Canada ups the Ante

[M.Dancer]

OTTAWA — The Canadian Forces' main tank unit is racing to prepare 120 troops and 15 Leopard tanks to send to Afghanistan as early as next week, in what would be a major boost in Canadian military capability there, according to a military expert who observed them.

The Lord Strathcona's Horse unit has been asked to ready a tank squadron so they could be shipped out by Sept. 19, the end of a current training exercise, and possibly sooner, said Bob Bergen, a military expert with the Centre for Military and Strategic Studies at the University of Calgary.

The Grope and Flail

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"When the infantry, for example, come up against a couple of houses where they would suffer casualties going in and clearing that house of the enemy, even though they would win, it's sort of nice to be able to stand back and turn to the tanker and say, 'Take that house out.' "-Gen Lew MacKenzie

[M.Dancer]

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What's wrong with the image thingie|?

[geoffrey]

About time, I wouldn't want to be a Taliban.

[Topaz]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

[Wilber]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

He won't bring a draft. No party in this country would bring in a draft whether they have a majority or not.

[scribblet]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

Don't be sure sure he won't get a majority, but even at that he would never bring in a draft, why would you even think that.

Heck, its a democrat in the U.S. putting forward a bill to bring back the draft. Rangel I believe.

[Argus]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

I doubt there'll be a problem. Recruitment and retention has been an ongoing problem for years, but largely because young people didn't see Canada's military as serving any real purpose, and as having crappy equipment and no respect. I think their current role will excite a lot of young men. No, the real problem with military recruitment has not been recruiting the young men but getting them trained and into the system.

It can take years after they sign up before they actually get to go and get trained, and by that time many have decided to move on elsewhere.

[Wilber]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

I doubt there'll be a problem. Recruitment and retention has been an ongoing problem for years, but largely because young people didn't see Canada's military as serving any real purpose, and as having crappy equipment and no respect. I think their current role will excite a lot of young men. No, the real problem with military recruitment has not been recruiting the young men but getting them trained and into the system.

It can take years after they sign up before they actually get to go and get trained, and by that time many have decided to move on elsewhere.

That is one complaint they have had. They have been cut back so much over the years and given so many missions that they can't spare enough people from operations to keep up with their training.

[geoffrey]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

Don't be sure sure he won't get a majority, but even at that he would never bring in a draft, why would you even think that.

Heck, its a democrat in the U.S. putting forward a bill to bring back the draft. Rangel I believe.

A draft is permenant political suicide for the party and the leader in Canada. Won't happen, ever.

[na85]

A draft is permenant political suicide for the party and the leader in Canada. Won't happen, ever.

Agree. Bringing in conscription would absolutely bury the party that legislated it, especially in Quebec.

[Charles Anthony]

Personally, I suspect that a problem with recruitment is a lack of Canadians who want to be soldiers in foreign countries.

A draft is permenant political suicide for the party and the leader in Canada. Won't happen, ever.

Agree. Bringing in conscription would absolutely bury the party that legislated it, especially in Quebec.

Really???

Two things to consider:

1) More importantly, do you really think anybody would show up? for a draft to send Canadians to Afghanistan, of all places?

What would the military do then? fill up our already over-filled jails with draft dodgers?

2) How would you imagine Canadians dealling with a true war on Canadian soil without a draft? Would a draft be political suicide at that point?

[NativeCharm]

Canada could be on the brink of breaking the bank afa offering any more soldiers. In the past, (and current?) we have heavily relied on the U.S. for their support and have used this as our predominant face of courage when being included as participants with any level of worldly and national affairs.

FTW.

[Higgly]

You don't need a draft to come up with a couple of thousand recruits. Not exactly a major challenge given the number of dropouts and dead-ends out there in our society. How many jobs can you get with a grade 10 education?

The real question is how long will they be there for? Afghanistan is not stable and it is likely to go to pieces if foreign troops pull out. Most Canadians are smart enough to know that this whole shooting match would have been over long ago were it not for George Bush's little adventure in Iraq. We are bascially doing a job that the Americans would have been able to get done if they had stuck to their knitting instead of invading Iraq and if they had not made so many stupid mistakes - for example handing over security in Afghanistan to the same warlords who have keeping the country in turmoil since the time of the Raj.

[Charles Anthony]

You don't need a draft to come up with a couple of thousand recruits. Not exactly a major challenge given the number of dropouts and dead-ends out there in our society. How many jobs can you get with a grade 10 education?

I do not think that is a fair way to describe people who enter the military. Even I would not be that harsh. Besides, I have come across a lot of educated people from the military. Granted, some people acquire their education after recruiting but still, it would not be fair to demean them by putting them on par with people who only want to stop at 10th grade or dropout.

I think there is a different characteristics that unifies military recruits: control, power and submission. It could likely be that the proportion of Canadians today who find such appeal is less than before. Maybe more Canadians prefer minding their own business and prefer independence from authority. Maybe they see that they have more appealing options in life than before. Compared to the U.S.A., maybe there are less opportunities for big business to make money off of the military.

[scribblet]

2) How would you imagine Canadians dealling with a true war on Canadian soil without a draft? Would a draft be political suicide at that point?

If Canada were to be attacked and a full scale war ensued, you might see a draft, but even then there would be a problem. Guess it might depend on who was doing the attacking. Too many recent immigrants might support the attacker e.g. Serbs. I remember listening to a phone in show and hearing people then saying they would go back and fight the Canadian soldiers.

It does give one pause for thought though, can you imagine during WW11 what it would be like in Britain if the 5th estate had been on the side of Hitler and wanted to negotiate !

[Wilber]

Personally, I suspect that a problem with recruitment is a lack of Canadians who want to be soldiers in foreign countries.

A draft is permenant political suicide for the party and the leader in Canada. Won't happen, ever.

Agree. Bringing in conscription would absolutely bury the party that legislated it, especially in Quebec.

Really???

Two things to consider:

1) More importantly, do you really think anybody would show up? for a draft to send Canadians to Afghanistan, of all places?

What would the military do then? fill up our already over-filled jails with draft dodgers?

2) How would you imagine Canadians dealling with a true war on Canadian soil without a draft? Would a draft be political suicide at that point?

1. Not everyone feels the same about Afghanistan as you but there will be no draft because Quebec wouldn't stand for it and if Quebec was exempted the rest of the country wouldn't stand for that.

2. Canada managed to send hundreds of thousands (well over a million total) overseas during the world wars before having to resort to a draft when we had a population less than half of what we have now. Of those drafted few went overseas in WWII. None went in WWI.

If Canada could not get enough people to volunteer for a war on its own soil it wouldn't deserve to exist.

[M.Dancer]

1. Not everyone feels the same about Afghanistan as you but there will be no draft because Quebec wouldn't stand for it and if Quebec was exempted the rest of the country wouldn't stand for that.

2. Canada managed to send hundreds of thousands (well over a million total) overseas during the world wars before having to resort to a draft when we had a population less than half of what we have now. Of those drafted few went overseas in WWII. None went in WWI.

If Canada could not get enough people to volunteer for a war on its own soil it wouldn't deserve to exist.

There would be no draft becasue the military wouldn't stand for it. The quality of draftess is low. No professional soldier would want to have a draftee at his side, not when there are highly motivated, well trained volunteers.......

That and there is zero need for a draft....

[Wilber]

Canada could be on the brink of breaking the bank afa offering any more soldiers. In the past, (and current?) we have heavily relied on the U.S. for their support and have used this as our predominant face of courage when being included as participants with any level of worldly and national affairs.

FTW.

Only the recent past, up until the sixties we were quite capable of pulling our weight and did so. It wasn't until we got bigger and wealthier that the rot set in.

[geoffrey]

Two things to consider:

1) More importantly, do you really think anybody would show up? for a draft to send Canadians to Afghanistan, of all places?

What would the military do then? fill up our already over-filled jails with draft dodgers?

Probably right, no one would show up. Our justice system wouldn't allow it anyways, you do realise how aggressively liberal our SCC is right?

2) How would you imagine Canadians dealling with a true war on Canadian soil without a draft? Would a draft be political suicide at that point?

That's nearly an impossible situation. I think a draft wouldn't matter as we'd all defend our homes by ourselves. But really, who's invading us? And if someone is invading us, what the hell are we going to do about it?

[watching&waiting]

Over the last 3 decades the military was handpicking the recruits it wanted as there were more volunteers then there were placements. I am not so sure now that it is the same. We are adding 30,000 to the numbers of soldiers and because we are updating the equipment as well to modern day almost star wars stuff that many might enlist, but I am not so sure it will be for the right reasons. But I do not see the military saying they are having difficulty in finding people. I know the USA is having trouble and it is assigning quotas for recruiters to sign up, but they have almost had forces much larger then we here in Canada. Also the US forces have a way higher of battlefront soldiers then Canada ever had. If I had to do it all over again, I think a military career would have been good. The pensions after 30 Years service are great and with a little enitiative climbing the ranks is not a hard thing to do.

As for if a war was here on Canadian soil, I would be in it even with my disabilities, as I would rather die fighting for a country I love then watch in be over run by outsiders. They would not have to draft me and I would be there in a shot, knowing full well my life maybe on the line.

[jdobbin]

Van Doos to Afghanistan now.

CBC news is reporting that they will be going soon. They had been scheduled to go next summer.

[jbg]

The military is out recruiting right now and you'll probably hear they are in your town, city or village shortly! So.... if they can't get the troops they need what will Harper do.... well he can't bring in a draft until he has a majority government and that will never happen!

Don't be sure sure he won't get a majority, but even at that he would never bring in a draft, why would you even think that.

Heck, its a democrat in the U.S. putting forward a bill to bring back the draft. Rangel I believe.

Yes. The Rangel bill's purpose is to make the Iraq War unpopular. The bill's purpose is to scare people. He's not serious about its enactment. Trust me on that.

[jdobbin]

Canada to send more troops to Afghanistan.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/15092006/2/nati...fghanistan.html

[Wilber]

Canada to send more troops to Afghanistan.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/15092006/2/nati...fghanistan.html

Good, a half assed commitment yields half assed results, if you're lucky.

[geoffrey]

Canada to send more troops to Afghanistan.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/15092006/2/nati...fghanistan.html

Good, a half assed commitment yields half assed results, if you're lucky.

Yup, these troops are to support the reconstruction team and to back up our soliders with some proper armour and mortar protection. Makes sense.