U.S. Presidential Elections 2008

[bush_cheney2004]

Well, if you're going to stoop to your typical neocon of lies and innuendo and shoddy facts, don't forget John McCain killed hundreds:

http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and...ss_forresta.htm

If you're going to play that game. get your lie straight.....about 135 killed...not "hundreds".

[August1991]

I hate to brag, actually I don't. But it looks as though my political acumen is quite high, as this is something I've been saying for a while now. I guess it took the MSM a little time to catch up. It's quite obvious, as I've said in other threads, that Obama must pick Hillary as his VP. He has no choice now.

Some people questioned why Hillary didn't dive out of the race in May, or April, or March. Well, this is why. She holds considerable political capital, and can now begin to wield it. You may not like Hillary, but she's a very smart person, and an even smarter politician.

You can flip through this thread to see how almost every poster here has made wrong predictions.

The fall campaign has all the makings of 1972 redux or Joe Lieberman in Connecticut. Hillary Clinton is smart enough to see that and she's planning for 2012 now. That means that she must support wholeheartedly Obama - except for being on a losing ticket. As to Obama, his one claim to fame is that he's the new kid on the block. Having a Clinton on his ticket undermines that claim completely. So, neither Hillary nor Obama want her to run as Number Two.

[HisSelf]

Clinton has now bowed out. Her speech indicated that she wanted the Dems to throw their support behind the next President of the United States, Barack Obama. You could tell from the expression on her face that this was not an easy speech to make.

Good-bye John McCain.

Edited June 7, 2008 by HisSelf

[bush_cheney2004]

Clinton has now bowed out. Her speech indicated that she wanted the Dems to throw their support behind the next President of the United States, Barack Obama. You could tell from the expression on her face that this was not an easy speech to make.

Clinton thought she would win too....how'd that work out ?

[HisSelf]

Huh? I tot I hoid a pussycat.

Irrelevancies aside, now would be a good time for Obama to declare Hillary Clinton his running mate.

Unbeatable fer sure.

Edited June 7, 2008 by HisSelf

[August1991]

Irrelevancies aside, now would be a good time for Obama to declare Hillary Clinton his running mate.

If Obama did that, he would remove the single chance he has of winning in November: he's a new guy who offers real change.

An Obama-Clinton bumper sticker is just a reminder that Obama is the same old, same old. (BTW, his new lapel pin and his decision to jettison his 20-year pastor suggest that Obama's a savvy same-old, same-old politician underneath the cigarette-smoking, thin body/skin.)

If Obama declares Hillary Clinton as his running mate, how can he go to the American people as truly a change? Clinton? Heck, Hillary's over 60. If Hillary's the Dem Veep candidate, how can Obama use age as an issue?

Obama's not going to choose Hillary as his Number Two, and she doesn't want the spot anyway. I have the funny feeling that Obama will have no problem refusing people for the ticket but he'll have major trouble finding people. Those who will want to run will not be the people he wants.

[gc1765]

Obama's not going to choose Hillary as his Number Two, and she doesn't want the spot anyway. I have the funny feeling that Obama will have no problem refusing people for the ticket but he'll have major trouble finding people. Those who will want to run will not be the people he wants.

I agree with most of your post except for this part. First of all, I doubt Hillary would refuse the VP nomination if it were offered. Hillary is ambitious, and being VP wouldn't be too shabby. Secondly, I doubt Obama will have trouble finding people. Bill Richardson is another name that a few people seem to be throwing around as a possible choice, and it seems to me that he too would take it if offered.

[jbg]

Well, if you're going to stoop to your typical neocon of lies and innuendo and shoddy facts, don't forget John McCain killed hundreds:

http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and...ss_forresta.htm

Do you have a mainstream source for that rubbish?

[BubberMiley]

Do you have a mainstream source for that rubbish?

No, I was just pointing out that, if pushed, Democrats can stoop to equally low levels as Republicans. Your rubbish about Vince Foster doesn't even come with a source, nevermind a mainstream one.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, I was just pointing out that, if pushed, Democrats can stoop to equally low levels as Republicans. Your rubbish about Vince Foster doesn't even come with a source, nevermind a mainstream one.

But you are not a Democrat, right? And if you want to pretend, at least get the lies straight!

[BubberMiley]

But you are not a Democrat, right? And if you want to pretend, at least get the lies straight!

No, I'm not. As I said, I'm pointing out how Democrats could stoop as low as Republicans should they so choose. I think Democrats bringing up the Forrestal incident with reference to McCain is about par with Republicans bringing up the Vince Foster incident with reference to Hillary.

[bush_cheney2004]

No, I'm not. As I said, I'm pointing out how Democrats could stoop as low as Republicans should they so choose. I think Democrats bringing up the Forrestal incident with reference to McCain is about par with Republicans bringing up the Vince Foster incident with reference to Hillary.

No it's not...the conflagration onboard USS Forrestal was caused by the unintended electrical start of a Mk-32 Zuni rocket during power switching on an F-4 Phantom, not "wet starting" an A-4 Skyhawk. The rocket did not detonate per design, but it pierced a fuel tank. It is one of the most scrutinized incidents in US Navy history, and remains a legend in damage control training. Another "incident" involving the ZUNI rocket occurred on USS Enterprise.

In other words, their is little mystery about how the conflagration was started, as it was filmed for posterity. I personally worked with a 16mm print of the film back in the 1970's, frame by frame.

So go ahead pretend Democrats or proxies....try to swift boat Senator McCain with the USS Forrestal fire....and be shredded by the facts.

[peter_puck]

Clinton has now bowed out. Her speech indicated that she wanted the Dems to throw their support behind the next President of the United States, Barack Obama. You could tell from the expression on her face that this was not an easy speech to make.

Good-bye John McCain.

She had the look of a lying politician on her face. I don't think did much to erase the damage she caused.

[jbg]

She had the look of a lying politician on her face. I don't think did much to erase the damage she caused.

Truest statement I've heard in a long time.

[Wild Bill]

Christopher Andersen, touted as a New York Times bestselling author, wrote a book in 2004 on Hillary titled "American Evita".

It was a real eye-opener and quite prophetic as to this last campaign.

The incident that struck me the hardest was when Hillary took the podium at a ceremony for those rescue workers who lost their lives in the fall of the Trade Towers. The police, firemen and such booed her and turned their backs on her! They knew when they were being used for a photo-op.

The booing went out on the initial live telecast but in subsequent clips the audio was covered up with canned crowd noise.

If I were cast adrift in a lifeboat with Hillary and surrounded by sharks I would feel safer jumping in with Great Whites than being in the boat with Hillary!

[BubberMiley]

So go ahead pretend Democrats or proxies....try to swift boat Senator McCain with the USS Forrestal fire....and be shredded by the facts.

Haven't you learned that facts re irrelevant to a good swiftboating? Republicans understood long ago that people's eyes glaze over when provided with "facts" like "unintended electrical start of a Mk-32 Zuni rocket during power switching on an F-4 Phantom." You just need one shmoe to say "I think John McCain was reckless and killed those men." and you've done all the damage you need to do.

And as Republicans can create an imaginary video out of thin air of Michelle Obama referring to "whitey," Democrats can actually provide evidence that Cindy McCain stole drugs from charities to feed her drug addiction and McCain used his power as a senator to protect her from a federal sentence.

That one's even easier. It isn't even a lie.

[Guest American Woman]

Christopher Andersen, touted as a New York Times bestselling author, wrote a book in 2004 on Hillary titled "American Evita".

It was a real eye-opener and quite prophetic as to this last campaign.

The incident that struck me the hardest was when Hillary took the podium at a ceremony for those rescue workers who lost their lives in the fall of the Trade Towers. The police, firemen and such booed her and turned their backs on her! They knew when they were being used for a photo-op.

The booing went out on the initial live telecast but in subsequent clips the audio was covered up with canned crowd noise.

If I were cast adrift in a lifeboat with Hillary and surrounded by sharks I would feel safer jumping in with Great Whites than being in the boat with Hillary!

Do you realize that during Clinton's 2006 re-election campaign New York City's two major firefighter unions endorsed her?

"She's been a leader out front on World Trade Center health issues, and God knows New York City firefighters were exposed more than any other group and we appreciate it," said Steve Cassidy, president of the Uniformed Firefighters Association.

Asked why she didn't have their endorsement in the past, Cassidy said: "Firefighters are skeptical of everybody. In general, politicians have to win our support, and she has done that."

link

Edited June 9, 2008 by American Woman

[bush_cheney2004]

Haven't you learned that facts re irrelevant to a good swiftboating? Republicans understood long ago that people's eyes glaze over when provided with "facts" like "unintended electrical start of a Mk-32 Zuni rocket during power switching on an F-4 Phantom." You just need one shmoe to say "I think John McCain was reckless and killed those men." and you've done all the damage you need to do.

Wrong....Senator Kerry made the fatal mistake of not fighting back. McCain also has a lot more credibility with American veterans because of his POW experience; he also didn't testify before a Congressional comittee about US soldiers being "war criminals". So go ahead....pretend to be a Democrat swiftboater.

And as Republicans can create an imaginary video out of thin air of Michelle Obama referring to "whitey," Democrats can actually provide evidence that Cindy McCain stole drugs from charities to feed her drug addiction and McCain used his power as a senator to protect her from a federal sentence.

That one's even easier. It isn't even a lie.

I sure hope so...that would play much beter compared to the Mike Dukakis debate debacle when asked about his wife being assaulted.

[jbg]

Do you realize that during Clinton's 2006 re-election campaign New York City's two major firefighter unions endorsed her?

That "endorsement" looks unimpressive in view of the fact that Hilary was the shoe-in winner for re-election in 2006 and it's better to be on the good side of an inevitable victor than the bad side. The GOP nominee was a "sacrifice lamb". I cannot even remember who they ran.

[peter_puck]

So go ahead pretend Democrats or proxies....try to swift boat Senator McCain with the USS Forrestal fire....and be shredded by the facts.

The problem is that facts don't seem to matter in switfboating. Look at the last time McCain faced this. It was South Carolina and he had Bush on the ropes. Bush "supporters" responded with A) Push polls implying that McCain had fathered a black child out of wed lock Flyers distributed in churches that stated McCain was gay, C) email bursts stating that his wife was a drug addict, D) various rumours about his mental health ?

Did facts shred these rumours ? NO. McCain's lead over Bush evaporated and Bush went on to win the presidency despite being a ..ah forget it.

Did truth shred the "swift boaters" themselves ? No. They were mocked by the well-read, but the well-read are a minority.

The one thing going for McCain this time is that guy showed himself to be an utter idiot by claiming the jews and the marxists were involved. I would be awful for a guy like McCain to loose to dirty politics again.

[peter_puck]

Democrats can actually provide evidence that Cindy McCain stole drugs from charities to feed her drug addiction and McCain used his power as a senator to protect her from a federal sentence.

That one's even easier. It isn't even a lie.

Years ago she became addicted to perscription pain killers because of a real and painfull physical condition.

I hate to break it to you, but Cindy McCain's drug problem with perscription drugs would not rate a federal sentence.

A) She was a first time offender

It was a long time ago

C) She was put on the drugs by a doctor because of severe pain

D) Was an outstanding member of the community - not a criminal

The fact that it was a politicians wife probably made this go further than it would have otherwise.

[bush_cheney2004]

Did facts shred these rumours ? NO. McCain's lead over Bush evaporated and Bush went on to win the presidency despite being a ..ah forget it.

Even if it happened as you describe, that wasn't "swiftboating". Did the "black babies" conspire against McCain?

The one thing going for McCain this time is that guy showed himself to be an utter idiot by claiming the jews and the marxists were involved. I would be awful for a guy like McCain to loose to dirty politics again.

All is fair is love, war, and politics. But it won't be the USS Forrestal fire....that would have the opposite effect, pushing more voters to McCain.

[peter_puck]

Plus Bill has baggage that McCain will use in the dirtiest way possible. As well, Bill won't allow himself to be fully vetted.

I don't think so. McCain has more character than most of the other politicians combined.

As for Bill being vetted - he was under constant investigation by a Kenneth Star for what seemed like most of his time in office. He has got to be the most vetted man on earth.

[peter_puck]

Yeah, it's hard to believe she will be able to play second banana. Maybe after seeing what Cheney was able to do with his puppet, she's getting ideas...

I don't see her from being a second banana either. After this campaign it is clear that she is looking out for her own interests, not her parties (or anyone elses). She would make her decisions based on becoming president in 2012.

If I were Obama I would not want her as VP. That would make her one heart beat away from the presidency - it would make you think twice about drinking a cup of coffee she gave you :-)

[peter_puck]

Even if it happened as you describe, that wasn't "swiftboating". Did the "black babies" conspire against McCain?

What I describe is very well documented. It is "Switfboating" by the common definition.

As for the black babies conspiring....WTF ???????

All is fair is love, war, and politics. But it won't be the USS Forrestal fire....that would have the opposite effect, pushing more voters to McCain.

You are probably right...I don't think the Forrestal is a good choice - which is obvious by the fact that the guy with the link is clearly an amateur.

With Kerry they attacked his strong point - his military record. Although you have to be careful, attacking McCain's might be that tactic. Playing his torture confessions, pointing to the special treatment he got from Vietnam. Implying that his high ranking father got him special treatment.

Maybe you could have a couple of fellow POWs doing a swiftboat style interview complaining about McCains special treatment while they suffered. Reading parts of his torture-confession. that sort of thing.

Of course, it would be very dishonest, but if you could get some vietnam era POW's talking about sell-out it would be his word against their (Kerry had military records to back him up)

There is SOME truth to it

A) McCain did get better treatment than the other prisoners (because of his fathers rank).

His father was very high in the US military in Vietnam (at one point commanded the navy there I believe)

C) McCain did make a confessions (after torture).

That along with some swift-boater style BS might work.

Just so nobody misuderstands, I am just talking about how something could be spun in a swift boater like attack.