DogOnPorch Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 What are you dense? Are you simply afraid to answer because I know what your answer will be? Is that the reason? Be brave...I'll be aware that it is an opinion of speculation. I await your response to the question asked. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is a fact that under equal conditions, large-scale battles and whole wars are won by troops which have a strong will for victory, clear goals before them, high moral standards, and devotion to the banner under which they go into battle. ---Marshal Gerorgi Zhukov Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Higgly Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 (edited) Are you simply afraid to answer because I know what your answer will be? Is that the reason? Be brave...I'll be aware that it is an opinion of speculation.I await your response to the question asked. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is a fact that under equal conditions, large-scale battles and whole wars are won by troops which have a strong will for victory, clear goals before them, high moral standards, and devotion to the banner under which they go into battle. ---Marshal Gerorgi Zhukov I rest my case. But in the spirit of educating those who bring ignorance to the table, I remind you that before the 1948 war, Golda Meier went to Abdullah of Jordan and asked him not to attack Israel. He agreed. He in fact did not attack past the UN defined borders for the state of Israel. Israel, on the other hand, attacked and took Jordanian held territory. I am not going to debate hypotheitcals with you. End of story. Right now I am wondering why I would even debate history with you. Edited October 15, 2007 by Higgly Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
DogOnPorch Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 (edited) It's a shame you resort to insults to yet again evade the simple question of whether you'd give the Israelis the same attention you give the Arabs. Why is this? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations. ---Yasser Arafat al-Husayni (the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammad Amin al-Husayni 's nephew) Edited October 15, 2007 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 I rest my case. But in the spirit of educating those who bring ignorance to the table, I remind you that before the 1948 war, Golda Meier went to Abdullah of Jordan and asked him not to attack Israel. He agreed. If he agreed, he broke his word. from your quote. The day after the state of Israel was declared five Arab armies from Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq immediately invaded Israel but were repulsed Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Higgly Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 (edited) It's a shame you resort to insults to yet again evade the simple question of weather you'd give the Israelis the same attention you give the Arabs. Why is this?----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations. ---Yasser Arafat al-Husayni (the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammad Amin al-Husayni 's nephew) Oh so THAT'S the question. And here I thought it was something else. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Palesinian? There is no such thing as a Palestinian." Gold Meier. Edited October 15, 2007 by Higgly Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
moderateamericain Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Why is it OK for China to continue a brutal occupation they started in 1959, against harmless Tibetans, while Israel is pressured almost daily to return to highly dangerous 1967 borders?Maybe I'm dense. the largest standing army in the world, soon to be the strongest economy in the world, Nuclear weapons. Pretty fucking big deterrent to mess with the big kid on the East side of the block. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 15, 2007 Report Posted October 15, 2007 Oh so THAT'S the question. And here I thought it was something else. I've had a chance to catch up on some of your posts. My question seems quite rhetorical now. Carry-on. I DO NOT HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT EVENTS THAT DID NOT HAPPEN. Can I hold you to that? Meet Higgly, Marshall of Dodge City...... Understood. Dodge Weave and Evade City. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm thrown back by a boot, I have no strength left, In vain I beg the rabble of pogrom, To jeers of "Kill the Jews, and save our Russia!" My mother's being beaten by a clerk. ---Yevgeny Yevtushenko, Babi Yar Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
jbg Posted October 16, 2007 Author Report Posted October 16, 2007 the largest standing army in the world, soon to be the strongest economy in the world, Nuclear weapons. Pretty fucking big deterrent to mess with the big kid on the East side of the block.That wasn't always so. The Left's love affair with Maoism (remember Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Mao, Mao Tse Tung being screeched by demonstrators) prevented earlier action. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Black Dog Posted October 16, 2007 Report Posted October 16, 2007 That wasn't always so. The Left's love affair with Maoism (remember Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Mao, Mao Tse Tung being screeched by demonstrators) prevented earlier action. Do you have any proof that pro-Communist demonstrations were responsible for the lack action against China in 1959 when Tibet was occupied, or are you just blowing smoke? Keep in mind, of course, that at the time, the west had just come off a confrontation with China in Korea that ended in a stalemate (which should give you some context as to why the west didn’t act) and that the political climate of the time was hardly one where anyone with pro-Communist sympathies was likely to have any influence whatsoever. It never ceases to amaze and amuse me to see people accord the left a degree of influence completely at odds with reality and the common perception of the left as an ignorant, indolent rabble. Quote
Peter F Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 That wasn't always so. The Left's love affair with Maoism (remember Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Mao, Mao Tse Tung being screeched by demonstrators) prevented earlier action. ..yes, well lets all forget about McCarthur and the Korean war. Quote A bayonet is a tool with a worker at both ends
DogOnPorch Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 ...yes, well lets all forget about McCarthur (sic) and the Korean war. Hi Peter, MacArthur didn't start the war...but his counterattack at Inchon did save South Korea's hide. Sure he went off the deep end at the Yalu, but worse things could have happened...but didn't. The Red Chinese learned (perhaps) not to charge Canadian machinegun nests and we all learned to bring more bullets next time. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actions are the seed of fate deeds grow into destiny. ---President Harry S Truman Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
moderateamericain Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 That wasn't always so. The Left's love affair with Maoism (remember Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Mao, Mao Tse Tung being screeched by demonstrators) prevented earlier action. ] Yes but were addressing the issue today. Which is why you don't hear cries about tibet because the chinese will basically give you the proverbial finger and theres not a damn thing we can do about it. Short of mass suicide from the ensuing mushroom clouds. Quote
myata Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Only if you consider the brute force as the way to solve all problems. Which, as Iraq and other examples show, may not be a solution at all, after all. Are we out of any better options? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
Rue Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 I rest my case. But in the spirit of educating those who bring ignorance to the table, I remind you that before the 1948 war, Golda Meier went to Abdullah of Jordan and asked him not to attack Israel. He agreed. He in fact did not attack past the UN defined borders for the state of Israel. Israel, on the other hand, attacked and took Jordanian held territory.I am not going to debate hypotheitcals with you. End of story. Right now I am wondering why I would even debate history with you. The above is absolute nonsense and I would caution people to find out for themselves what happened prior to 1948. The above is one individual's personal views as to what he thinks happened not what necessarily happened. For one to debate history they should quote a neutral source, not try revise it with their personal subjective opinion as to what they think history should be and then challenge others who question them when they become revisionist. Quote
Canadian Blue Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Well? Had the Arabs won the 6 Day War...or say they win a future war that takes over Israeli territory...would you/will you be calling for the return of Jewish lands 'rightfully theirs'?? In my own opinion if somebody took away all of my families land, and we ended up living in a refugee camp I would be pretty pissed. Just out of curiosity, since this has become nothing but attempts to say its alright to kill Palestinians in 2007 due to events from the 1940's, should there be a Palestinian state? What I find incredible is that there is popular support in the West for what is essentially a movement that has direct ties to the Nazis and the Third Reich...including the Holocaust. But oddly THAT doesn't seem to bother those that have decided Israel and perhaps the Jews as a whole are the enemy. I can differentiate between todays Palestinians and the Nazis. I can also differentiate between todays Germans and the Nazis of the 1940's. However I oddly enough remain opposed to sending the majority of Germans to refugee camps and bombing the living shit out of them in 2007. Quote "Keep your government hands off my medicare!" - GOP activist
Rue Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 King Abdullah commanded the strongest/largest Arab army, the Arab Legion. The Arab Legion consisting of an estimated 10,000 and trained and commanded by British officers. There is documented evidence to indicate in the time period of 1946-1947, Abdullah was not at that time openly against a further partition of the remaining 20% of Palestine other than the 80% alreadly illegally annexed by the British and turned into the Kingdom of TransJordan. In 1946-1947, Abdullah of coruse supported partition because it was his opinion the areas allocated by the British in the remaining 20% of Palestine could then be annexed to Transjordan. So yes Abdullah had meetings with the Jewish Agency (and future Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was only one of manydelegates to these meetings, and yes they worked on a mutually agreed upon partition plan independent of the United Nations with the full incitement of the British. However it is a fact that by 1948, the neighboring Arab states, particularily, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, convinced Abdullah to form a coalition of Arab armies to prevent the partition of the remainder of Palestine. Abdullah was not some benevolent angel as Higgly time and time again tries to revise history to portray. He was in fact the supreme commander of the Arab League armies that would attack the Jews to prevent them from forming a nation. The Arab Legion the largest of the Arab Armies (Jordan's army) had 4 infantry/mechanised regiments , 40 artillery pieces and 75 armoured cars. In addition to its 10,000 or so forces, it also had another 3,000-in its Transjordanian Frontier Force. The Arab Legion joined the war in May 1948. It allowed the rest of the Arab League armies to mass on its border. Abdullah focused his troops on the two additional areas he wanted control over; the West Bank and East Jerusalem. In fact British General John Glubb headed the Jordanian Army and RAF pilots flew Egyptian Air Force jets. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Just out of curiosity, since this has become nothing but attempts to say its alright to kill Palestinians in 2007 due to events from the 1940's, should there be a Palestinian state? Nowhere did I say it is OK to kill Palestinians. No, there shouldn't be a Palestinian state because they chose war in 1948 and lost. You can't have things both ways...at least in my opinion. Too bad...but they lost. L-O-S-T. But given the chance, I feel it is a safe bet that they'd once again attempt to drive Israel into the sea. If only their soldiers weren't such cowards, perhaps they could actually get the job done. The certainly tried enough times. I can differentiate between todays Palestinians and the Nazis. I can also differentiate between todays Germans and the Nazis of the 1940's. However I oddly enough remain opposed to sending the majority of Germans to refugee camps and bombing the living shit out of them in 2007. The Arabs never paid for their war crimes. Germans...well those Germans not being hidden in South America and the Middle-East...did. The Grand Mufti died of old age. His nephew went on to commit acts of terrorism, then got a Nobel prize for doing so. To support the "Palestinian cause" is to support the very thing we as Canadians went to war to fight back in 1939. But if that's OK with you...no worries. We still live in a free country. Kiss their azzes...let me know how it tastes...lol. The Grand Mufti was a horrible man...the Arabs still love him as a hero. For that I can not forgive them. ...I would caution people to find out for themselves what happened prior to 1948. The above is one individual's personal views as to what he thinks happened not what necessarily happened. The irony of course is if one checks out one of these Anti-Zionist/Pro Palestinan rallies on the net you can often see the Star of David being replaced by a Swastika by those "clever" individuals who attempt to make the Jews into the Nazis. http://opinionated.blogsome.com/images/israelflag.GIF --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our law is a Jordanian law that we inherited, which applies to both the West Bank and Gaza, and sets the death penalty for those who sell land to Israelis. ---Yasser Arafat Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Higgly Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 (edited) The above is absolute nonsense and I would caution people to find out for themselves what happened prior to 1948. The above is one individual's personal views as to what he thinks happened not what necessarily happened.For one to debate history they should quote a neutral source, not try revise it with their personal subjective opinion as to what they think history should be and then challenge others who question them when they become revisionist. Read Avi Shlaim; The Iron Wall. Personal view, my ass. This is a researched work by a historian. You on the other hand... Edited October 17, 2007 by Higgly Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Higgly Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 It's a shame you resort to insults to yet again evade the simple question of whether you'd give the Israelis the same attention you give the Arabs. Why is this?----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations. ---Yasser Arafat al-Husayni (the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Mohammad Amin al-Husayni 's nephew) "There is no such thing as a Palestinian"; Gold Meir. Folks, DogOnPorch and I have disagreed on a number of points of historical fact and on each one, I was able to show DogOnPorch the error of his/her ways. The reason for this is that DogOnPorch relies on propaganda sound bites that depend on a shallow understanding of historical fact. Having been shown the door on a number of posts, DogOnPorch has resorted to fantasy island where the debate is about what would have happened if something or other had happened. "Boss! The Plane! The Plane!" Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Higgly Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 The Arabs never paid for their war crimes. No doubt this will happen right after Shamir is sent to prison for bombing the King David Hotel. Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Higgly Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 King Abdullah commanded the strongest/largest Arab army, the Arab Legion. The Arab Legion consisting of an estimated 10,000 and trained and commanded by British officers.There is documented evidence to indicate in the time period of 1946-1947, Abdullah was not at that time openly against a further partition of the remaining 20% of Palestine other than the 80% alreadly illegally annexed by the British and turned into the Kingdom of TransJordan. In 1946-1947, Abdullah of coruse supported partition because it was his opinion the areas allocated by the British in the remaining 20% of Palestine could then be annexed to Transjordan. So yes Abdullah had meetings with the Jewish Agency (and future Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir was only one of manydelegates to these meetings, and yes they worked on a mutually agreed upon partition plan independent of the United Nations with the full incitement of the British. However it is a fact that by 1948, the neighboring Arab states, particularily, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq, convinced Abdullah to form a coalition of Arab armies to prevent the partition of the remainder of Palestine. Abdullah was not some benevolent angel as Higgly time and time again tries to revise history to portray. He was in fact the supreme commander of the Arab League armies that would attack the Jews to prevent them from forming a nation. The Arab Legion the largest of the Arab Armies (Jordan's army) had 4 infantry/mechanised regiments , 40 artillery pieces and 75 armoured cars. In addition to its 10,000 or so forces, it also had another 3,000-in its Transjordanian Frontier Force. The Arab Legion joined the war in May 1948. It allowed the rest of the Arab League armies to mass on its border. Abdullah focused his troops on the two additional areas he wanted control over; the West Bank and East Jerusalem. In fact British General John Glubb headed the Jordanian Army and RAF pilots flew Egyptian Air Force jets. According to Shlaim (The Iron Wall), Golda Meir went to Jordan, met with Abdullah, and asked for mercy. Abdullah made the promise I indicated, and in fact, Abdullah's unwillingness to attack Israel made the Arab attack considerably weaker. You acknowledge the power of the Jordanian army and Shlaim says that it never crossed the Israeli line at any time, while the Irgun and Hagganah attacked beyond the Jordanian border and took land. Why is it, Rue, that I can cite a valid and reputable reference and you never seem to be able to cite bupkis? Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
Higgly Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 ... you can often see the Star of David being replaced by a Swastika by those "clever" individuals who attempt to make the Jews into the Nazis.http://opinionated.blogsome.com/images/israelflag.GIF Funny how some people can get away with posting links to racist web sites.... Quote "We have seen the enemy and he is us!". Pogo (Walt Kelly).
DogOnPorch Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Avi Shlaim? One of the 'New Historians'...read: Revisionists. He and the Norman Finkelstein's of the planet need a good long tour of Auschwitz. Even they would be ashes on the floor of the fire pit. No exceptions...even for those Jews who thought they were friends of the Nazis. Sonderkommandos of modern times. What is your opinion of the Grand Mufti and his nephew? Hamas? Hezbollah? Trapped in a World they never made? I spit on them all. Just in case you couldn't tell. --------------------------------------------------------------- Every indigenous people will resist alien settlers as long as they see any hope of ridding themselves of the danger of foreign settlement. This is how the Arabs will behave and go on behaving so long as they possess a gleam of hope that they can prevent ‘Palestine’ from becoming the land of Israel. ---The Iron Wall Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Funny how some people can get away with posting links to racist web sites.... Here's a classic example of it, now. Well done...and thanks for illustrating my point so well. ------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no longer a way out of our present situation except by forging a road toward our objective, violently and by force, over a sea of blood and under a horizon blazing with fire. ---Gamal Abdel Nasser...just before the 6 Day War. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
M.Dancer Posted October 17, 2007 Report Posted October 17, 2007 Funny how some people can get away with posting links to racist web sites.... Bah...muslims have free speech in the west.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
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