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Dion will not gain any votes in Quebec and by most judges on the panels today, he will lose Quebec voters and seats there. His english is not great and this will be a hard sell in Toronto and the rest of Ont. As far as support west of the Ontario boder goes, it will not be Dion that will get that but maybe the personal area MP's.

Dion will be good for the Environmentalists, but that will not get him votes on that alone. The fact that he was very much involved deeply with Chretien Liberals, will be a hard sell to what little support the Liberals have in Quebec. His drafting of the Clarity Act will not play well there either, as we know the french do punish those that they do not like.

I do not see him as being the one to bind the party and bring it into focus. He will have to fight with many of the party's MP's to get them on side. Whether that will later translate into willing co-operation or not remains to be seen.

I believe that the CPC has had a strategy for this event and I just do not see them afraid of him. Even the liberals own polls did not have Dion as being able to defeat Harper, and that should be looked at again with a closer eye.

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I believe that the CPC has had a strategy for this event and I just do not see them afraid of him. Even the liberals own polls did not have Dion as being able to defeat Harper, and that should be looked at again with a closer eye.

I've heard the Conservatives had a strategy for a majority with any of the candidates. I'll probably believe it more if they actually budged from where they are in the polls.

I'm prepared to hear complaints of media bias being responsible for the Conservatives present predicament any time now.

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I think that by choosing Dion as their leader, the Liberals are giving the next election to Harper. All he has to do is make feel-good announcements and get the gay marriage fake-vote out of the way before Christmas, and then he is home free to a majority with help from Ontario. I actually felt really bad for Ignatieff -- it was nearly 15 minutes straight of his face beside Dion's on TV, and he knew he lost and was holding back tears. I think Kennedy has assured himself a position of importance in Dion's circle of people, but the question I have now is what will Ignatieff do -- he had good policy but it just seemed he wasn't part of the establishment.

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Dion is seriously flawed like you described. He's incoherently not English, a big problem in the nation of Canada, and he's seen as the man behind Clarity, a big problem in the new nation of Quebec.

What exactly did the Liberals attempt to do by electing Dion? Show that their values are in fact not the values of anyone in Canada other than the 4000-some delegates in Montreal?

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Well, at least its not Iggy but, I'm not sure how Dion will carry the Liberal voters in the rest of Canada. I think maybe parties should at least, ponder, on what polls say before they vote themselves. After all, they can vote for who THEY think can win against the Cons, but its really up to the rest of the voters in the country to decide! I will be watching "question periods" and see how he can handle Harper. I think if some Liberals are disappointed in the leadership, they will move to the NDP or the Green party.

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I think that by choosing Dion as their leader, the Liberals are giving the next election to Harper. All he has to do is make feel-good announcements and get the gay marriage fake-vote out of the way before Christmas, and then he is home free to a majority with help from Ontario. I actually felt really bad for Ignatieff -- it was nearly 15 minutes straight of his face beside Dion's on TV, and he knew he lost and was holding back tears. I think Kennedy has assured himself a position of importance in Dion's circle of people, but the question I have now is what will Ignatieff do -- he had good policy but it just seemed he wasn't part of the establishment.

He was the established candidate. What he didn't do is run a smooth campaign.

As far a Tories winning the next election, I can believe that. But a majority, I can't. Where will they make the gains? What polls show them gaining momentum?

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I disagree with the criticism of Dion's English. Each time I've heard him speak this weekend I've thought that he expresses himself well. I don't see it as being a hindrance to his ability to lead the party.

He can't deal with questions, it's one thing to read from a script. I sound better than some of those candidates in French when I'm reading from a script. Ask me a question in French and I'm going to struggle. You can EASILY see Dion struggles when answering English questions, far more so than Chretien ever did.

There was a telling moment when Kennedy came to Dion. Kennedy was answering a question in French, then English. Then another reporter asked Dion a question in English and he responded with a repeated "en francais".

He can't speak English at an acceptable level for a national politican.

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Dion is seriously flawed like you described. He's incoherently not English, a big problem in the nation of Canada, and he's seen as the man behind Clarity, a big problem in the new nation of Quebec.

What exactly did the Liberals attempt to do by electing Dion? Show that their values are in fact not the values of anyone in Canada other than the 4000-some delegates in Montreal?

The problem with Bob Rae is that he was NDP in Ontario. He would, without a question, lose seats to the Conservatives in Ontario. I'm being anecdotal, but my father is a die-hard Liberal voter and said he would never vote again should Bob Rae win. It's that mentality amongst the aging population, who were forced to take Rae Days, that would do damage to the Liberals in Ontario: the kind of damage that woud benefit the Conservatives.

The problem with Michael Ignatieff is that he was too vulnerable to run for Prime Minister. Although wickedly intelligent, the man spent years in United States and that would certainly play against him. His stance on the war in Iraq would leave an opportunity for the Conservatives to say something along the lines of, "we didn't even support the war!" I also believe people who've been in the Liberal Party for many years may have turned their noses up at him for being a 'newb', something that also probably played against Rae.

Dion is the logical choice, in my opinion; however, he certainly doesn't assist the Liberals in any way shape or form. I guess I'm painting a lose-lose situation, but I think that's exactly what this leadership race was.

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I disagree with the criticism of Dion's English. Each time I've heard him speak this weekend I've thought that he expresses himself well. I don't see it as being a hindrance to his ability to lead the party.

At least Dion's english is better than the male translator on CBC. I can't understand a word the translator is saying, all he does is mumble.

He speaks well enough English; however, the fact that he's a francophone doesn't play well for those Canadians who are sick of concessions going to Québec.

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There was a telling moment when Kennedy came to Dion. Kennedy was answering a question in French, then English. Then another reporter asked Dion a question in English and he responded with a repeated "en francais".

He can't speak English at an acceptable level for a national politican.

I didn't see this exchange; I'll watch for his responses to off the cuff questions in English.

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As far a Tories winning the next election, I can believe that. But a majority, I can't. Where will they make the gains? What polls show them gaining momentum?

The CPC will make gains in Ontario. What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that Toronto and it's suburbs are somewhat "corporate" in feel. For once, Harper is the man who is most similar to them now, as opposed to Dion. You may think to bring up Chretien and his victories in this, but the only reason he won was because there were really no other alternatives. If Harper plays his cards right, he will be able to break into the Mississauga area (and other suburbs) and maybe even into some seats in Toronto itself. All he has to do is get the marriage vote out of the way ASAP, declare it over, then move onto tax cuts and feel-good news. Now that I think about it, this may have been his plan all along -- do the marriage vote before Christmas, wait until the Budget, get defeated on it, and be "nice" between the two.

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Just wanted to point out something a friend of mine from Montreal on another forum posted:

Mark my words Dion will get obliterated. Especially in Quebec. He has no kind of credibility and has been ridiculed for years as a public figure here. He has treated media with contempt and disgust....he's gonna get NOTHING outside of Western Montreal

Is this true?

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It looks like Harper will smile at this but I am not sure just how this will play out, it almost seems that teh liberals do not want to win the next election

There are number of things which can be said here. One, the only time the Tories do well in Quebec is when the Liberals have an English leader. On the other hand, Quebec seems to be the only province not blithely willing to ignore the sponsorship scandal, and Dion, as Chretien's Quebec lieutenant, was in it up to his ears. Oh, sure, there's no hard evidence of it, but if most people suspected Martin must have known - and they did - there is even more certainty that Chretien loyalist Dion knew. Which will matter more to Quebecers, that he's French, or that he's in league with the Chretien backroom boys they are so angry at?

Another "dis, dat an da uder ting" French Quebecer will NOT go over well in the West and in much of Ontario.

It looks like the Liberal party hard core got scared at the prospect of serious change and rallied around "more of the same". But more of the same is not what many were looking for from the Liberals.

Dion is going to have a harder time making the Liberals' case on the Tories' greenhouse gas policies. He, more than any other Liberal candidate is going to have a hard time answering as to why the Liberals let emissions rise by 30% instead of seeing them cut. So what exactly did you accomplish as Environment Minister again, Mr. Dion?

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Whether the Liberals win the next election or not, Dion (aside from Kennedy) is the best hope of all the potential leaders to win the next election.

It will be interesting to see some polls come out soon now that the liberals have a leader.

Just what we need another politician from the Chretien team. At least with Iggy he wasn't part of the caucus who dreamed up the sponsorship program that syphoned off money to hand off to the crooked advertising lobby in Quebec. Iggy also isn't a Quebecer as Canada has had her fill of Quebec politicians who's only concern seems to be is insuring Quebec is happy, and never mind the rest of Canada. I am a Liberal provincially, but federally the Liberal Party no longer represents my view of Canada, nor do they represent the views of a great many other Canadians who would normally have vote Liberal.

Somewhere, somehow the Liberal Party forgot about the morals and values held by Canadians to the point that they are no longer are in sync with ordinary Canadians. Our justice system is a laughing stock where criminals have more rights than their victims, and you can probably get more time in jail for poaching a slamon or hunting out-of-season than you will for getting behind the wheel drunk and killing an entire family, or shooting another human being.

It has become a system where bleeding-heart Liberals are appointed to the bench to anaccountably make decisions that change our society for the worst. I read somewhere that Canada has become a nation where to have Canadian morals and values really means having no morals or values at all. I'm sure that is not what our founding fathers had in mind when Canada was formed.

Vote Liberal, not in this lifetime!

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The CPC will make gains in Ontario. What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that Toronto and it's suburbs are somewhat "corporate" in feel. For once, Harper is the man who is most similar to them now, as opposed to Dion. You may think to bring up Chretien and his victories in this, but the only reason he won was because there were really no other alternatives. If Harper plays his cards right, he will be able to break into the Mississauga area (and other suburbs) and maybe even into some seats in Toronto itself. All he has to do is get the marriage vote out of the way ASAP, declare it over, then move onto tax cuts and feel-good news. Now that I think about it, this may have been his plan all along -- do the marriage vote before Christmas, wait until the Budget, get defeated on it, and be "nice" between the two.

So far I have seen no poll to think that Conservatives have made broad gains in Toronto.

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Many quebecker will smile at this news, Stephan Dion is not relly well loved in quebec, through the year he earned the reputation of being ottawa's puppet.

He have 0 charisma and charm like harper, he his an intellectual, he his very very intellectual, he knows how to debate on paper but he doesn't have what it takes to talk to ordinary people.

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Many quebecker will smile at this news, Stephan Dion is not relly well loved in quebec, through the year he earned the reputation of being ottawa's puppet.

He have 0 charisma and charm like harper, he his an intellectual, he his very very intellectual, he knows how to debate on paper but he doesn't have what it takes to talk to ordinary people.

Bourassa was not well loved in Quebec. Couldn't even win his seat. He was a hotdog eater and yet he got Liberal governments elected.

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Some Conservatives are taking credit for Rae being knocked off.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/lib_leader_conservatives

I think this may set the stage for political parties to disrupt each other's convention.

Perhaps when the Tories have their next convention, NDP and Liberals will hand out buttons and shirts that are insulting to other candidates and to the country in general. Oh what fun.

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