Look who's concerned about weaponization of space

[myata]

The US was in the fore front of space weapons development with its now (in)famous Star Wars program.

Now it's looks like it's causing them grave concern when someone else is trying to follow in their tracks: Yahoo story.

Yet another case of "Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi" which seem to have become a motto of american international policy?

[Guthrie]

Shrub's swagger is sticking out on this one.

If China get's moderately good at targetting and taking out satellites, they may be able to take away America's advantage of holding the high ground in a war ---

there is good reason to have concern -- but as you note - really, it's just the hubris of the rightwing revolution coming back to bite us on the ass

[bush_cheney2004]

This is most excellent, and not a better reason can be found for countermeasures, escalation, and dancing in the cubicles of the Military Industrial Complex. When China lands men/women on the Moon, the Americans will wave on their way to Mars.

[Drea]

With what money?

Space exploration is a rather expensive endeavour and it seems all the US's money is being funnelled into making up wars at the moment.

[bush_cheney2004]

With what money?

Space exploration is a rather expensive endeavour and it seems all the US's money is being funnelled into making up wars at the moment.

We'll just print some more like PolyNewbie says...then China and Japan will buy the debt (Treasuries).

That's how we got to the Moon too....almost 40 years ago.

Besides, Canada made a fortune on the Vietnam War.

[Guthrie]

The shortsighted militarists want to spend the money of those future generations who should be colonizing space but can't because they are working three jobs to cover the interest on the national debt.

[bush_cheney2004]

The shortsighted militarists want to spend the money of those future generations who should be colonizing space but can't because they are working three jobs to cover the interest on the national debt.

Shucks, in Canada they work three jobs to pay for the Gun Registry!

[Guthrie]

yeah? what was the budget for the gun registry last year?

[bush_cheney2004]

yeah? what was the budget for the gun registry last year?

Depending on how you measure the disparate parts, about $100 million CDN in 2006. Total to date about $2 BILLION. All for the IT Project From Hell. We use the Canadian Gun Registry to teach how not to run an n-tier IT project.

[Guthrie]

yeah? what was the budget for the gun registry last year?

Depending on how you measure the disparate parts, about $100 million CDN in 2006. Total to date about $2 BILLION. All for the IT Project From Hell. We use the Canadian Gun Registry to teach how not to run an n-tier IT project.

Bush spends more than that in Iraq on a weekly basis -- for a whole year, that's a bargain.

[Argus]

The US was in the fore front of space weapons development with its now (in)famous Star Wars program.

Now it's looks like it's causing them grave concern when someone else is trying to follow in their tracks: Yahoo story.

Yet another case of "Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi" which seem to have become a motto of american international policy?

That doesn't mean it's not a concern. The Chinese, despite what all the lefties and idiots would like to believe, have not, so far as I can tell, moderated one single iota. As their economy has grown and they've taken in billions and billions in western money, they have directed a very large chunk of that money, more than to anything as prosaic as health care or relieving poverty - towards their military. They're building more missiles, more warships, more and better fighters, bombers, and tanks. Their military was already enormous given there is no conceivable outside threat to China. Now they are working on making that military more capable of striking enemies at greater distances. The military buildup is really extraordinary given they are at peace with no threats on the horizon. Their military budget is expected to go up another 10%-15% next year. Yet no one seems to care, assuming that they are no threat to us.

The Chinese are a threat. The only reason they were a minor threat in the past was due to their lack of technology and economic muscle. They are now in the process of acquiring that technology and economic muscle - with the aid of the West. They are also getting bolder at asserting their interests around the world and expanding their influence, particularly in the third world, where a little money goes a long way.

And despite the placid face they put on for the world, this is still a hard-line, murderous regime bent on power at any cost. They still routinely threaten war against Taiwan, for example, and with the confidence of first rate technology, numbers, and geographic advantage, I have to wonder how long it will be before they go for it, and use numbers to swamp the island's defenses. The Chinese are doubling or tripling their amphibious capability every year - for what? That could easily wind up with a nuclear exchange between them and the Americans.

Another major danger point is oil. The Chinese are coming to need more and more of it, and right next door is a huge pool of oil controlled by a corrupt cesspool of feeble governance with an incompetent, poorly equipped military. The Chinese must be gazing at the resources in Siberia with considerable interest.

But all people think of when they look to China is cheap appliances.

[Leafless]

The Chinese are a threat. The only reason they were a minor threat in the past was due to their lack of technology and economic muscle. They are now in the process of acquiring that technology and economic muscle - with the aid of the West. They are also getting bolder at asserting their interests around the world and expanding their influence, particularly in the third world, where a little money goes a long way.

The Chinese are playing the game like any other country with political interest.

The point of the matter though is who owns outer space relating to killer satellites?

The tiny strip around the earth that harbours satellites is controversial. The Chinese are being accused of not co-operating with treating that strip of space as a 'civil space area'.

The problem I have with this is if indeed this strip is reserved for electronic communications serving the world, then what the hell are spy satellites doing there.

As much as I hate to say it the Chinese could be within their rights, to protect their national interest.

[GostHacked]

But all people think of when they look to China is cheap appliances.

Part of the problem is that the Western Corpoorations have moved their manufacturing processes over to China for it is cheaper for them to make our cheap crap. Most of your computer stuff comes from China, so it is not hard to surmise that China will eventually get better weapons for the military due to this. I am sure China was just not looking at an economic advantage, but also a technological one.

The US simply wants to deny anyone to space and the strategic importance that is space. HERE COMES A CHALLENGER !!!

I can hear the rhetoric now against China. ohhh bad China.

[Argus]

But all people think of when they look to China is cheap appliances.

Part of the problem is that the Western Corpoorations have moved their manufacturing processes over to China for it is cheaper for them to make our cheap crap. Most of your computer stuff comes from China, so it is not hard to surmise that China will eventually get better weapons for the military due to this. I am sure China was just not looking at an economic advantage, but also a technological one.

The US simply wants to deny anyone to space and the strategic importance that is space. HERE COMES A CHALLENGER !!!

I can hear the rhetoric now against China. ohhh bad China.

Are you going to suggest China is NOT bad?

[myata]

The issue is not of transcendental moral (who's ultimately good and who's evil) but of practicality. A peaceful or stable world cannot be built of entities which trust themselves to be the forces of universal goodness while everybody else is at best second standard, at in the worst, the evil incarnate.

On the other hand, stability, if not universal trust and love and understanding, can be achieved if countries first applied same standards as they want the others to abide by, to themselves.

[Borg]

China - a country that receives aide from various world agencies. A country with a top notch air force, a world class navy, a nuclear energy program, a nuclear weapons program and an excellent space program.

A country that will receive even more free money from the Kyoto accord - Europe is now placing billions in Chinese coffers for carbon credits. And this money goes to develop the various military and space programs.

Yup, with a double digit econimic growth factored in it would appear to me that China should be sending aide to Canada.

Look out - this is a country that is not to be trifled with.

They do not play fair and do not give a damn about consequences - if they want it they will take it.

A massive population and possibly the strongest military in the world today.

Their time is soon to be at hand and we will quite possibly not like it when they do decide to impose their will upon some country.

Borg

[Argus]

The issue is not of transcendental moral (who's ultimately good and who's evil) but of practicality. A peaceful or stable world cannot be built of entities which trust themselves to be the forces of universal goodness while everybody else is at best second standard, at in the worst, the evil incarnate.

On the other hand, stability, if not universal trust and love and understanding, can be achieved if countries first applied same standards as they want the others to abide by, to themselves.

Oh, you mean how you guys hate, despise and demonize the Americans but couldn't care less how many innocent people are being tortured and killed by the Chinese?

[Black Dog]

That doesn't mean it's not a concern. The Chinese, despite what all the lefties and idiots would like to believe, have not, so far as I can tell, moderated one single iota. As their economy has grown and they've taken in billions and billions in western money, they have directed a very large chunk of that money, more than to anything as prosaic as health care or relieving poverty - towards their military. They're building more missiles, more warships, more and better fighters, bombers, and tanks. Their military was already enormous given there is no conceivable outside threat to China. Now they are working on making that military more capable of striking enemies at greater distances. The military buildup is really extraordinary given they are at peace with no threats on the horizon. Their military budget is expected to go up another 10%-15% next year. Yet no one seems to care, assuming that they are no threat to us.

The real problem is that people are spending more time worrying about a country with the military clout of Belgium than they do this emerging and hostile superpower.

[blackascoal]

The Chinese are a threat. The only reason they were a minor threat in the past was due to their lack of technology and economic muscle. They are now in the process of acquiring that technology and economic muscle - with the aid of the West. They are also getting bolder at asserting their interests around the world and expanding their influence, particularly in the third world, where a little money goes a long way.

The Chinese are playing the game like any other country with political interest.

The point of the matter though is who owns outer space relating to killer satellites?

The tiny strip around the earth that harbours satellites is controversial. The Chinese are being accused of not co-operating with treating that strip of space as a 'civil space area'.

The problem I have with this is if indeed this strip is reserved for electronic communications serving the world, then what the hell are spy satellites doing there.

As much as I hate to say it the Chinese could be within their rights, to protect their national interest.

The Chinese ARE within their rights to protect themselves from the only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons .. twice .. and a nation that attacks small nations whenever it feels like it and mass-murders hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

The American military/industrial complex thinks that only they own space.

After all, that's what God wanted, right?

What are we (America) going to do about this?

Nothing.

China owns the US debt.

[Black Dog]

The Chinese ARE within their rights to protect themselves from the only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons .. twice .. and a nation that attacks small nations whenever it feels like it and mass-murders hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

You do know, of course, that when it comes to mass murders of innocents, few hold a candle to China. FYI: it is possible to be critical of the U.S. without supporting countries that are worse.

[bush_cheney2004]

The Chinese didn't seem to have any problem with Americans in their "space" when Japan was kicking their ass with "mass murder".

[GostHacked]

Are you going to suggest China is NOT bad?

Are you suggesting the Americans are nothing but Good? Try something a little meatier. It seems like no country is 'good' anymore. But there are a varying degrees of badness across the board. And the top 5 would be (im my personal view and in no particular order then) US, China,

Maybe I should move to Sweden or Switzerland. Nice neutral countries. I think they got it right.

[Black Dog]

Are you suggesting the Americans are nothing but Good? Try something a little meatier. It seems like no country is 'good' anymore. But there are a varying degrees of badness across the board. And the top 5 would be (im my personal view and in no particular order then) US, China,

The U.S. would make the top 5 in a list of "bad" countries soley if one was talking about western nations and even then, just barely. Fact is the vast majority of the world is, as Argus would say, a cesspool.

By all means, criticize American when it falls short of upholding its own stated ideals. But don't pretend it's anywhere near the worst place on earth. That's just indefensible.

[blackascoal]

The Chinese ARE within their rights to protect themselves from the only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons .. twice .. and a nation that attacks small nations whenever it feels like it and mass-murders hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

You do know, of course, that when it comes to mass murders of innocents, few hold a candle to China. FYI: it is possible to be critical of the U.S. without supporting countries that are worse.

The point wasn't just to be critical of either country but to demonstrate that no one holds the moral high ground in this argument, and that China has every right to protect itself.

[blackascoal]

Black Dog,

By all means, criticize American when it falls short of upholding its own stated ideals. But don't pretend it's anywhere near the worst place on earth. That's just indefensible.

Nor have I suggested that America is "the worst place on earth."

However, the argument is about the weaponization of space, and the duplicity of American policy in this issue is undeniable and just as hypocritical as American policy on nuclear weapons.

I do not believe that foreign policy based on American exceptionalism (do as I say not as I do) is in our best interests and it does not make us secure. We do not have the right nor possess the strength to dicate policy to all the world.

My comments are not meant to defend China, but rather to defend America from the thoughtless self-serving foreign policy that got us in the crisis we now face.