we have seen here that there are some people that are more comfortable with staying a Democrat but basically taking Republican views. I think we see Lieberman as an example in the U.S. as someone who still claims to be a Democrat but is siding more and more with with Republicans on everything from their candidates to their policies. I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually joins the party.

[bush_cheney2004]

... I think we see Lieberman as an example in the U.S. as someone who still claims to be a Democrat but is siding more and more with with Republicans on everything from their candidates to their policies. I wouldn't be surprised if he eventually joins the party.

The Democrats have a long tradition of progressive, moderate, and conservative membership. JFK would be considered "right wing" on many policies today, and recently as Bill Clinton we had a Democrat president who recognized the more conservative leanings of America. "Dixiecrats" and later Reagan Democrats were true to this reality. Within the Democrat Party, the term "progressive" is specifically used to differentiate very left leaning members from the rest of the party, and was last lead by the late Senator Paul Wellstone (D - MN).

[jdobbin]

Huckabee steps into it.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080516/.../huckabee_obama

epublican Mike Huckabee responded to an offstage noise during his speech Friday to the National Rifle Association by suggesting it was Barack Obama diving to the floor because someone had aimed a gun at him.

Hearing a loud noise and interrupting his speech, Huckabee said: "That was Barack Obama. He just tripped off a chair. He's getting ready to speak and somebody aimed a gun at him and he - he dove for the floor."

There were only a few murmurs in the crowd after the remark.

I think the NRA must have been equally upset by the comment.

I wonder if the comment is enough to keep Huckabee off the ticket.

Edited May 17, 2008 by jdobbin

[August1991]

US President George W. Bush and Republican presumptive nominee John McCain do not understand foreign policy, Senator Barack Obama says.

In a Saturday speech at a town hall in Oregon's Roseburg, the Democratic frontrunner once again slammed Bush for attempting to draw parallels between negotiating with US enemies and appeasing the Nazis in World War II.

"The fact that they are trying to make this into an issue indicates they don't understand how foreign policy works," said Obama.

"If George Bush and John McCain have a problem with direct diplomacy, led by the president of the United States, then they can explain why they have a problem with John F. Kennedy, because that's what he did with Khrushchev. Or Ronald Reagan, because that's what he did with Gorbachev. Or Richard Nixon; because that is what they did with Mao."

Link

In fact, Reagan refused to meet any Soviet leader and only met Gorbachev in 1985 after Thatcher had met him. Iran, Syria and North Korea are entirely different regimes and threats.

Nevertheless, it's an interesting take and Obama is likely going to say "Bush" every time he says "McCain" from now to November.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Nevertheless, it's an interesting take and Obama is likely going to say "Bush" every time he says "McCain" from now to November.

Senator Obama is revealing himself to be a tin horn when it comes to such things...he had to invoke reminders from the more experienced Senator Clinton about how to conduct diplomacy (e.g. managed agenda). He is running against the past, while not promising much in the way of substance for the future.

I don't know if America has time to give Obama on-the-job training.

[sharkman]

Link

Nevertheless, it's an interesting take and Obama is likely going to say "Bush" every time he says "McCain" from now to November.

Yes, this whole flap over Bush's remarks in Israel is so obviously a manufactured one by Obamas handlers. It was apparent to anyone who pays attention to foreign affairs that Bush was referring to Jimmy Carter since he had recently been over there chatting it up with Hamas. I'll bet the Bush administration was really ticked about it since real progress is being made between Israel and Palestine.

So anyway, I believe you are correct, and Obama's strategy will be to paint McCain with the Bush brush every time he can. It should be easy enough for McCain to counter since he's a small r republican, and his record clearly shows it.

[Remiel]

Now, if only you people would step up to the plate in regards to the Conservatives when they spend all of their time campaigning against the past Liberal government instead of doing their damn jobs.

If Obama were a Republican candidate, you would be cheering him on. Neither his " inexperience " nor his campaigning against a Clinton past would be bothering you in the slightest. Maybe you should be worrying about the substance of your own comments instead of his.

[bush_cheney2004]

...If Obama were a Republican candidate, you would be cheering him on. Neither his " inexperience " nor his campaigning against a Clinton past would be bothering you in the slightest. Maybe you should be worrying about the substance of your own comments instead of his.

Nonsense....even the presumed nominee Senator John McCain is taking his own lumps from Republicans and conservatives.

[August1991]

Mr Obama's aides are increasingly pushing the message that he has all but wrapped up the Democratic nomination and will be the one to face Mr McCain in November's general election.

"As we near victory in one contest, the next challenge is already heating up," campaign manager David Plouffe wrote in an e-mail to supporters on Monday.

"President Bush and Senator McCain have begun co-ordinating their attacks on Barack Obama in an effort to extend their failed policies for a third term."

BBC

Third term? Yadda, yadda, yadda.

Meanwhile, Hillary won Kentucky with 65% of the popular vote. I'll give Obama credit that he has finally won a truly Democratic state but then I'd rather win Kentucky than Oregon. To win the White House, the past five presidents all won Kentucky.

[sharkman]

If Obama were a Republican candidate, you would be cheering him on. Neither his " inexperience " nor his campaigning against a Clinton past would be bothering you in the slightest. Maybe you should be worrying about the substance of your own comments instead of his.

If Obama were a republican, he would have been forced out of the race after 2 weeks of the din raised by the democrats and the media in regards to Rev. Wright. He would have been hounded like no tomorrow on this issue. The press would have not let this go and it would have created its own force 5 storm.

For each of the 2 Wright moments, he got a 2 day affair from the press, then the love in resumed. It's all good for me though. He hasn't won many key states over Hillary, and his support among Dems incudes 90% of blacks. That may win you the nomination, but it sure won't win you the office.

Edited May 21, 2008 by sharkman

[gc1765]

Canadians prefer Obama to McCain by almost 4-1 margin:

Ottawa — Democrat Barack Obama would crush Republican John McCain in the U.S. presidential race by an almost four-to-one margin — 56 per cent to 15 — if it were up to Canadians.

That's the conclusion of a new Canadian Press-Harris-Decima poll that, for the first time, gauges Canadian opinion on a head-to-head contest between the Republican candidate and the presumptive Democratic nominee.

Canadians don't seem to like Bush either:

The same survey suggests Canadians consider the current occupant of the White House, George W. Bush, among the worst presidents ever — if not the worst.

Forty-two per cent of respondents called Mr. Bush one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, 23 per cent said he was the absolute worst.

Only 4 per cent said he was among the better ones, and less than 1 per cent called Mr. Bush the best ever.

link

[bush_cheney2004]

Canadians prefer Obama to McCain by almost 4-1 margin:

This bodes well for Senator McCain.

I wonder how Mr. Dion would do with American voters? Wait...first they would have to know who/where he is!

[jbg]

For each of the 2 Wright moments, he got a 2 day affair from the press, then the love in resumed. It's all good for me though. He hasn't won many key states over Hillary, and his support among Dems incudes 90% of blacks. That may win you the nomination, but it sure won't win you the office.

Especially given the fact that Obama has trouble with the Hispanic vote. If Obama loses California as a result he's cooked, since the whole concept of Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky et. al. being "swing" states relies upon California going blue.

[jbg]

This bodes well for Senator McCain.

I wonder how Mr. Dion would do with American voters? Wait...first they would have to know who/where he is!

Who is Mr. Dion? Husband of singer Celine?

[gc1765]

Especially given the fact that Obama has trouble with the Hispanic vote. If Obama loses California as a result he's cooked, since the whole concept of Ohio, West Virginia, Kentucky et. al. being "swing" states relies upon California going blue.

I think Obama just might pick Richardson as his running mate. If he does, I don't think he has to worry about losing the Hispanic vote.

[jdobbin]

I think Obama just might pick Richardson as his running mate. If he does, I don't think he has to worry about losing the Hispanic vote.

I have always thought Richardson was a possible for Clinton or Obama.