Jesus Camp

[DarkAngel_]

Mind you, I wasn't talking about those slap-on-the-forehead kind of faith-healing. I'm thinking along the lines of holistic healing...which are being used now, although I don't know how well they do.

oh i know! i saw a documentery on this, the hole: "i will take the sickness of the devil out a ya!" thing.

or are you talking about the "all faith" church at the hospital, or the death morning by rejoice.

I'm talking about this. And if I'm not mistaken, our healthcare cover this now, or there was a petition to have it recognized and covered.

"A. Holistic Healing is a term that can be easily interchangeable with many other names commonly used in the healing community such as:

• Alternative Medicine

• Complementary Medicine

• Holistic Health

• Integrative Medicine

Holistic or "wholistic" Healing approaches all parts of the individual, not just the physical aspect of a person where manifested illnesses are often most apparent. Although it may very well be the physical component of a person that people more easily recognize when problems arise through its discomfort or PAIN signals; the mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of ourselves also indicate imbalances and dis-ease . No aspect (mind, body, spirit, or emotions) of a person is overlooked when an holistic treatment is sought.

Types of Holistic Healing Therapies and Treatments

Aromatherapy, Ayurveda medicine, natural diet, exercise, counseling, herbal remedies, homeopathy, acupuncture, naturopathic medicine, bodywork, energy-based therapies, prayerful intention, and traditional Chinese medicine. Explore the Holistic Therapies Index to learn about these therapies and others."

http://healing.about.com/od/faq/f/holistic.htm

In your previous posts, you have advocated strongly to question...not to be "mindless." Cybercoma had talked of his truth, his belief being in the scientific field...and his contempt for religious beliefs. All I did was address both your points together.

I guess if some people can accept psychology, including some psycho-babbles that come along with it, why would their mind be closed to something like faith?

Dark Angel, you urge us to question. Well, I'm sort of questioning....or contemplating...that there could be something more that Christ was telling us.

If He came as a man, then why would He be giving demonstrations of god-like feats such as walking on water, or healing the sick?

I never did know much of holistic healing, but in that link...there is also a therapy that's called "radical forgiveness." Forgiveness is one of the big message of Christ. Forgiving us as we forgive others.

When He said, "I am the Way." Maybe it means MORE THAN JUST the way to gain the entry to heaven.

Anyway, what about your chiropractor? Or those massage therapist? Can they not be called your modern-day "healers?" Look ma, no instruments! Just my bare hands!

Science and faith seem to be merging. There is nothing conclusive...we cannot just dismiss religious faith as balderash! We'll have to fully understands our own selves, our inner selves, our minds....what the human's FULL potential can be.

i saw about a year back a disterbing event, in the hospital a preist trying to convert a islam family.

so the hole holy healing thing is very bright, but it divides us...

What's so disturbing about that? At least the attempt at conversion was happening in a hospital...not in the middle of a football field. Aren't you, yourself, attempting to "convert" us?

I wouldn't call that a "division." In fact...the priest was attempting at unification.

well ya know, i don't believe i wish to convert you, i wish to show you something along with what you believe, i don't think i ever showed you did i? well to the point of Jesus camp, that is all their being shown...

also we've not proven Jesus walked on water, or any of those events furthermore. also the bible was not righten by a historian (we actually don't know), so the proverbs in the bible are inconclusive in relation to fact! also i do believe that as the rock hard god loving communities takes hold of the center base of politics, it will divide us into a religous coo! and it seems some people are rounding up the troops, if you get my

meaning.

ok did anyone read the R.J. Hollingdale translation of 'Thus spoke Zarathustra?'

if you go into the woods and wait for danger, once it comes tell me how it feels.

ha ha.....just joking, but you'll feel the animal, that is the pull to the past.

this book tells of mental evolution, the jump or the crossing over the bridge between man and 'superman' or something greater then man.

Some call this book a cry of nihilism, but that’s untrue, and a misinterpretation of the book, all he is saying is that the points of moral values are becoming too common in situational mannerisms, and that our emotional extreme’s can be satisfied with a individual understanding of your own humanity. That as a thought of a god exists is a far cry from truth, that in fact the projection of a human need is being filled with a god. He speaks of a human need for freedom, which is mistaken for anti-state or anarchism, but in fact is an organization of understanding and boundaries that, as a person, you can bend and build at will, that it is our will that made this all possible and that would make us more then we are.

Also it’s not my bible I don’t speak behind it, I don’t speak ahead of it, it speaks beside me, so I guess I agree with the book, but there is more to it then you can read, haven’t you felt emotions without a name? emotions that are strong and deep and unexplained? Well in a part of self delusion is an understanding of yourself (been there, done that.) but past the delusion outside of you is the inner delusion, that thing you call a mind or self image of your perceptions.

Past that is a focus on reality, and past that… science! Which for me is the finding of truth similar to the minds that you all quote, they used science, not as a term! Or as the name! but the act!!!

[DarkAngel_]

Well, depends on which nothing you mean.

Empty three-dimensional space is still something, even if there is normal nothing occupying it. Real nothing would have to be normal nothing without any dimensions or defining factors. Or something like that.

which would mean it does not exist, there for cannot exist.

[gnam]

"it is not that i am truthful, but that i prefer truth" this is the priest that claims vision.

"every event is proceeded by prophecy, but without the hero, their is no event..." this is for the individual, who as fluidity fills the cup of destiny, "a destiny fulfilled is 1 less empty cup." And this is the will to destiny, not to me but all that search for things greater then themselves!

"truth is true, not to be as reality painted dry, the only way to truth is to see it for yourself!"

that is what the father of a god teaches him, and is reason for belief.

their is no hero for this passing, no destiny to fill, no gloom to overcome or unknown truth we must uncover, we choose too. that which is here is what is seen in our realm and is our only stand, our only perception. "we stand in awe before that which is not seen." that's what is greater then us.

at last this is the human mind, the phantom... in all reality 1 rule applies, we cannot trust ourselves, so why then call yourself the seer and knower? "to ME" is your claim, "to US" you all say together, but you have no proof, you see that is the divination of faith, to believe without proof, that is not always truth.

But judgment.

all that could have been. the world, about to speak, although... what to say?

we hesitate...

we crave an ending, there is more glory in an end then the pride of a life, even once a life fails.

years back i had a mental break down, i was hopeless, where as with faith you receive hope.

my reason for wanting death was diffrent... but the feeling is the same.

Sounds like a lot of nietzschean eternal return... a lot of willing and choosing. While there is no debating Nietzsche's mastery of modernity, nor his stylistic genius... consider taking into account some of the heideggarian thought concerning the ancients and moderns. Where does the concept of finitude fit into your 'will'?

[DarkAngel_]

Sounds like a lot of nietzschean eternal return... a lot of willing and choosing. While there is no debating Nietzsche's mastery of modernity, nor his stylistic genius... consider taking into account some of the heideggarian thought concerning the ancients and moderns. Where does the concept of finitude fit into your 'will'?

i would guess, that the intent of any one people, are from a complex of interactions to the future, as in that the initiative to do, from will, comes from a collective agreement from emotional responses sent by commonality, but that would mean a collective cultural complex is present, but the culture is divided by birthing alone, and is becoming more questionable. so i believe from then to now, finite existences is truth, but the step to the end or means to the end would require a strong will to that end, or as it might have been if mankind can break past limitation, past an end and to rebirth, not as nihilism, but as gradual recreation of these complexes into individual minds, i'd like to call that an 'over mind,' or 'common tongue.' That would be a collective of individual complexes, as one person of many.

i know a little of his philosiphy and might agree, but

in truth i never read any of his books, suggestion?

[cybercoma]

Is this the thread everyone has been talking about recently?

[betsy]

Is this the thread everyone has been talking about recently?

Yup. Ressurected.

I must say, it was enjoyable. Sure there were some insults flying....but that's part of heated debate sometimes. We managed to get to page 16 without trashing the thread.

[Shady]

Yup. Ressurected.

Pun intended?

[betsy]

Pun intended?

[BubberMiley]

Jesus and this thread are equally powerful?

[GostHacked]

Jesus Camp is a scary movie to those who are not indoctrinated by religion. Scares me as much as radical followers of Islam. Actually when you interchange the names (allah for god) the radical Christians and radical Muslims are really no different.

[WIP]

Jesus Camp is a scary movie to those who are not indoctrinated by religion. Scares me as much as radical followers of Islam. Actually when you interchange the names (allah for god) the radical Christians and radical Muslims are really no different.

This movie came out around the time I was noticing a takeover of sorts of conservative media, forums and message boards in the U.S. by the religious right. The first time I joined a discussion forum was Ann Coulter's chat forum after released her foray into god-talk - "Godless" in June 2006...in which she came out as a creationist. You couldn't even find the word "God" or "evolution" mentioned before in most of her columns and books, and all of a sudden she's trying to talk like an evangelical. Since then, we have learned that the anti-evolution crap in that book was ghost-written by guys at the Discovery Institute, and she wasn't even a member of any church at the time of writing....so why did she, and some of the more sensible, reasoned voices on the right start sounding like loony evangelicals about five or six years ago? I presume it has something to do with the fact that they foresaw the Religious Right becoming the dominant special interest in Republican politics, and wanted to get on the gravy side before it was too late.

By the time Jesus Camp came out, Coulter's forum had become overrun with Jesus-talk and abortion, so they declared it to be a smear campaign against their movement. Anyone who disagreed was pretty much sandbagged and either left or was forced out. Many rightwingers like to lump all Muslims together when they talk about a suicide attack or a public stoning going on somewhere in the Muslim World, but the same logic could apply when considering the crazy Jesus Camp. These people aren't a "tiny minority of extremists" either! Their camp was part of an organization sanctioned by the National Association of Evangelicals.....remember Ted Haggard's appearance? They were just a little bit more upfront about their narrow ideology and their goal of raising an army of "Christian warriors."

[scouterjim]

Religious fundamentalism in any form is a concern to all. The only difference between what Christian Fundamentalists, and Islamic fundamentalists want is the name of the faith. Both want nations to be run by religious laws. That means all the freedoms you now take for granted will be gone. Religious service attendence will be mandatory. Nothing will be accomplished without a religious council's okay. No thank you.

Edited February 19, 2011 by scouterjim

[Scotty]

Jesus Camp is a scary movie to those who are not indoctrinated by religion. Scares me as much as radical followers of Islam. Actually when you interchange the names (allah for god) the radical Christians and radical Muslims are really no different.

How many people have the radical Christians murdered over the last few years?

[scouterjim]

How many people have the radical Christians murdered over the last few years?

Irrelevant. Given the chance, those who run that indoctrination camp would install a theocratic government run under their warped view of Biblical law, which differs little from Sharia law. Death for the slightest infraction would become a standard action.

Edited February 27, 2011 by scouterjim

[DogOnPorch]

Jesus Camp is a scary movie to those who are not indoctrinated by religion. Scares me as much as radical followers of Islam. Actually when you interchange the names (allah for god) the radical Christians and radical Muslims are really no different.

I could post violent, bloody videos proving that this is a pile of steaming relativist BS...but why bother?

[scouterjim]

I could post violent, bloody videos proving that this is a pile of steaming relativist BS...but why bother?

Christian nutters are as bad as Muslim nutters. They both can keep all their hogwash, as far as I am concerned.

[DogOnPorch]

Christian nutters are as bad as Muslim nutters. They both can keep all their hogwash, as far as I am concerned.

BS...show me a Christian nut bar hacking off some poor slob's head with a dull knife.

[scouterjim]

BS...show me a Christian nut bar hacking off some poor slob's head with a dull knife.

No, they just blow up, or burn down women's clinics, harrass women entering the clinics, and shoot abortion doctors claiming they are "doing it in the name of God".

[GostHacked]

I could post violent, bloody videos proving that this is a pile of steaming relativist BS...but why bother?

I am sure you can explain how it is relativist BS. Give it a try.

[GostHacked]

Christian nutters are as bad as Muslim nutters. They both can keep all their hogwash, as far as I am concerned.

I am with you on that one.

[cybercoma]

Those claiming Christianity is as bad as Islam are way off base. I have no time for either, but Islam is for more condemnable than modern-day Christianity. In fact, this is the biggest criticism levied against moderate Muslims, that they don't criticize the extremists more. I should point out, however, that this is actually somewhat a myth. Many Muslim groups do condemn much of the extremism that goes on. In any case, to say Christianity is "as bad as Islam" is just absurd.

[GostHacked]

Those claiming Christianity is as bad as Islam are way off base. I have no time for either, but Islam is for more condemnable than modern-day Christianity. In fact, this is the biggest criticism levied against moderate Muslims, that they don't criticize the extremists more. I should point out, however, that this is actually somewhat a myth. Many Muslim groups do condemn much of the extremism that goes on. In any case, to say Christianity is "as bad as Islam" is just absurd.

We've been through this before, the moderates are speaking up, just no one cares to listen. And maybe you need to familiarize yourself with Christianity's looooooooong history of violence. Think of the current 'problems' with Islam as payback.

[DogOnPorch]

Hah, hah...Gosthack and scoutie explaining away mass beheadings. One-two-three...let's blame America.

[Bryan]

No, they just blow up, or burn down women's clinics, harrass women entering the clinics, and shoot abortion doctors claiming they are "doing it in the name of God".

They're stopping people from murdering babies. It's good deed no matter who's name its done in.

[Bitsy]

Hah, hah...Gosthack and scoutie explaining away mass beheadings. One-two-three...let's blame America.

Google mass beheadings and guess what country pops up...Mexico