Should Wal-Mart Entry be banned.....?

[stignasty]

I don't shop at Wal-mart because I can't stand little ladies with blue hair running their shopping carts full of cat food into my ankles.

[betsy]

I think my big problem is that some people have the right to tell other people how they are going to shop.

This has been the rule of zoning since people started to live together.

Church went here, houses went there, hotel went there, etc.

Wal-Mart has wanted for a long time to be in the suburbs on a large swatch of land. Most cities and towns have accommodated that.

Some towns though have been less interested in a large box store on their doorstep and have had majority support from the electorate. It should be their choice.

Zoning is not banning. Consumers still have the choice and access to it.

I like going to walmart....because I enjoy browsing at products and comparing prices. My first stop is always their video game bin for good sales. There's one being built right now only a few blocks away ....and a lot of ladies I chat with are also excited about it as I.

[stignasty]

I like going to walmart....because I enjoy browsing at products and comparing prices. My first stop is always their video game bin for good sales. There's one being built right now only a few blocks away ....and a lot of ladies I chat with are also excited about it as I.

You don't have blue hair, do you?

[Michael Hardner]

Wal-Mart gets a big helping hand from government at all levels through tax breaks, infrastructure support, free land and subsidies.

There was an article in Harper's (The Atlantic ?) last summer that outlined how the Clintons shielded Wal*Mart from antitrust investigations in the 1990s, so you're very right there.

[jdobbin]

Zoning is not banning. Consumers still have the choice and access to it.

I like going to walmart....because I enjoy browsing at products and comparing prices. My first stop is always their video game bin for good sales. There's one being built right now only a few blocks away ....and a lot of ladies I chat with are also excited about it as I.

Zoning can very much be a banning. If you don't allow big box stores, you are banning them.

I think Surrey in B.C. just put a ban on superhouses. Some people say it is to keep Indo-Canadians out.

[Technocrat]

I don't shop at Wal-mart because I can't stand little ladies with blue hair running their shopping carts full of cat food into my ankles.

I think my big problem is that some people have the right to tell other people how they are going to shop.

This has been the rule of zoning since people started to live together.

Church went here, houses went there, hotel went there, etc.

Wal-Mart has wanted for a long time to be in the suburbs on a large swatch of land. Most cities and towns have accommodated that.

Some towns though have been less interested in a large box store on their doorstep and have had majority support from the electorate. It should be their choice.

Zoning is not banning. Consumers still have the choice and access to it.

I like going to walmart....because I enjoy browsing at products and comparing prices. My first stop is always their video game bin for good sales. There's one being built right now only a few blocks away ....and a lot of ladies I chat with are also excited about it as I.

I can't help but laugh when i saw those two posts next to eachother... sorry betsy

I will share something that really pissed me off today. I went back to my hometown of London Ontario to find that a Megawalmart has opened up on a peice of farmland in the middle of nowhere on the outskirts of town. All around it were other big box retailers ie futureshop, winners, EB, Payless...ect. Now all of the stores in this gigantic new retail development are spread so far apart that it is not practical to walk from store to store... basically you have to drive park, then drive to the next store and park again... no buses or public transportation even go near this area.

Why in the hell do we allow these retail centers to be built in such a rediculous way? Where in the hell are the city planners? I think our city planners have been coopted into thinking that suburban sprawl is great and cookie cutter communities are great too. Shouldn't we be fostering commuities by bringing commerce & and residential developments togeather? When I think of the great places to live in Toronto (yeah im using toronto but its for a reason) it is the areas that have a great mix of easily available shops, restaurants & boutiques. To name a few, The beaches, Bloor West Village, Rosedale(or is that Yorkdale i can never remember that one, Roncessvale, The Danforth. I would argue & if your a free market lover the houseing market backs me up that these are extremely desirable neighbourhoods to live in precicely for that very reason... they foster a sense of community, local schools, work and easy access to public transit. I can't imagine how it is really all that difficult of a formula to figure out.

The sad thing that i find when im travelling are driving for long distances through the GTA suburbs (which are huge) is that face that they are all the same... same houses, same roads, same stores... where in the hell has the creativity gone in our countries development?... where is the vision?... the imagination? The cities of the world that people want to visit are ones that are beautiful... when was the last time someone visited calgary for the architechture? (Sorry Calgary... don't mean to pick on you)...

I have lived in the suburbs and can attest it is a truly depressing place... which is one of the reasons why i will never live there again.

[allsorts]

I just plain don't like walmart. I don't like their business practices nor do i particularly like their cult-like corporate culture.

But i do think banning them is silly. Has anyone been to a Loblaws owned 'Real Canadian Superstore' lately? They are trying to become more like walmart.

the more retailers try to become one stop shopping paradises, the more boring and unoriginal their products become. I live in the downtown of Guelph Ontario, I have one stop shopping for pretty much everything within a block of my place... asian food store, a farmers market, 2 bakeries, a butcher shop & deli, produce vendor, funiture store, lord knows how many clothing stores, restaurants, coffee shops, basically i rarely have the need to go to a mall.

This is the thing that kills me... Canadians bitch about walmart... yet most of canadians move to the burbs away from the downtown cores. Talk about a formula to kill your local retailers... Canadians & Americans have no-one but themselves to blame for turning walmart into what it is today.

Personally I walk into a walmart and its like stepping into a foreign country... the offensive signage, the gawd awful lighting, the crappy products... its a painful experience.

Wal-mart is cheap, boutique stores are not as. Wal-mart is one stop shopping, boutique or small stores, not neccessarily and that equals to more time. So, it boils down to time & money.

My mother is poor, if she can shop at a Wal mart so she has more money in her wallet for prescriptions, food, and her heating bill then I support her shopping at Walmart.

I do not shop at Wal-mart because I would much rather support the little guys not to mention that it is a far better experience - the atmosphere, the characters you meet who actually will converse with you and feeling like you are a real part of the community, something I find we are really lacking these days - a whole other topic.

That said, Wal-mart, or any other chain, when it moves into a community should become part of the community by paying decent wages, supporting local charity, and setting examples.

[Technocrat]

I just plain don't like walmart. I don't like their business practices nor do i particularly like their cult-like corporate culture.

But i do think banning them is silly. Has anyone been to a Loblaws owned 'Real Canadian Superstore' lately? They are trying to become more like walmart.

the more retailers try to become one stop shopping paradises, the more boring and unoriginal their products become. I live in the downtown of Guelph Ontario, I have one stop shopping for pretty much everything within a block of my place... asian food store, a farmers market, 2 bakeries, a butcher shop & deli, produce vendor, funiture store, lord knows how many clothing stores, restaurants, coffee shops, basically i rarely have the need to go to a mall.

This is the thing that kills me... Canadians bitch about walmart... yet most of canadians move to the burbs away from the downtown cores. Talk about a formula to kill your local retailers... Canadians & Americans have no-one but themselves to blame for turning walmart into what it is today.

Personally I walk into a walmart and its like stepping into a foreign country... the offensive signage, the gawd awful lighting, the crappy products... its a painful experience.

Wal-mart is cheap, boutique stores are not as. Wal-mart is one stop shopping, boutique or small stores, not neccessarily and that equals to more time. So, it boils down to time & money.

My mother is poor, if she can shop at a Wal mart so she has more money in her wallet for prescriptions, food, and her heating bill then I support her shopping at Walmart.

I do not shop at Wal-mart because I would much rather support the little guys not to mention that it is a far better experience - the atmosphere, the characters you meet who actually will converse with you and feeling like you are a real part of the community, something I find we are really lacking these days - a whole other topic.

That said, Wal-mart, or any other chain, when it moves into a community should become part of the community by paying decent wages, supporting local charity, and setting examples.

I really contest that you save all that much money shopping at walmart. The prices may be cheap but so is the quality. I may pay 10% more for a product but the quality of it is not as shoddy as the walmart product of which you will pay for twice over the lifespan of the slighly more expensive product.

Is there really much of a difference in perscription medicines between walmart & other pharmacies? (i really don't know... i have purchased perscription medicine once in my whole life so i have no idea)

[guyser]

[

I really contest that you save all that much money shopping at walmart. The prices may be cheap but so is the quality. I may pay 10% more for a product but the quality of it is not as shoddy as the walmart product of which you will pay for twice over the lifespan of the slighly more expensive product.

Is there really much of a difference in perscription medicines between walmart & other pharmacies? (i really don't know... i have purchased perscription medicine once in my whole life so i have no idea)

One does save shopping at WM. But you are right in that the quality vs cost takes a hit. People shopping at WM are not looking at quality, and if they were they did not do the homework.

WM exists to bring low cost goods to the people. Moms and dads living paycheck to paycheck need to get what they want at the lowest possible price. Quality be damned.

As for the prescriptions that WM is offering, I do believe they announced a plan to undercut all the other pharma's on certain major popular drugs. This will be WM's loss leader. Most will not go to WM for x script, and then got to Wal Greens for y script.

If nothing else, WM knows that plenty of North American shoppers do not care about quality.

[betsy]

I like going to walmart....because I enjoy browsing at products and comparing prices. My first stop is always their video game bin for good sales. There's one being built right now only a few blocks away ....and a lot of ladies I chat with are also excited about it as I.

You don't have blue hair, do you?

Depends on what date. And if I'm having a bad hair day!

[betsy]

The sad thing that i find when im travelling are driving for long distances through the GTA suburbs (which are huge) is that face that they are all the same... same houses, same roads, same stores... where in the hell has the creativity gone in our countries development?... where is the vision?... the imagination? The cities of the world that people want to visit are ones that are beautiful... when was the last time someone visited calgary for the architechture? (Sorry Calgary... don't mean to pick on you)...

I also feel the same way. You go everywhere and you find the usual McDonald's, and you know a KFC and a Burger King or Dairy Queen can't be that far away. When societies are supposedly "diversified"...how come we are inundated with "cookie-cutters" kind of lifestyle? Everything is a formula. From the kind of big-budget movies being shown...to the eat-all-you-can-buffets....to practically all the menus in town.

Yes, items on most menu in family restaurants/bars seem identical! And a lot practically taste or look the same....depending on which major suppliers deliver the goods.

Then look at the rows of houses. They all look the same with the garage being way upfront, as the focal point....I mean....feels like you've never really left at all.

[Michael Hardner]

The solution is easy...

Don't shop at these places. I don't, and I don't feel that I'm missing anything. I remember when malls opened in Canada, they were more convenient, more pleasant, and not that much more expensive than shopping 'downtown'. Today, the original model is out the window.

To shop at Yorkdale Mall is to request a new and bizarre set of humiliations to happen to you.

Looking at the big picture, I find it much more pleasant to stay away from these places and I recommend the same for anyone who wants a peaceful and enjoyable life.

[Guest Amrita]

Hey friends....would you like to know more about public opinions on wal-mart...just participate in an Ongoing Debate subjected as "Wal-Mart hijacks the livelihood of small and medium retailers."

[betsy]

Hey friends....would you like to know more about public opinions on wal-mart...just participate in an Ongoing Debate subjected as "Wal-Mart hijacks the livelihood of small and medium retailers."

What doesn't these days?

Costco, Loblaws, Independent Grocers, Sears, Home Depot, Super Pet Stores....

Why singling out Walmart? That's what I don't understand.

Just like McDonald's is being singled out.

[JerrySeinfeld]

The sad thing that i find when im travelling are driving for long distances through the GTA suburbs (which are huge) is that face that they are all the same... same houses, same roads, same stores... where in the hell has the creativity gone in our countries development?... where is the vision?... the imagination? The cities of the world that people want to visit are ones that are beautiful... when was the last time someone visited calgary for the architechture? (Sorry Calgary... don't mean to pick on you)...

I also feel the same way. You go everywhere and you find the usual McDonald's, and you know a KFC and a Burger King or Dairy Queen can't be that far away. When societies are supposedly "diversified"...how come we are inundated with "cookie-cutters" kind of lifestyle? Everything is a formula. From the kind of big-budget movies being shown...to the eat-all-you-can-buffets....to practically all the menus in town.

Yes, items on most menu in family restaurants/bars seem identical! And a lot practically taste or look the same....depending on which major suppliers deliver the goods.

Then look at the rows of houses. They all look the same with the garage being way upfront, as the focal point....I mean....feels like you've never really left at all.

That's just simply not true. There are lots of options out there for housing, stores, restaurants, bars. Just because lots of people frequent the more popular spots (they would be so ubiquitous if they weren't popular, right?) doesn't mean there aren't other options.

Hey, where is the rule that says you have to listen to hip hop or Britney Spears? You can just as easily flip the dial to CKUA or NPR and hear some jazz or a nice symphony, right?

If you don't like big boz stores, maybe you shouldn't have had the 2.5 kids and moved to the boonies in the first place

[Guest Amrita]

Wal-Mart is not suited to our interests. It is only a consumerist quest of the very high income group people who advocate for FDI in retail and bring corporate giant like Wal-Mart in India in the name of competition. Wal-Mart with its trumendous money power will infact wipe out the competion or better say competitors.

[Charles Anthony]

would you like to know more about public opinions on wal-mart...

No, but thanks for advertizing your forum.

How about these cross-posts adverts:

Defending The Truth!!!

Conflicting Views

Hey friends! Maybe we should all go into that forum and repeat all of these threads over there too?

[moderateamericain]

I just plain don't like walmart. I don't like their business practices nor do i particularly like their cult-like corporate culture.

But i do think banning them is silly. Has anyone been to a Loblaws owned 'Real Canadian Superstore' lately? They are trying to become more like walmart.

the more retailers try to become one stop shopping paradises, the more boring and unoriginal their products become. I live in the downtown of Guelph Ontario, I have one stop shopping for pretty much everything within a block of my place... asian food store, a farmers market, 2 bakeries, a butcher shop & deli, produce vendor, funiture store, lord knows how many clothing stores, restaurants, coffee shops, basically i rarely have the need to go to a mall.

This is the thing that kills me... Canadians bitch about walmart... yet most of canadians move to the burbs away from the downtown cores. Talk about a formula to kill your local retailers... Canadians & Americans have no-one but themselves to blame for turning walmart into what it is today.

Personally I walk into a walmart and its like stepping into a foreign country... the offensive signage, the gawd awful lighting, the crappy products... its a painful experience.

THats the god awful truth right there, they exsist because we buy from there.

[August1991]

The point is that many people say "There is a market for it" for whatever that thing might be. It is said as a justification. I said there is a market for prostitution as well. The someone else said legal activities to which I countered that prostitution is legal.

I personally have no problems with Wal-Mart but it doesn't mean that any and/or all communities need to roll out the carpet for them in terms of land usage and zoning. Some communities might not want them just as some might not want prostitutes.

I think many people misunderstand what Wal-Mart is. Wal-Mart is the market. Wal-Mart merely provides a way for a seller to meet a buyer. Wal-Mart is like the NYSE, a shopping mall or a real estate agent. It provides the logistics of arranging a deal and slices off a commission.

In a world based on co-operation and market relations (and if we are to prosper, this is our only route), the world of 2506 will have examples like Wal-Mart but far more sophisticated and direct.

For retail FMCG, Wal-Mart's in an extremely tough business and I'd argue that Wal-Mart will not exist in 2056 let alone 2506. It will be overtaken by some new way to arrange deals - just like the NYSE has become a computer screen.

The idea that Wal-Mart got to where it is today because of its success in the free market is laughable on its face. Wal-Mart gets a big helping hand from government at all levels through tax breaks, infrastructure support, free land and subsidies. And of course, one can't forget how much of Wal-Mart's crap is made in China, where the market is anything but free.

I'm sure that Wal-Mart makes special deals at both ends of the transaction, some even include governments. So what? In the grand scheme of things, does it matter?

The knock of Wal-Mart on Indian retail doors has raised the ire of those who stand for vendors, hawkers and shopkeepers. India FDI Watch has stepped out to hold out a warning, citing global instances.

Welcome to market relations. If you don't like them, go sleep on a beach in Goa and even then.

I notice that people love to deal with one another. They love to talk on mobile phones and post messages on Internet forums. As a species, it is our nature to transact because we understand that co-operation leads to a gain for both sides. We invariably seek the easiest way to get in touch with others.

When people can interact with others, the world changes and becomes a better place.

----

Let me be more frank. I usually buy my morning coffee from a Chinese guy inside the YMCA in downtown Montreal. He sells it with a smile for $2.10. Across the street, a new building was finished and a Lebanese has a coffee shop on the ground floor. He's selling for $1.90, also with a smile.

The Chinese grumbled then dropped his price. So, tell me, what happened?

[Michael Hardner]

I'm sure that Wal-Mart makes special deals at both ends of the transaction, some even include governments. So what? In the grand scheme of things, does it matter?

Welcome to market relations. If you don't like them, go sleep on a beach in Goa and even then.

Auguste -

Yes, it does matter very much if they ARE the market, because they then define what is acceptable behavior and what is not.

And we do have other options, if we don't like market relations. We have the ability to regulate relations, if we think that those relations can have an adverse affect on people in general.

[Charles Anthony]

We have the ability to regulate relations, if we think that those relations can have an adverse affect on people in general.

What exactly needs to be regulated?

[Michael Hardner]

What needs to be regulated ? I'm not sure. Any practice that restricts freedom ?

I want to point out that I'm speaking generally, in response to this :

Welcome to market relations. If you don't like them, go sleep on a beach in Goa and even then.

[Charles Anthony]

Any practice that restricts freedom ?

Do you really want more freedom?

Anyway, the poor Wal-Mart workers stand out as the only ones who are unionized. Now they stand out as having NO Christmas bonus.

]

Pas de prime pour les employés du Wal-Mart de St-Hyacinthe

La raison: la direction invoque la syndicalisation, qui a entraîné des frais élevés pour la succursale.

Habitués à recevoir une prime liée au rendement de leur magasin, les employés du Wal-Mart de Saint-Hyacinthe affirment n'avoir rien reçu pour l'année 2005 car leur syndicalisation, se sont-ils fait dire par la direction, a entraîné des frais juridiques élevés pour la succursale.

La Presse

Maybe their union dues can be pooled together to pay for their bonus themselves. Bah humbug!

[Black Dog]

I'm sure that Wal-Mart makes special deals at both ends of the transaction, some even include governments. So what? In the grand scheme of things, does it matter?

Well, if one expands (as you do)the definition of market to include pretty much every interaction under the sun (including thsoe between the state and private interests) then nothing. But there's a clear distinction between your "market" and what is commonly caled "a free market". Wal-Mart's success is not a product of the free market as some have inisted. Saying otherwise is like pissing on your shoes and commenting on the nice spring rain.

Again: Wal-Mart is not successful because it acts as an intemrediary between buyer and seller or because they are the people's choice, or any other self-flattering bullshit from a B. Comm textbook. They are successful because they have lobbied governments to give them preferential treatment, tax breaks, etc. They exist because of the public, yet have no interest in the public good. That matters.

Tell me, August, what are the limits of the market in your world?

[Charles Anthony]

They exist because of the public, yet have no interest in the public good.

Nobody has an interest in the public good.

That matters.

To who??