Abolish All Minimum Wage Legislation

[August1991]

The federal NDP has argued in favour of raising the federal wage to $10 per hour and Quebec solidaire has argued the same in the current Quebec election. I think that in Ontario, the Toronto Star has advocated raising the provincial minimum wage to $10 per hour.

At present, across Canada, State legislation makes it illegal to pay anyone less than around $7 to $8 per hour. Provincial minimum wage laws affect far more people than federal law.

I think governments should simply abolish these laws and not legislate minimum wages at all. This is the case in most Scandinavian countries.

If we are serious about helping people earning low wages, we should do this through other means than minimum wage laws. For example, we should directly help people with children or people with disabilities. Minimum wage legislation is a crude and unfair way to achieve this. Earned income supplements, cuts in payroll taxes (EI, CPP or health premiums) and higher personal tax exemptions are better ways to achieve these goals.

One argument in favour of minimum wage laws is to overcome the supposed weak bargaining power or simple ignorance of some employees. I happen to question this argument. But one solution would be for the Revenue Agency to post on the Internet, if an employee accepts, information about pay rates. In this way, everyone would know what employers are paying their employees. This could be done in a way that does not identify a specific employee.

Governments have an important role to play in an economy. Regulating wages and prices is not one of these roles. Minimum wage laws are not progressive.

[Charles Anthony]

I second the motion!

However:

Governments have an important role to play in an economy.

...and a lot less responsibility in an economy.

Individuals have a MORE important role to play in the economy.

[Posit]

QUOTE(August1991 @ Feb 27 2007, 09:46 PM) *

Governments have an important role to play in an economy.

I agree! Their role is to redistribute the wealth, mostly from the rich to the poor. Setting minimum wages in one of those roles and should not be abolished. I think that perhaps going to a minimum wage of $20 per hour would make much more sense, especially where the CEO of the company takes more than 20 times the lowest hourly wage.

[seabee]

Not only should minimum wage should be abolished, but slavery should be made legal once again.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. But this would be the logical folow-up.

[Renegade]

Not only should minimum wage should be abolished, but slavery should be made legal once again.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. But this would be the logical folow-up.

If you can have slavery without coericion then yes it should be legal. I'm not being sarcastic of course.

[Leafless]

Not only should minimum wage should be abolished, but slavery should be made legal once again.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. But this would be the logical folow-up.

If you can have slavery without coericion then yes it should be legal. I'm not being sarcastic of course.

We do have legal slavery which is best defined as being ' a helpless victim of some dominating influence'.

[White Doors]

I agree 100% with you August.

Of course in Canada's political climate of perception on the left and the reality of the right, it will never happen.

[blueblood]

Not only should minimum wage should be abolished, but slavery should be made legal once again.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. But this would be the logical folow-up.

If you can have slavery without coericion then yes it should be legal. I'm not being sarcastic of course.

Why not use the scores of people we have in jail, we'd be able to fund the prison system then. Not even the Chinese can compete with free labor.

[myata]

Wouldn't it be, like, coersion??

Generally on the topic, as most simplistic and one-sided solutions, this one is deeply flawed. History has many times over showed us that left on their own, (some) businesses are prone to abuse and will try to extract extra profit (pun intended) whenever possible. Minimum wage legislation is an important guard against such abuse. It is also simple and clear to understand message to both employees and employers, as to what level of pay is fair.

[Charles Anthony]

Wouldn't it be, like, coersion??

How about you raise minimum wage to $100 dollars an hour?? Everybody will have to work 10 times less than at $10 hour, right????

History has many times over showed us that left on their own, (some) businesses are prone to abuse and will try to extract extra profit (pun intended) whenever possible.

-- and when businesses do not make YOUR extra profit, then what happens???

Your minimum wage would put people out of work.

Some people have a dream-like vision of business that should never leave the covers of a Karl Marx comic book.

Not only should minimum wage should be abolished, but slavery should be made legal once again.

I'm being sarcastic, of course. But this would be the logical folow-up.

You may be sarcastic but your comment is silly.

I challenge the lazy socialists to ask an employer of people at minimum wage how a forced rise will affect their ability to hire MORE employees or to maintain the SAME hours for their existing employees.

[M.Dancer]

I think governments should simply abolish these laws and not legislate minimum wages at all. This is the case in most Scandinavian countries.

Scandenavian countries don't have a problem with cheap chinese and mexican labourers..........they also have very progressive welfare systems.

So if you don't mind families falling apart because the lower strata need to work 16 hours a day, or if the youth feel that petty crime is more viable than working for slave wages...then lets do it. The corrwponding increase in jobs in the security and justice industries should offset the ensuing social collapse.

[geoffrey]

I agree! Their role is to redistribute the wealth, mostly from the rich to the poor.

By what right do you take ones money and give it to someone else? What entitles the poor person to anything more than they have?

So if you don't mind families falling apart because the lower strata need to work 16 hours a day, or if the youth feel that petty crime is more viable than working for slave wages...then lets do it. The corrwponding increase in jobs in the security and justice industries should offset the ensuing social collapse.

Your ignoring the reality of the situation. Most people don't make minimum wage, in fact, only a small chunk of student labourers and unskilled people do.

And if a Mexican can do it cheaper, why not? Frees up the Canadian to do something else.

Raising the minimum wage or even having it, prevents companies from opening up training opportunities for these people that are otherwise not viable at minimum wage.

In a excellent job seeking market like we have today, there is absolutely zero need for minimum wage legislation.

[M.Dancer]

Your ignoring the reality of the situation. Most people don't make minimum wage, in fact, only a small chunk of student labourers and unskilled people do.

feel free to back that up.

[M.Dancer]

And if a Mexican can do it cheaper, why not? Frees up the Canadian to do something else.

In a excellent job seeking market like we have today, there is absolutely zero need for minimum wage legislation.

Freeing up Canadians is the problem.....they get freed to table dance, panhandle.......

......define excellent job seeking market? We have places in canada with near double digit unemployement....where entire industries pay less than minimum wage and would pay even less if they could get away with it, knowing that for some, the low paying jobs are the only thing that separates them from being criminals.....but hey, what's wrong with shoplifting, anyway?

[geoffrey]

feel free to back that up.

Sure: http://www.hre.gov.ab.ca/documents/LMI/LMI...wageprofile.pdf

5.5% of people in Canada make minimum wage. In Alberta 53.8% are 15-19 and 2/3 are under 24.

[M.Dancer]

feel free to back that up.

Sure: http://www.hre.gov.ab.ca/documents/LMI/LMI...wageprofile.pdf

5.5% of people in Canada make minimum wage.

And that ain't much to you?

Abolishing minimum wage is just an excuse to allow slavery of the unskilled.....and a great way to justify new prisons...or legalizing whorehouses

[gc1765]

What's wrong with having a minimum wage? I could understand if unemployment were high and paying the minimum wage was a significant barrier to hiring, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Especially considering that many of the unemployed are simply transitionally unemployed and so abolishing the minimum wage won't affect them.

Minimum wage is a delicate balance, set it too high and there will be unemployment, but at the current rate ($8 per hour in most places) it doesn't seem to be negatively affecting employment.

[Charles Anthony]

What's wrong with having a minimum wage?

Not all employers make a lot of profit. That is the problem.

[madmax]

What's wrong with having a minimum wage?

Not all employers make a lot of profit. That is the problem.

And what about the ones that make a hell of a lot of profit and pay minimum wage?

Obviously if you abolished the minimum wage, alot more employers would make alot more in profit.

There debate with the minimum wage is that it isn't market based, but needs based.

Those employers whom are just getting by with minimum wage help are probably going to go tits up when the price of gas, oil, hydro, supplies, etc. increase.

While there are solutions that no Province has choosen to try, the mere excuse that "not all employers make alot of profit" is a poor excuse.

[Charles Anthony]

And what about the ones that make a hell of a lot of profit and pay minimum wage?

Nothing.

Obviously if you abolished the minimum wage, alot more employers would make alot more in profit.

As they should. Would you rather work for an employer that is successful or one that is on the brink of going bankrupt?

There debate with the minimum wage is that it isn't market based, but needs based.

You are just picking winners and losers.

[Posit]

The reality of business (as a small business owner) is that employees are a business expense and do not come out of the "profits". And if any business is making so little that it must try to steal from its employees to show profitibility, then it deserves to go "titties" up. That just isn't smart business.

And no, the business will not go under if the minimum wage goes up. It will just have to consider all the business expenses when setting its new prices. And I would say that if the business, or the market can't handle that then it is time to close the doors. The business is a waste of time.

[geoffrey]

The reality of business (as a small business owner) is that employees are a business expense and do not come out of the "profits".

Expenses don't come out of profits??!

I think I missed that class???

[Canadian Blue]

Why would we want to get rid of the minimum wage, isn't that just a sure fireway for most people to go back into poverty. I think the minimum wage should be set so that people working fulltime jobs can at the veryleast make above the poverty line. As well how would we protect people from becoming something similar to sweatshop workers if large corporations decide to lower wages.

We've come a long way, I don't really feel like going back to the 19th century.

[Charles Anthony]

And if any business is making so little that it must try to steal from its employees to show profitibility,

Would you raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour if you had the power?

And I would say that if the business, or the market can't handle that then it is time to close the doors. The business is a waste of time.

And YOU would put their employees out of work.

Twisted.

Why would we want to get rid of the minimum wage,

The reason why we should get rid of the minimum wage is because some people are willing to work for less.

isn't that just a sure fireway for most people to go back into poverty.

Why would it??

I think the minimum wage should be set so that people working fulltime jobs can at the veryleast make above the poverty line.

What right do you have to force that on everybody???

As well how would we protect people from becoming something similar to sweatshop workers if large corporations decide to lower wages.

Easy.

Large sweatshop corporations would never come to Canada. They would go to some other part of the world.

We've come a long way, I don't really feel like going back to the 19th century.

Your worries are unfounded.

[blueblood]

Easy.

Large sweatshop corporations would never come to Canada. They would go to some other part of the world.

If I could rub a lamp, those prisons would be sweat shop and the wage prisoners would get is repaying their debt to society.