Dion wins

[hiti]

Too funny. Please everyone keep on underestimating Dion.

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

[Remiel]

Are there any legal standards for interfering in the convention of a political party you do not belong to or support?

Seems morally bankrupt to me. So morally bankrupt, the Liberals should remember to bring it up in the next election, to illustrate how little Conservatives value Canadian democracy (not that they don't value it, but two can play that game).

[jdobbin]

Are there any legal standards for interfering in the convention of a political party you do not belong to or support?

Seems morally bankrupt to me. So morally bankrupt, the Liberals should remember to bring it up in the next election, to illustrate how little Conservatives value Canadian democracy (not that they don't value it, but two can play that game).

I think it is a line that has not been crossed before. I don't know that the public would care other than to tar all politicians and political parties with the same brush.

[Hydraboss]

Too funny. Please everyone keep on underestimating Dion.

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

Wow, you amaze me with your unequivicable knowledge of federal politics!

p.s. - I think you meant Finley and HER lackies.

[gc1765]

Just what we need another politician from the Chretien team. At least with Iggy he wasn't part of the caucus who dreamed up the sponsorship program that syphoned off money to hand off to the crooked advertising lobby in Quebec.

Dion was not one of the people siphoning off money for the sponsorship scandal either.

Iggy also isn't a Quebecer as Canada has had her fill of Quebec politicians who's only concern seems to be is insuring Quebec is happy, and never mind the rest of Canada. I am a Liberal provincially, but federally the Liberal Party no longer represents my view of Canada, nor do they represent the views of a great many other Canadians who would normally have vote Liberal.

I don't understand this criticism that Dion is from Quebec. Who cares? Does it really matter to you where someone is from? If you think his policies are somehow selling out to Quebec, I'd be interested in hearing those concerns and debating them. But a simple "he's from Quebec, that's bad" just doesn't make much sense to me.

[cybercoma]

Too funny. Please everyone keep on underestimating Dion.

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

Wow, you amaze me with your unequivicable knowledge of federal politics!

p.s. - I think you meant Finley and HER lackies.

hiti was using the masculine pronoun to create an inclusive environment.

[hiti]

Too funny. Please everyone keep on underestimating Dion.

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

Wow, you amaze me with your unequivicable knowledge of federal politics!

p.s. - I think you meant Finley and HER lackies.

Oh....... I didn't know that Doug Finley was a she. Learn something new everyday.

[Hydraboss]

Doesn't have to make sense, as far as the West is concerned. If he's from Kwebek, he's french and he's liberal. This does not play out here.

[Hydraboss]

Too funny. Please everyone keep on underestimating Dion.

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

Wow, you amaze me with your unequivicable knowledge of federal politics!

p.s. - I think you meant Finley and HER lackies.

Oh....... I didn't know that Doug Finley was a she. Learn something new everyday.

Thought you meant Martha Hall. My apologies.

(picture me looking sheepish with at least one foot in my mouth)

[Rue]

Dion is a liability in Quebec. He is seen by Quebecers as a Trudea federalist. This means he is strong with English and minority Quebecers but despised by the typical French Quebecer. I think Harper can get some of what we call the Union Nationale vote-basically the soft federalists that voted for Mulroney and who really aren't federalist just power mongers. But its interesting. Quebec hates BOTH Harper and Dion equally.

Here is what I would say and you guys forget. As much as Quebecers may hate Dion he still is one of them and just like so many hated Chretien and Trudea they voted for them for the same reason. Push comes to shove they will vote Block Quebecois anyways. I mean think about it. They can vote Block Quebecois knowing they are safe in Canada but can continue to pitch and complain.

Here is why I like the results. I promise you this. Dion will get his English down pat. Dion is a very sharp man. A razor wit and very skilled at debating. Of all the people I want debating Harper its him. He has the same temperment. I really think Harper would have massacered Rae's NDP baggage and Iggy's academic flip floppy arrogance and absence from the country. Dion is not stupid. He positioned himself so Chretien's dirt was nowhere near him. He has the green card to play with the environment and English Canada knows he is a strong federalist and interestingly voters turned off by Harper's nation within a nation gambit will go to him. I really think his ability to speak in English is not that bad. Sorry I have seen him ad lib and his grammar or verb tenses are far better then Chretien's. Don't let his accent fool you.

I did watch him in some scrums today and he ad libbed in English quite well.

O.k. here was another nauseating thing. Listenin to Olivia Chow say the Liberals are too concerned with winning. Ahahahah. What a chump. Brilliant Olivia. Now go back to Spadina Avenue and ride your bike into traffic.

[hiti]

Too funny. Please everyone keep on underestimating Dion.

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

Wow, you amaze me with your unequivicable knowledge of federal politics!

p.s. - I think you meant Finley and HER lackies.

Oh....... I didn't know that Doug Finley was a she. Learn something new everyday.

Thought you meant Martha Hall. My apologies.

(picture me looking sheepish with at least one foot in my mouth)

Understandable. And it's Martha Hall-Finlay and Doug Finley.

[BHS]

Dion is a liability in Quebec. He is seen by Quebecers as a Trudea federalist. This means he is strong with English and minority Quebecers but despised by the typical French Quebecer. I think Harper can get some of what we call the Union Nationale vote-basically the soft federalists that voted for Mulroney and who really aren't federalist just power mongers. But its interesting. Quebec hates BOTH Harper and Dion equally.

Here is what I would say and you guys forget. As much as Quebecers may hate Dion he still is one of them and just like so many hated Chretien and Trudea they voted for them for the same reason...

Well said, Rue. On all points. I was going to jump in but you've said everything I was thinking.

[August1991]

And plueeeeze... as though Liberal voters would be led around by the likes of Finley and his lackies. Bob Rae hasn't had a chance of winning for the past two months or more. Liberals just let the Tories believe that they were going to vote Rae. Politics is such a fun sport.

There were alot of delegates in that convention hall who voted for Rae. Are you suggesting that the Liberal Party laughs at its own militants?

[August1991]

...Quebec seems to be the only province not blithely willing to ignore the sponsorship scandal, and Dion, as Chretien's Quebec lieutenant, was in it up to his ears. Oh, sure, there's no hard evidence of it, but if most people suspected Martin must have known - and they did - there is even more certainty that Chretien loyalist Dion knew. Which will matter more to Quebecers, that he's French, or that he's in league with the Chretien backroom boys they are so angry at?

Another "dis, dat an da uder ting" French Quebecer will NOT go over well in the West and in much of Ontario.

It looks like the Liberal party hard core got scared at the prospect of serious change and rallied around "more of the same". But more of the same is not what many were looking for from the Liberals.

Dion is going to have a harder time making the Liberals' case on the Tories' greenhouse gas policies. He, more than any other Liberal candidate is going to have a hard time answering as to why the Liberals let emissions rise by 30% instead of seeing them cut. So what exactly did you accomplish as Environment Minister again, Mr. Dion?

I wonder too whether the sponsorship scandal will become an issue with Dion. It is certain that the Bloc will use this very forcefully against Dion.

I suspect too that English Canada is probably well beyond tired with Prime Ministers from Quebec.

The Liberals seem to think though that as long as their leader is a Liberal, and as long as they don't get into silly civil wars, their status as natural governing party will guarantee power.

Kennedy will defer to Dion on issues of Quebec status.

I was surprised that Dion has chosen to put so much emphasis on the environment. He seems to think that it will be the decisive issue of the new century. My own feeling is that Dion only recently came to this issue, he hasn't performed well with it and it's not really an issue for a political science professor. His approach seems to be top-down, command-and-control, regulatory solutions. These are rather French in style, and I don't think they'll work.

BTW, Dion's father was a well-known political science professor and commentator on political issues in Quebec. Dion followed in his father's footsteps and even taught in the same department of the same university. Dion is from Quebec City.

Dion's riding in Montreal holds (I believe) the largest concentration of Arabic-speakers. It is safe federalist territory. I wonder though how this will affect his positions on the Middle East.

[Hydraboss]

Everyone must play on their strengths. For anyone who has followed him closely, what are Dion's strengths? What sets him apart from other Liberals, and could conceivably give him an edge? I'm curious.

[Leafless]

Well said, Rue. On all points. I was going to jump in but you've said everything I was thinking.

Except for one thing.

Outside of Quebec, NO one wants another PM from Quebec.

Liberals are going to pay big time for linguistically ignoring the ROC with yet another French Liberal leader.

[August1991]

Here is what I would say and you guys forget. As much as Quebecers may hate Dion he still is one of them and just like so many hated Chretien and Trudea they voted for them for the same reason. Push comes to shove they will vote Block Quebecois anyways. I mean think about it. They can vote Block Quebecois knowing they are safe in Canada but can continue to pitch and complain.

Here is why I like the results. I promise you this. Dion will get his English down pat. Dion is a very sharp man. A razor wit and very skilled at debating. Of all the people I want debating Harper its him. He has the same temperment. I really think Harper would have massacered Rae's NDP baggage and Iggy's academic flip floppy arrogance and absence from the country. Dion is not stupid. He positioned himself so Chretien's dirt was nowhere near him. He has the green card to play with the environment and English Canada knows he is a strong federalist and interestingly voters turned off by Harper's nation within a nation gambit will go to him.

This is what the Liberal Party is betting on. The question: is will it work?

The Liberals suffer from Trudeau-envy and somehow it seems that that they are trying to deal with a 21st world using a 1960s solution. The BQ is not going to disappear.

And Dion's English isn't going to improve and while his French is elegant, his stiffness was the source of endless jokes. The next federal election in Quebec will be interesting. Some Montreal seats that went BQ may go back to the Liberals.

Does English Canada really want to have another male francophone Prime Minister from Quebec? I mean, shouldn't they start to use quotas, positive discrimination or something?

[Charles Anthony]

Does English Canada really want to have another male francophone Prime Minister from Quebec?

Yes. Why not?

I mean, shouldn't they start to use quotas, positive discrimination or something?

Of course not.

Between the Tories and the Liberals -- leaders notwithstanding, which party is most credible in promising a free lunch?

Answer: the Liberals.

Therefore, the rest-of-Canadians will forget about the past and re-elect the Liberals.

Canadians have no other purpose for the federal government other than to redistribute the country's wealth -- and yes, the majority of Canadians are that selfish.

[Argus]

He positioned himself so Chretien's dirt was nowhere near him.

He was a top Chretien loyalist. I have zero doubt he knew everything about the sponsorship system, and I think most people will believe the same.

He has the green card to play with the environment

As the environmen minister who smiled benignly while our greenhouse emissions went up and up and up and did absolutely nothing about it? Yup, great green card. Typical Liberal glitz without substance.

[myata]

Dion needs to get up to speed in the West but with his strong environmental agenda (unlike Cons 2020+) and Harper's insistence (which almost looks like an obsession) on bringing in moral issues like SSM, he has a good shot at kicking Cons a..s come the election. He has to work hard to get there, but he's just shown it (working hard) is something he can do. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the campaign.

[jdobbin]

He was a top Chretien loyalist. I have zero doubt he knew everything about the sponsorship system, and I think most people will believe the same.

As the environmen minister who smiled benignly while our greenhouse emissions went up and up and up and did absolutely nothing about it? Yup, great green card. Typical Liberal glitz without substance.

Many people think all politicians are corrupt. I can still harken back to people saying they would never vote for the Conservative party again, especially if Mulroney was somehow involved. Well, guess what? The Conservatives had support last election, Mulroney was involved and they won.

[Argus]

Does English Canada really want to have another male francophone Prime Minister from Quebec?

Yes. Why not?

You know, if there had not been a Quebec PM in forty years Quebecers would have seperated by now. If their own premier had been an Anglophone for virtually the entire last forty years due to Anglo voting habits they'd have burned Quebec city to the ground. Francophones vote for Francophones and that's all there is to it. Nobody even bothers to criticise it.

But a lot of Liberal Anglos seem to espouse a doe-eyed befuddled that there could be the slightest resentment in English Canada that a province with less than a quarter the population provides all our leaders, and that, of course, those leaders' primary concern is always pleasing Quebec. Our DG is a Quebecer, most of the top levels of our civil service will soon be Quebecers, and they want another Quebec PM. And then they get all indignant if anyone suggest that maybe English Canada might feel some resentment towards all this.

Between the Tories and the Liberals -- leaders notwithstanding, which party is most credible in promising a free lunch?

Answer: the Liberals.

Therefore, the rest-of-Canadians will forget about the past and re-elect the Liberals.

Canadians have no other purpose for the federal government other than to redistribute the country's wealth -- and yes, the majority of Canadians are that selfish.

This part, of course, does make sense, but primarily from a southern Ontario and Maritime perspective. Westerners (Vancouverites excepted), and Ontarions outside the major cities tend to be a more resilient, self-sufficient lot who are suspicious of all the incompetent, overexpensive government meddling which robs them of so much of their money.

[Canuck E Stan]

Dion needs to get up to speed in the West but with his strong environmental agenda (unlike Cons 2020+) and Harper's insistence (which almost looks like an obsession) on bringing in moral issues like SSM, he has a good shot at kicking Cons a..s come the election. He has to work hard to get there, but he's just shown it (working hard) is something he can do. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the campaign.

Great opportunity for both the new Liberal leader,

"Stephen" Dion(when he goes out west)

and for the Conservative leader,

"Stephane" Harper (when he heads into Quebec.)

[Leafless]

Canadians have no other purpose for the federal government other than to redistribute the country's wealth -- and yes, the majority of Canadians are that selfish.

What wealth are you really talking about?

Low wage earners AKA, the working poor, welfare recipients, pensioners etc. who end up financing the bulk of social programs since there are many more of them than wealthy Canadians. The rich get richer.

In other words you don't want a government running this country, you want a national social agency, AKA COMMUNISM, with of course the rich excluded.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Does Dion support this carbon tax craziness?