Israel

Argus · July 19, 2014

Let's just be clear that Jihad isn't always 'war against infidels', though that extremism exists.

It is often, as in Gaza, a struggle for freedom from oppression.

From Jew oppression, you mean. Oppression by Islamic fruitcakes who shoot people out of hand and engage in torture and mutilation are okay.

jacee · July 20, 2014

From Jew oppression, you mean.

Israeli.

.

GostHacked · July 20, 2014

From Jew oppression, you mean. Oppression by Islamic fruitcakes who shoot people out of hand and engage in torture and mutilation are okay.

A Jewish kid saying they want to kill Arabs is as disgusting as Arab kids wanting to kill Jews.

jacee · July 20, 2014

PPS - This situation isn't about freedom from oppression.

Yes it is.

1.6m people - most of them refugees families from the formation of Israel - packed into the Gaza strip, all access and exits controlled, along with water, hydro and natural resources.

Yes, it's oppression.

This is a group that Arabs designate a terrorist group.

You are referring to the "al-Qassam Brigades", Palestinian militants not really under the control of the Hamas government.

.

bush_cheney2004 · July 20, 2014

....all access and exits controlled, along with water, hydro and natural resources.

But not rockets....lots of rockets...for the Greater Gaza Model Rocketry Club.

Hal 9000 · July 21, 2014

Yes it is.

1.6m people - most of them refugees families from the formation of Israel - packed into the Gaza strip, all access and exits controlled, along with water, hydro and natural resources.

Yes, it's oppression.

You are referring to the "al-Qassam Brigades", Palestinian militants not really under the control of the Hamas government.

.

Israel has control of most of the power and water because the infrastructure just isn't there for anything else. And, Israel hasn't even cut them off yet...AFAIK.

You still want to pretend that it's Israeli's oppressing Palastinians, when it's really about Hamas killing Jews. Until you realize this, you're wrong in everything you say.

P.S - I know you like to say Israeli's and not Jews, this prevents you from considering yourself anti-Semitic right?

Big Guy · July 21, 2014

...

P.S - I know you like to say Israeli's and not Jews, this prevents you from considering yourself anti-Semitic right?

Oh yes! The old “anti-Semitic” card. I had wondered how long that would take. You disagree with Israeli policy then you must be anti-Semitic. That will certainly keep anybody from criticizing a policy of disproportionate retribution or any other action that is critical of Israeli policy.

The anti-Semitic card has lost its value. It has been used too often, for too many issues and by too many people.

We have already seen the Hitler card played, now the anti-Semitic card. I am surprised that the Holocaust card has not surfaced. But there is still time.

Let us deal with the reality of what is actually happening on the ground.

Hal 9000 · July 21, 2014

Oh yes! The old “anti-Semitic” card. I had wondered how long that would take. You disagree with Israeli policy then you must be anti-Semitic. That will certainly keep anybody from criticizing a policy of disproportionate retribution or any other action that is critical of Israeli policy.

The anti-Semitic card has lost its value. It has been used too often, for too many issues and by too many people.

We have already seen the Hitler card played, now the anti-Semitic card. I am surprised that the Holocaust card has not surfaced. But there is still time.

Let us deal with the reality of what is actually happening on the ground.

I'm not saying she (or anybody here) is anti-Semitic, simply that she (and most people here) looks to be trying to avoid the idea that this situation is about Hamas (radical Islam) hating the jews - which they do. Hamas don't hide that idea that their goal is to exterminate all the jews, so why pretend it's not there?

Black Dog · July 21, 2014

I'm not saying she (or anybody here) is anti-Semitic, simply that she (and most people here) looks to be trying to avoid the idea that this situation is about Hamas (radical Islam) hating the jews - which they do. Hamas don't hide that idea that their goal is to exterminate all the jews, so why pretend it's not there?

Nobody pretends that Hamas is not antisemitic.

Lots of people equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism.

Argus · July 21, 2014

Let us deal with the reality of what is actually happening on the ground.

It doesn't look like that's something you really have a lot of interest in...

Argus · July 21, 2014

Nobody pretends that Hamas is not antisemitic.

Lots of people equate criticism of Israel with antisemitism.

There is much to criticize about Israel. But let's face facts. If they weren't Jews, the Arabs wouldn't have attacked in the first place, wouldn't have made war on them repeatedly over the past seventy odd years. This entire war, dating back to the first attack, was because the Muslims could not stand the idea of any non-Muslim state in the middle east.

jacee · July 22, 2014

Israel has control of most of the power and water because the infrastructure just isn't there for anything else. And, Israel hasn't even cut them off yet...AFAIK.

gaza-loses-80-of-its-power-due-to-the-israeli-offensive

Al-Deresdawy pointed out that the available electric power is less than 20 percent, since eight out of ten Israeli wires have been hit by airstrikes and their operation requires coordination with Israelis who do not allow the company's staffers to enter Israel.

You still want to pretend that it's Israeli's oppressing Palastinians, when it's really about Hamas killing Jews.

Frightening them maybe.

Not killing them.

P.S - I know you like to say Israeli's and not Jews, this prevents you from considering yourself anti-Semitic right?

I don't blame all Jews for the oppression and destruction of Gaza.

I don't blame all Israelis either - some of whom are Arabs, and many are Jews who don't agree with the actions of their current government.

So I should be even more precise and blame the Netanyahu Israeli government.

.

jacee · July 22, 2014

I'm not saying she (or anybody here) is anti-Semitic, simply that she (and most people here) looks to be trying to avoid the idea that this situation is about Hamas (radical Islam) hating the jews - which they do. Hamas don't hide that idea that their goal is to exterminate all the jews, so why pretend it's not there?

I'm pretty sure Netanyahu and cronies would like to push all Palestinians in Gaza into the sea, and they are succeeding in bombing a lot of them to pieces.

Such is war.

.

Edited July 22, 2014 by jacee

Keepitsimple · July 22, 2014

I'm pretty sure Netanyahu and cronies would like to push all Palestinians in Gaza into the sea, and they are succeeding in bombing a lot of them to pieces.

Such is war.

.

You keep harping on Israel while the ugly face of Islam shows itself in Mosul - and don't kid yourself.....Hamas is cut from the same cloth as ISIS - a murderous push for an all-Arab/all Islam Caliphate for the entire Middle East. Convert to Islam, leave, or die. Your naive ramblings continue to enable the expulsion-or-extermination (but eventually extermination) goal that these midievel monsters are perpetrating. Wake up.

Some went on foot, their cars having been confiscated; others rode bicycles or motor scooters. Few were able to take anything of value, as militants seized their money and jewelry. Some — just a few, and because they were not healthy enough to flee — submitted to demands that they convert to Islam to avoid being killed.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/21/world/middleeast/concern-and-support-for-iraqi-christians-forced-by-isis-militants-to-flee-mosul.html?_r=0

Edited July 22, 2014 by Keepitsimple

GostHacked · July 22, 2014

I'm not saying she (or anybody here) is anti-Semitic, simply that she (and most people here) looks to be trying to avoid the idea that this situation is about Hamas (radical Islam) hating the jews - which they do. Hamas don't hide that idea that their goal is to exterminate all the jews, so why pretend it's not there?

Even if Israel ceases to exist tomorrow, there are millions of Jews living around the world that means there is no existential threat. The only threat is to the state if Israel, nothing more. Countries come and go, but Christians, Jews and Muslims have been battling each other for centuries.

When we criticize the USA, are we blanketing the whole country? No. So that cannot be anti-americanism.

When we criticize Russia, are we blanketing the whole country? No, so that cannot be anti-russianism.

Most here are questioning the leadership of Israel when they get critical about it. I could not give a flying F if they are Jewish or not. It's irrelevant.

So because one takes Israel to task of their actions, they are anti-semites? Don't talk to us like we are children.

GostHacked · July 22, 2014

There is much to criticize about Israel. But let's face facts. If they weren't Jews, the Arabs wouldn't have attacked in the first place, wouldn't have made war on them repeatedly over the past seventy odd years. This entire war, dating back to the first attack, was because the Muslims could not stand the idea of any non-Muslim state in the middle east.

It's the creation of the state of Israel in the land they had occupied that seems to be the issue. I'll even say that is part of the issue we see today. Meaning Israel and the settlements in the occupied territories. The settlements are part of the issue, which goes back to the creation of Israel through similar means. They simply took it, via power.

Edited July 22, 2014 by GostHacked

Argus · July 22, 2014

It's the creation of the state of Israel in the land they had occupied that seems to be the issue. I'll even say that is part of the issue we see today. Meaning Israel and the settlements in the occupied territories. The settlements are part of the issue, which goes back to the creation of Israel through similar means. They simply took it, via power.

Not entirely true. I don't need to go into the whole history do I? Suffice to say there were a lot of Jews there when they decided to partition the area. And, realistically, this was a tiny part of the middle east with a small population of non-Jews which was in no way unique from all the surrounding areas and surrounding cultures. There is no difference whatsoever between a "Palestinian" and a "Jordanian" or a "Syrian" or a "Lebanese". They were ethnically, culturally, linguistically and religiously identical at the time. There was no reason why all of these countries and other Arab countries should feel the need to rush to attack people in Israel -- except they weren't Muslims.

Big Guy · July 22, 2014

Perception is reality. The Palestinians believe that it is their land and that Israel was created by some outside force without their support and consent. They plan to take it back.

The Israelis believe that they were also there at the start, maybe not a nation but a presence, and are entitled to create a nation and are prepared to expand it into where they believe their boundaries should be.

Both sides are prepared to kill or be killed to attain those ends.

So be it.

GostHacked · July 22, 2014

Not entirely true. I don't need to go into the whole history do I?

Sure, why not. Let's start with the Zionist movement of the late 1800's. That's where it started.

BC_chick · July 22, 2014

There is much to criticize about Israel. But let's face facts. If they weren't Jews, the Arabs wouldn't have attacked in the first place, wouldn't have made war on them repeatedly over the past seventy odd years. This entire war, dating back to the first attack, was because the Muslims could not stand the idea of any non-Muslim state in the middle east.

Of course not, that's exactly why it's NOT anti-Semitism that they opposed the Jewish state. They would've done the same thing had the Zionist been polka-dot or martian.

Also, their sentiment is not exactly a result of their religion. Try building a nation full of non-indigenous people in any other part of the world and see what happens. Especially when the formation of the country starts with the expulsion of the natives.

The Palestinian people are not on the offense, they have been on the defence since day one.

iolo · July 22, 2014

The Nazis have begun their extermination programme in Palestine, and their media grovelers are concentrating on air crashes and hate Russia - over far fewer deaths What more is there to say? Anyone who still supports the Zionists has resigned from the human race and is not fit to discuss anything with people..

bush_cheney2004 · July 22, 2014

.... Try building a nation full of non-indigenous people in any other part of the world and see what happens. Especially when the formation of the country starts with the expulsion of the natives.

See "Canada" or "United States". Also..."Multiculturalism". There are plenty of "indigenous people" in Israel.

Edited July 22, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

BC_chick · July 22, 2014

See "Canada" or "United States". Also..."Multiculturalism". There are plenty of "indigenous people" in Israel.

Good examples. The First Nations put up as much of a fight as Palestinians are doing so thanks for proving my point that this has nothing to do with religion, it's about land.

And yes, Jews were in what is now Israel (as they were all over the rest of the world too). However, the Zionists of the 19th century were European and the biggest influx of the Jewish people into Palestine were Jews fleeing the Nazis.

The majority of the Jewish people in Israel are not indigenous to the area and they had no ties to the land. The fact that there was a historical diaspora in the area does not negate that fact.

Lastly, Israel is nothing like Canada and the United States. We don't have a policy that people of trait X can come on in as they please. You clearly have no idea what multiculturalism means.

Keepitsimple · July 22, 2014

The Nazis have begun their extermination programme in Palestine, and their media grovelers are concentrating on air crashes and hate Russia - over far fewer deaths What more is there to say? Anyone who still supports the Zionists has resigned from the human race and is not fit to discuss anything with people..

As I mentioned previously to Jacee - Hamas is cut from the same cloth as ISIS - a murderous push for an all-Arab/all Islam Caliphate for the entire Middle East. Convert to Islam, leave, or die. Your hateful ramblings only continue to enable the expulsion-or-extermination (but eventually extermination) goal that these midievel monsters are perpetrating. Give yourself a shake.

Some went on foot, their cars having been confiscated; others rode bicycles or motor scooters. Few were able to take anything of value, as militants seized their money and jewelry. Some — just a few, and because they were not healthy enough to flee — submitted to demands that they convert to Islam to avoid being killed.

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/21/world/middleeast/concern-and-support-for-iraqi-christians-forced-by-isis-militants-to-flee-mosul.html?_r=0

Edited July 22, 2014 by Keepitsimple

bush_cheney2004 · July 22, 2014

...The majority of the Jewish people in Israel are not indigenous to the area and they had no ties to the land. The fact that there was a historical diaspora in the area does not negate that fact.

The majority of the Catholics, Protestants, Anglicans, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, atheists, etc. in Canada are not "indigenous" to the area and they had no such ties to the land either.

Lastly, Israel is nothing like Canada and the United States. We don't have a policy that people of trait X can come on in as they please. You clearly have no idea what multiculturalism means.

Yes they do...see "Refugee". See "Immigrant Investor Program". Try as you might, you cannot escape the historical and current parallels of Israel's existence when compared to CanAm conquest, settlement, and subjugation of "indigenous people".

Side question: Do native people call Europeans or Asians "indigenous people" or "aboriginals" when referring to the occupants Europe or Asia ?