CBC reports settlement between government and Arar

[August1991]

Didn't Milgaard get twenty two million, one for every year he spent in prison?

David Milgaard is about to receive the largest compensation package in Canadian criminal history. The Saskatchewan government has announced it will hand Milgaard $10 million in compensation for being wrongfully imprisoned for almost a quarter of a century.

CBC

I imagine that all these payments are taxable.

[jdobbin]

I doubt the government has the right to settle this without taking it to court. Arar wouldn't have been awarded his entire demand. He likely would have been awarded far less as long as we didn't have an activist judge.

Why is he unable to work now, that's my other question. He's taking PhD studies full time and making press conferences. The guy can work, he just wanted a nice big torture bonus from the government, something else that would never have stood up in court (due to the fact there is no evidence other than him saying so that he was tortured).

The government could call all of the consular staff, the Red Cross people, whoever, to testify that he never made a claim of torture or ever appears to have been tortured... until he talked to his lawyers in Canada.

The government settles cases all the time. So do corporations.

As far as the rest of your claim, I suspect the government weighed out going to court but since it would reveal much secret detail of of how they determine who is on a watch list, I think they took the course of action they did.

[geoffrey]

I am constantly suprised by the vitriol spewed by some posters I otherwise like on this issue. Would you volunteer to go to Syria to be possible tortured for a year and maybe even killed for a measly $10 million?

I'm not a Syrian that hangs out with terror associates and then goes to the US though.

There is something in law called 'contributory negligence.' I say Arar contributed to his own demise.

He also had the ability at any time to tell the consular staff he was being tortured and he would have been freed on political pressure the next day. They couldn't kill him, it'd be an international issue and Syria would realise the price.

Didn't Milgaard get twenty two million, one for every year he spent in prison?

David Milgaard is about to receive the largest compensation package in Canadian criminal history. The Saskatchewan government has announced it will hand Milgaard $10 million in compensation for being wrongfully imprisoned for almost a quarter of a century.

CBC

I imagine that all these payments are taxable.

$500k a year is understandable. Arar spent what, hardly a year? $10mil a year is a pretty good salary for an IT pro.

[Leafless]

I am constantly suprised by the vitriol spewed by some posters I otherwise like on this issue. Would you volunteer to go to Syria to be possible tortured for a year and maybe even killed for a measly $10 million?

Arar suffered no lasting effects from his alleged torture, or it certainly would have been reported.

I would go through what he did for a measly $1-million. Anytime!!!!!

[geoffrey]

I am constantly suprised by the vitriol spewed by some posters I otherwise like on this issue. Would you volunteer to go to Syria to be possible tortured for a year and maybe even killed for a measly $10 million?

Arar suffered no lasting effects from his alleged torture, or it certainly would have been reported.

I would go through what he did for a measly $1-million. Anytime!!!!!

Yup, me too, I'd go to Syria and sit in a cell for a year. Why not?? $10mil is alot of cash.

[newbie]

Arar suffered no lasting effects from his alleged torture, or it certainly would have been reported.

The "effects" don't necessarily show up until years later.

[geoffrey]

Arar suffered no lasting effects from his alleged torture, or it certainly would have been reported.

The "effects" don't necessarily show up until years later.

Then we compensate him when they do... or rather those that tortured him in Syria can compensate him... if in fact, he was even tortured at all.

[Saturn]

And Saturn, how much was my share of this $10 million to Arar? About 30 cents. That's what makes it terrifying. It is so easy for Stephen Harper to take 30 cents from every Canadian and give it to one person of his choosing.

When a government employee commits an offense, why should I, a taxpayer, suffer all the consequences?

When an employee of a company screws up, the shareholders pay. Since Canada is a democracy, we are the shareholders of our government and its institutions. When Enron and Worldcom screwed up, how much the shareholders pay? When CIBC paid $2.4 billion in settlement for its participation in the Enron affair, it probably cost you more than 30 cents but did you complain about it? When a crown corporation brings in a billion dollars in profit, do you insist that the profit should be split among its employees?

Now instead of complaining about your 30 cents and blaming the victim, you should let your elected representatives know that they will be held accountable for their actions. As much as you like to distance yourself from the federal government, it is there, and you are indirectly responsible for what they do.

[Saturn]

The Conservative position on Arar at the time he was detained and sent to prison for torture was as follows:

Harper: "While the minister participated in high level consultations to defend a suspected terrorist, it apparently took a trip by the U.S. Secretary of State for the minister to admit what he really knew."

Diane Ablonczy: "It is time the Liberals told the truth: that their system of screening and security checks is pathetic. Arar was given dual Syrian and Canadian citizenship by the government. It did not pick up on his terrorist links and the U.S. had to clue it in.

How is it that the U.S. could uncover this man's background so quickly when the government's screening system failed to find his al-Qaeda links?"

The Conservative position was that Arar was a terrorist and that he should have been tortured in a Canadian jail.

Now, do you expect Harper to go through a lengthy lawsuit during an election campaign where his skeletons would be brought out of the closet over and over again? Not only has he p.o'd Muslims for openly siding with Israel, but he would be criticized over and over again for assuming and insisting that a Canadian citizen must be a terrorist even though he had no evidence to support this accusation. And then his support for the RCMP and lying Zaccardelli would be brought out of the closet too. At the end of it all, it would have made Harper look bad and it would have cost as much in legal fees and compensation. Any reasonable person in Harper's place, would have settled out of court quickly and swept the issue under the carpet.

[Catchme]

The Conservative position on Arar at the time he was detained and sent to prison for torture was as follows:

Harper: "While the minister participated in high level consultations to defend a suspected terrorist, it apparently took a trip by the U.S. Secretary of State for the minister to admit what he really knew."

Diane Ablonczy: "It is time the Liberals told the truth: that their system of screening and security checks is pathetic. Arar was given dual Syrian and Canadian citizenship by the government. It did not pick up on his terrorist links and the U.S. had to clue it in.

How is it that the U.S. could uncover this man's background so quickly when the government's screening system failed to find his al-Qaeda links?"

The Conservative position was that Arar was a terrorist and that he should have been tortured in a Canadian jail.

Now, do you expect Harper to go through a lengthy lawsuit during an election campaign where his skeletons would be brought out of the closet over and over again? Not only has he p.o'd Muslims for openly siding with Israel, but he would be criticized over and over again for assuming and insisting that a Canadian citizen must be a terrorist even though he had no evidence to support this accusation. And then his support for the RCMP and lying Zaccardelli would be brought out of the closet too. At the end of it all, it would have made Harper look bad and it would have cost as much in legal fees and compensation. Any reasonable person in Harper's place, would have settled out of court quickly and swept the issue under the carpet.

You are exactly correct saturn! And people need to remember exactly why Harper as complying so readily.

That is not saying Arar did not deserve compensation, as he did, and the sum well that is up for dispute I guess for me. As I am still thinking about it.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Any reasonable person in Harper's place, would have settled out of court quickly and swept the issue under the carpet.

So Harper took the reasonable path in this case?

That is the closest thing to a compliment you have ever paid our PM.

[jbg]

Maher Arar asked for the impossible: “I wish I could buy my life back.”

G & M

"Buy my life back?"

What about Steven Truscott? Did he receive 10 million dollars? Did he receive such quick justice? Did he have access to lawyers who could negotiate contingency fees?

Steven Truscott is not of political interest to Stephen Harper.

Who is/was Steven Truscott?

[guyser]

Who is/was Steven Truscott?

Is.

Stephen Truscott was charged and convicted of murder in the death of 12 yr old Lynne Harper. Truscott was 14 at the time and had given the girl a ride on his bike.This was in June 1959

He was wrongly convicted as the trial missed all sorts of info showing his innocence. Both lived on an air force base in eastern Ontario. Since the verdict people have come forward to ssay they did in fact lie at the trial.

He is trying to have his name cleared , and a verdict should come down sometime this spring.

Here is the wiki file on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Truscott

[jdobbin]

Is.

Stephen Truscott was charged and convicted of murder in the death of 12 yr old Lynne Harper. Truscott was 14 at the time and had given the girl a ride on his bike.This was in June 1959

He was wrongly convicted as the trial missed all sorts of info showing his innocence. Both lived on an air force base in eastern Ontario. Since the verdict people have come forward to ssay they did in fact lie at the trial.

He is trying to have his name cleared , and a verdict should come down sometime this spring.

Here is the wiki file on it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Truscott

Moreover, he was sentenced to death at 14.

[gc1765]

But worse, anyone makes a claim usually pays a deductible and sees their premiums go up.

IOW, insurance doesn't absolve one of suffering teh consequences of one's actions. In the Arar case, all that I've seen is that Zaccardelli resigned, taking early retirement.

Consider for example the consular official who saw Arar in prison in Damascus. Or how about the CSIS/RCMP agents who concluded that Arar was a risk. How many civil servants made mistakes in this case? Will they suffer in any tangible way, appropriate to the mistake they made?

Good point...but I take it from this post that you are not so much opposed to the fact that Arar received a settlement as you are to the fact that the civil servants were not punished? I agree with that, if it can be proven that civil servants made mistakes then absolutely they should be dealt with, but that doesn't change the question of whether Arar should receive compensation (of course the actual dollar amount is another issue - and I agree it is very high).

[mikedavid00]

Somewhere mikedavid is in a white coat with lots of buckles and a padded room going stark raving mad at this.

That or trying to get the Gov to send him to the US and then syria.

Yes I was freaking out.

People were calling the radio station all day really mad and upset at the settlement. It's funny. The Arab community knows his tactics and games. They just call him a liar and cheater. But they are from the third world. They know these games. They know how these things are done. We're all gulible. Many third world practices are etnering Canada and people don't realize it yet. Schooling, hiring, eating.. it's just non apparent to most.

But my fiance brought home World Of Warcraft last week so i've been busy with that this whole time.

[mikedavid00]

Money to the government spent in court, especially when trying to set a precedent, really means nothing to government.

I believe the government would have won regardless.

This was all about minority votes....Muslim votes.

I also find this horribly despicable.

Bingo.

Arar really had no case in court. No evidence at all.

[Black Dog]

geoffery

On what basis can you award $10mil. Canada was contributory to his deportation, but that's where it ends. I say lost wages and perhaps a cushy government job for him. What else does he deserve?

Don't ask me. IANAL.

The torture also would be tough to prove in court. There is absolutely zero evidence. In fact, the numerous times he was visisted by the Red Cross and consular staff without protest is evidence to the contrary.

What a load. If you were locked up and being tortured, would you blab to the RC or consular officials when there's a good chance that divulging that information will get you dead?

Of course then there's the fact that the Canadian ambassador was waiting for the Syrians to pass on whatever info they beat got out of Arar even while he was suppossed to be working to secur ehis release, which certainly points to greater level of government involvement than a couple of "misguided" or "crooked" cops.

A Syrian is subject to the laws of Syria while in his country. Again, like I said, if it were the other way around and a Syrian-Canadian were charged in Canada, I'd say Syria has no business in what happens.

You keep glossing over the part where he was traveling on a Canadian passport and that the only reason he was "subject to Syrian laws" was that we sent him to Syria against his will.

Again, if individuals at the RCMP made up false claims about Mr. Arar then they should be punished and pay compensation. Not me. I had nothing to do with this.

From a practical standpoint, do you think it's a good idea for people involved in national security issue sto be dragge dinto the light of public scrutiny? The individuals were acting on behalf of the state, the state acting on behalf of the citizens.

No. Canada did not. Some corrupt individuals at the RCMP did. No elected official had a hand in this, you didn't have a hand in this, nor did I. So why are we paying as much as those at the RCMP that made the errors?

Again: on whose behalf were the RTCMP members acting?

Remember the Americans deported him within the law back to a country of citizenship. Why have American courts rejected his claims but our govenrment settled outright when we are far less liable than the Americans or the Syrians that are alleged to have tortured him.

The U.S. lawsuit was thrown out because of "national security concerns" and the need for secrecy (interestingly enough, the judge who tossed Arar's U.S. lawsuit did so because of the damage that might ensue if information about the extent of Canadian official's involvement come to light).

Again, not by policy, but by the actions of a few crooked cops.

How do you know they were "crooked?"

If a Canadian diplomat kills a foreign in a hit and run, would you serve a portion of his jail time because he was acting on your behalf?

Did he do it for national security purposes?

He also had the ability at any time to tell the consular staff he was being tortured and he would have been freed on political pressure the next day. They couldn't kill him, it'd be an international issue and Syria would realise the price.

Yeah, just like Iran was so helpful in the Zahra Kazemi case.

Yup, me too, I'd go to Syria and sit in a cell for a year. Why not?? $10mil is alot of cash.

You know what? I'd pay for that, if only to see what happens to you.

[Leafless]

Blackdog

Order in the court room, order in the court room!

Here come duh JUDGE!

[jbg]

Money to the government spent in court, especially when trying to set a precedent, really means nothing to government. I believe the government would have won regardless. This was all about minority votes....Muslim votes. I also find this horribly despicable.

Bingo. Arar really had no case in court. No evidence at all.

The problem is that he could have used "discovery" to build a case. That means, as a practical matter, that sensitive and possibly confidential documents would have been turned over to Arer's counsel, and Arer's counsel would have had the right to take deposition testimony from CSIS, RCMP and other officials with delicate portfolios.

Given the obviously disastrous connotations of his counsel's likely litigation strategy, folding was the Crown's best option.

[Remiel]

For some reason, people who keep crying about Arar and his failure to use the Canadian embassy complete ignore the Master Nationality Rule. To put it simply, they had absolutely no legal right under international law to see him. And the United States undoubtedely knew that when they deported him.

[Leafless]

The problem is that he could have used "discovery" to build a case. That means, as a practical matter, that sensitive and possibly confidential documents would have been turned over to Arer's counsel, and Arer's counsel would have had the right to take deposition testimony from CSIS, RCMP and other officials with delicate portfolios.

Given the obviously disastrous connotations of his counsel's likely litigation strategy, folding was the Crown's best option.

The U.S. shrugged off Arar's sue attempt by claiming national security concerns.

Canada could of done the same.

Don't forget the reason for Canada's involvement and subsequent payoff was for results from the Arar Inquiry basically supplying the wrong information to the U.S. that resulted in Arar's deportation to his birthplace Syria and the all important torture allegations.

Of course if Arar sued in court he would have to prove his torture allegations, something the Syrians no way were to be involved. And he would have to prove if Canadian authorities allegations of terrorist suspicions were unreasonable, something that would be hard to prove considering his association with individuals with obvious ties to terrorist Abdullah Almalki and Ahmad El Maati.

There is also the claim Canadian officials believe that the U.S. was conducting an investigation of Arar prior to Dec.11th. Second, it notes was under American investigation in February of 2002. What triggered those investigations, no one is saying.

I believe the Conservatives took the easy way out especially for a bid for Muslim votes and to defuse potential Islamic aggression in Canada.