Canadian troops making things worse: Afghan legislator

[gerryhatrick]

Canadian troops making things worse: Afghan legislator

Mike De Souza, CanWest News Service

QUEBEC -- Canada's troops are making matters worse for the Afghan people, a popular member of the war-torn country's national assembly told an NDP policy convention Friday.

With federal New Democrats debating a resolution to withdraw Canadian troops from combat in southern Afghanistan over the next six months, Malalai Joya, 27, the youngest elected Afghan parliamentarian, said efforts to fight the Taliban are helping warlords and drug lords take control of the country, suppressing the voices and rights of women and children.

"If (Canadians) want to prove themselves as real friends of the Afghan people, they must act independently," said Joya, who has escaped several assassination attempts since she was first elected in 2003. "They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

rest here --> http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...2c-7c5c27e12a56

Well that's interesting. ArmyGuy - our man in the Afghan - should have a comment on this.

If it's true then it's obvious why more debate on the mission is required. "Stay the course" is not an intelligent mantra, as we've seen demonstrated in Iraq.

[B. Max]

Sounds like something is fishy here. The only policy Canada is following is to get rid of the Taliban terrorists. All I hear from this shill is American bashing, nothing about getting rid of the Taliban. Looks like we've let another terrorist sympathizer into the country whos first stop was to see old Jack Taliban and his gang of sympathizers.

[Durgan]

Lets face a bit of reality.

The media Journalists are so poor reporting the facts, that they might as well close shop. Journalism is popular, but it is popular mainly as fiction. Life is one world, and life seen in the newspapers is another.

Gilbert K. Chesterton

The Afghan President doesn't dare move without the 32 US Special Forces body guards. He has absolutely no authority outside of Kabul. Shiah Law prevails. The Taliban operated under the same laws when they had power. All that is in power nominally is a puppet acceptable to the West.

The Canadians's stay in their fortresses, and are under threatened attack when they move on the roads. They even speed down the center of the road in Kabul, and alienate the people there.

The people are in dire straights all over the country. Aid is not getting to the outlying areas, which constitutes most of Afghansitan. The Taliban had erradicated opium growing. There is a bumper crop this year, 2006.

Pakistan troops are being removed from the border, and most of Pakistan has sympathy with the Taliban, who are on a jihad against the foreigners.

The West has basically lost the support of most of the Afghans, and the hatred is increasing daily.

The number claimed dead are often non-combatants. The only true figures are our own dead.

Patriots in Canada are babbling about supporting our troops. Our leaders have placed the troops in severe danger with no chance of winning anything, except to create death and destruction to all of Afghansitan .And more and more body bags for the final resting place in Canada. 'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'

Gilbert K. Chesterton

Support our troops by removing them from the theatre is the only sensible choice as soon as it is politically correct to do so.

I hope you all notice our press doesn't report on the activities of the other NATO Troops in the theatre. Few of the 37 NATO countries are supporting this mission with material. It is mostly rhetoric.

This is not a war against terorism, but murder on a vast scale.

The West is creating a situation, where hatred will continue for years.

Minor so called terrorist plots are blown out of proportion by the media. People are looking for terrorists almost under their beds. The perpatrators of these plots are criminals. May I remind you of the two who drove across the US shooting at random , and the destruction in Oklohoma City.

9/11 was a dastardly deed, and needed revenge. I suggest we got our revenge, and enough blood for sacrifice in Afghansitan. This post is about Afghanistan not Iraqi so I will refrain.

Even the main line Taliban dislikes the terrorists, who attack indiscrimately, and often do not support their actions.

It is time to negotiate.

I might add due to the Internet all the relevant information is available, all one has to do is look.

Durgan.

[Ricki Bobbi]

It's obvious more debate is needed on the mission in Afghanistan because a speaker at an NDP convention said so. *wow* there is proof right there if I have ever seen it.

[Led Boots]

"If (Canadians) want to prove themselves as real friends of the Afghan people, they must act independently," said Joya, who has escaped several assassination attempts since she was first elected in 2003. "They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

Wouldn't the fact that Miss Joya has been elected to the national assembly be considered a positive result?

[Topaz]

I don't know if that is true but I did find that the country's government has former warlords within its government and they are probably enjoying the profits from the poppies! I still believe, that the uS went in there against the Taliban and its business with oil and not for OBL. We shouldn't be there!

[Led Boots]

I don't know if that is true but I did find that the country's government has former warlords within its government and they are probably enjoying the profits from the poppies! I still believe, that the uS went in there against the Taliban and its business with oil and not for OBL. We shouldn't be there!

I'm not sure I understand your comment. My understanding of Afghanistans oil reserves doesn't exactly put it in the same league as Saudi Arabia so I disagree that this anything to do with oil.

The fact that some warlords have been elected into the Afghan govenment does not really surpirise me as war and the taliban is all some Afghani's have ever known.

[Wilber]

Durgan

I don't know how others feel but when you stop using bold and start using the same size font as everyone else, I will start reading your posts.

[Ricki Bobbi]

I'm not sure I understand your comment. My understanding of Afghanistans oil reserves doesn't exactly put it in the same league as Saudi Arabia so I disagree that this anything to do with oil.

As of 2003 Afghanistan didn't produce *ANY* oil. (source) Couldn't find any more up to date information, but come on how much could have changed in 2 1/2 years?

When people make arguments that have *zero* foundation in reality it's tough to take them seriously.

[Durgan]

Durgan

I don't know how others feel but when you stop using bold and start using the same size font as everyone else, I will start reading your posts.

First of all it is not bold it is Times Roman and is size 4. The choicer is given on the site, I choose that because it is easy to read. I have great respect for the 25 sheep, who veer off rather than follow the other 475 over a cliff, when 500 are stampeding. Whether you read it or not is of no interest to me, and possibly many others, ignorance is bliss to some to use a trite phrase, , which seems to be your criteria. Q.E. D.

Durgan.

[jbg]

Lets face a bit of reality.

The people are in dire straights all over the country. Aid is not getting to the outlying areas, which constitutes most of Afghansitan. The Taliban had erradicated opium growing. There is a bumper crop this year, 2006.

They were a picture of prosperity between 1973, when the constitutional monarchy was deposed by Taraki (I think) and the end of Taliban rule?

Pakistan troops are being removed from the border, and most of Pakistan has sympathy with the Taliban, who are on a jihad against the foreigners.

Back in the days of Marco Polo the same jihad was going on.

The West has basically lost the support of most of the Afghans, and the hatred is increasing daily.

They didn't hate us on September 11, 2001?

The number claimed dead are often non-combatants. The only true figures are our own dead.

The Taliban didn't slaughter non-combatants, both at home and in NYC?

Patriots in Canada are babbling about supporting our troops. Our leaders have placed the troops in severe danger with no chance of winning anything, except to create death and destruction to all of Afghansitan .And more and more body bags for the final resting place in Canada. 'My country, right or wrong' is a thing no patriot would ever think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying 'My mother, drunk or sober.'

Gilbert K. Chesterton

Support our troops by removing them from the theatre is the only sensible choice as soon as it is politically correct to do so.

You don't value freedom enough to keep the barbarians at bay?

This is not a war against terorism, but murder on a vast scale.

You mean Western troops are detonating themselves in order to cause indiscriminate slaughter?

It is time to negotiate.

With who? About what?

[geoffrey]

The number claimed dead are often non-combatants. The only true figures are our own dead.

Evidence please? One key aspect of an argument is some proof to back it. Where's yours?

[gerryhatrick]

Sounds like something is fishy here. The only policy Canada is following is to get rid of the Taliban terrorists. All I hear from this shill is American bashing, nothing about getting rid of the Taliban. Looks like we've let another terrorist sympathizer into the country whos first stop was to see old Jack Taliban and his gang of sympathizers.

The legislator said

"They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

THAT is "America bashing" in your view? Saying that a US policy isn't working equals "America bashing"?

You need to work on your objectivity a bit I'd say.

[gerryhatrick]

Durgan

I don't know how others feel but when you stop using bold and start using the same size font as everyone else, I will start reading your posts.

Second that.

[daddyhominum]

Canadian troops making things worse: Afghan legislator

Mike De Souza, CanWest News Service

QUEBEC -- Canada's troops are making matters worse for the Afghan people, a popular member of the war-torn country's national assembly told an NDP policy convention Friday.

....

"If (Canadians) want to prove themselves as real friends of the Afghan people, they must act independently," said Joya, ...

rest here --> http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...2c-7c5c27e12a56

Well that's interesting. ArmyGuy - our man in the Afghan - should have a comment on this.

If it's true then it's obvious why more debate on the mission is required. "Stay the course" is not an intelligent mantra, as we've seen demonstrated in Iraq.

Notice that Joya does not call for Canada's withdrawal but for independent action by Canada in Afghanistan.

It would be good to hear precisely what policies the US is following and Canada supporting, that are in contention. According to the Canadian government and military, Canada is following the policies established by NATO rather then those of the USA.

I suspect that Joya wants Canada to help remove all warlords from public life whether they were elected or appointed and quite rightly so. OTOH, I expect NATO and the US need the co-operation of the warlords to prevent insurgents from taking over Afghanistan and re-establishing a taliban type government.

[newbie]

I'm not sure I understand your comment. My understanding of Afghanistans oil reserves doesn't exactly put it in the same league as Saudi Arabia so I disagree that this anything to do with oil.

As of 2003 Afghanistan didn't produce *ANY* oil. (source) Couldn't find any more up to date information, but come on how much could have changed in 2 1/2 years?

When people make arguments that have *zero* foundation in reality it's tough to take them seriously.

It's actually about Unocal's proposed pipeline across Afghanistan that's in question, but that's old news now.

[August1991]

This is how the G & M has reported on this:

As part of a keynote address to the NDP convention, Ms. Joya said Afghans view the replacement of the Taliban with the Northern Alliance as having the effect of replacing one set of "misogynist warlords" with another.

Ms. Joya did not comment directly on the NDP's new position calling for the immediate withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan.

"Our people don't consider the U.S. as liberators of our country," she said, noting that she has received death threats for singling out the warlords who have been given senior positions in the Hamid Karzai government.

She is just one parliamentarian, a formidable one apparently, but then one can imagine what Jack Layton MP might say abroad about Canada.

I think she highlights the difference between westren interests in Afghanistan and the interests (as she sees them) of the Afghan people. We primarily want to rid the world of a dangerous regime, or a regime that offers a place of operations for a terrorist group. She wants to start the process toward a "civilized" Afghanistan.

For the moment, the Americans are willing to live with an Afghan government that has support from the Northern Alliance. She finds that intolerable, since in her eyes, too many of them are war criminals. I'm not certain she'd agree with Layton's proposal to negotiate with the Taliban. Her family only returned to Afghanistan after it was ousted.

I sympathize with her. What do you do when your country becomes an international headline? It is a bit like being a member of a family with a notorious violent criminal, sought by the police. One's efforts to create a normal domestic life are constantly hampered by the police investigation.

[gerryhatrick]

Notice that Joya does not call for Canada's withdrawal but for independent action by Canada in Afghanistan.

It would be good to hear precisely what policies the US is following and Canada supporting, that are in contention. According to the Canadian government and military, Canada is following the policies established by NATO rather then those of the USA.

I suspect that Joya wants Canada to help remove all warlords from public life whether they were elected or appointed and quite rightly so. OTOH, I expect NATO and the US need the co-operation of the warlords to prevent insurgents from taking over Afghanistan and re-establishing a taliban type government.

Oh no, she's a "terrorist sympathizer" engaging in a little "American bashing". B-Max said so.

Very reasoned analysis, btw.

[Argus]

"If (Canadians) want to prove themselves as real friends of the Afghan people, they must act independently," said Joya, who has escaped several assassination attempts since she was first elected in 2003. "They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

Wouldn't the fact that Miss Joya has been elected to the national assembly be considered a positive result?

More to the point - what exactly is she talking about? Act independantly how? She says we're doing more harm than good but gives absolutely no suggestion about how we should change what we're doing.

[Argus]

Canadian troops making things worse: Afghan legislator

Mike De Souza, CanWest News Service

QUEBEC -- Canada's troops are making matters worse for the Afghan people, a popular member of the war-torn country's national assembly told an NDP policy convention Friday.

With federal New Democrats debating a resolution to withdraw Canadian troops from combat in southern Afghanistan over the next six months, Malalai Joya, 27, the youngest elected Afghan parliamentarian, said efforts to fight the Taliban are helping warlords and drug lords take control of the country, suppressing the voices and rights of women and children.

"If (Canadians) want to prove themselves as real friends of the Afghan people, they must act independently," said Joya, who has escaped several assassination attempts since she was first elected in 2003. "They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

rest here --> http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...2c-7c5c27e12a56

Well that's interesting. ArmyGuy - our man in the Afghan - should have a comment on this.

If it's true then it's obvious why more debate on the mission is required. "Stay the course" is not an intelligent mantra, as we've seen demonstrated in Iraq.

"Act independantly" is not an intelligent suggestion either without any specifics to accompany it.

[Argus]

Sounds like something is fishy here. The only policy Canada is following is to get rid of the Taliban terrorists. All I hear from this shill is American bashing, nothing about getting rid of the Taliban. Looks like we've let another terrorist sympathizer into the country whos first stop was to see old Jack Taliban and his gang of sympathizers.

The legislator said

"They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

THAT is "America bashing" in your view? Saying that a US policy isn't working equals "America bashing"?

You need to work on your objectivity a bit I'd say.

It would help if she explained what aspects of this "policy" she doesn't like.

[Canuck E Stan]

She says we're doing more harm than good but gives absolutely no suggestion about how we should change what we're doing.

Precisely what the 90% of the NDP delegates seem to have forgotten.

Pull the troops out of Afghanistan, and what happens to the people we were sent to protect, in particular the Afghanistan women.

[Led Boots]

"If (Canadians) want to prove themselves as real friends of the Afghan people, they must act independently," said Joya, who has escaped several assassination attempts since she was first elected in 2003. "They continued the policy of the U.S. and our people don't agree with U.S. policy, and this is why there is no positive results right now."

Wouldn't the fact that Miss Joya has been elected to the national assembly be considered a positive result?

More to the point - what exactly is she talking about? Act independantly how? She says we're doing more harm than good but gives absolutely no suggestion about how we should change what we're doing.

What she would like to see change in regards to policy is uncertain given her brief statement in the OP. It could be that she explained this in its entirety but the stated article is more concerned with spreading disdain for the Afghan mission amongst the Canadian public than getting Joya’s true point across.

[Army Guy]

Well that's interesting. ArmyGuy - our man in the Afghan - should have a comment on this.

If it's true then it's obvious why more debate on the mission is required. "Stay the course" is not an intelligent mantra, as we've seen demonstrated in Iraq.

What do you or miss Joya think will happen if Canada or the rest of Nato pull out of Afgan at this time ?. Cival war, perhaps a return of the taliban? Has anybody got that answer? or is it because we don't give a shit what happens as long as it does not interfer with Hockey night in Canada, or my pogie check...

Whom does she think will fill the void when they leave? Yes the NDP has found thier golden star, someone in the AFGAN government that does not think that NATO should be there. to further thier cause which is really to pull out of afgan nothing more, they have no exit stratagy nor do they care to bring one up ,they are concerned with they're image nothing more so that we the military can go on other less dangerous missions and pull out of them before the job is done. Yes we will earn the repution as quiters, but who cares. we got a game to watch...Who cares that Canada has already paid a price of a good many soldiers, and how many billions...

The Canadians's stay in their fortresses, and are under threatened attack when they move on the roads. They even speed down the center of the road in Kabul, and alienate the people there.

I've been in Afgan for little over 3 weeks and have spent a total of 3 days in the so called fortress you talk about or have you not been reading the news. come out of your hole research something before blowing off the steam.

It is time to negotiate.

I might add due to the Internet all the relevant information is available, all one has to do is look.

Yes give it a try, give us some proof that all we doing is alienating the people and commiting mass murder of inocent Afgans, because the ones of been meeting all week are very well armed and not interested in talking at all .

i know you've been busy at the NDP convention and have missed alot , hell i missed you guys as well, had the tea and biscuts ready but none of you guys showed up.

[B. Max]

Oh no, she's a "terrorist sympathizer" engaging in a little "American bashing". B-Max said so.

Very reasoned analysis, btw.

I guess while in kanuckistan, the thing to do is participate in the countries favourite pass time. America bashing.

We've been down that US policy road before. What policy don't these people like. The one where the US says you have anything to do with murdering americans and you'll get your ass kicked.