Israel targets a UN outpost

[jdobbin]

I would expect Finland, Austria and Canada, though, to just accept an Israeli apology and that will be the end of it.

Well, Canada was part of these negotiaitons that broke down in Rome. It was said there were some pointed questions to Israel about how an international force wouldn't simply be in the line of fire from two sides wanting to duke it out.

I doubt very much that Canada will be drawn into any type of force on the ground given the conditons in Lebanon.

[watching&waiting]

Anyone or any group who enters a war zone during active operations runs a chance of getting killed. Whether it be deliberate or by mistake. The U.N. must take much of the responsibility for sending their people there in the first place. You do not see anyone agreeing with the U.N. on anything so far do you. So why do they think that it is ok for them to stroll into a war zone and claim they are not to be targeted as they are only observing. The fact that the post was there, I would imagine that it was also used by the Hezbolla as a place to launch an attck from it etc.

As any thinking person would be sorry for the losses, I also have to ask why they were there at this point in time to begin with. I see no reason as yet for them being there as it seems that both sides still are far apart in much of what is needed. I sympathize with those who died, but when sitting in the middle of a war front, even if you are neutral is not ever going to be a safe thing.

[jdobbin]

As any thinking person would be sorry for the losses, I also have to ask why they were there at this point in time to begin with. I see no reason as yet for them being there as it seems that both sides still are far apart in much of what is needed. I sympathize with those who died, but when sitting in the middle of a war front, even if you are neutral is not ever going to be a safe thing.

This is probaly why the talk of an international force broke down in discussions. Israel and Hezbollah and Lebanon will have to sort this out on their own.

[Black Dog]

The fact that the UN outpost had reported 14 close calls since tues, was not a sign to the UN commander to pull this outpost into safety or atleast move it. Acidents happen in war, all of them tragic your report is nothing more than here say.

If this outpost was clearly marked, then why was Israel targeting it in the first place? Apparently they kept firing even as resuce operations were taking place. I know a lot of people here prefer to give Israel the benefit of the doubt, but they do have a history of this kind of thing (see: USS Liberty, Qana Massacre). Rule number one is get rid of the witnesses.

As any thinking person would be sorry for the losses, I also have to ask why they were there at this point in time to begin with. I see no reason as yet for them being there as it seems that both sides still are far apart in much of what is needed. I sympathize with those who died, but when sitting in the middle of a war front, even if you are neutral is not ever going to be a safe thing.

They were part of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, which has existed since 1978. Their prescence was unrelated to the current conflict.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I know a lot of people here prefer to give Israel the benefit of the doubt, but they do have a history of this kind of thing (see: USS Liberty, Qana Massacre). Rule number one is get rid of the witnesses.

They were part of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, which has existed since 1978. Their prescence was unrelated to the current conflict.

So you are suggesting that Israel attacked with malice and forethought to destroy a UN post. That would be a little foolish don't you think?

[Kindred]

That would be a little foolish don't you think

And of course everything they have done has been so RATIONAL up until now?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

What they have done so far is defend their nation and its citizens. Its no skin off my back one way or the other what those folks do over there, I can't do anything about it.

It looks like the world's politicians will allow the currrent situation to continue for the time being. No cease fire is expected because there is no way to get the freaking terrorists to cease their attacks. It takes two to tango, and people are dropping dead all over the place in both countries with no hope in sight for any of the innocent citizens of either counttry.

So Kindred, where do you stand now. A cease fire won't happen because of the terrorists decision not to cease fire, is it still Israels fault?

[Technocrat]

Its amazing how many "accidental precision bombings" occur.

Chinese Embassy - Bombed by nato or the US) <-you can correct me on this one

Al Jazeera TV station - Bombed by US AFTER Al Jazeera contacted USAF giving them exact GPS coordinates of their building

Anyone else find this latest episode more then just a little odd?

Annan is justifiably pissed at Isreal,

How many phone calls does it take to stop the IDF from bombing a neutral party?

Apparently 10 times is just not enough... well... its enough to get a bomb dropped on your head...

[Jerry J. Fortin]

There is a really good book to read, I think it was called Blue on Blue. Friendly fire has always been an issue in modern war. Things are being reacted to very quickly in modern warfare and sometimes inaccurate inteligence is at fault, sometimes its just human error. The point is that shit happens in war. People die.

[newbie]

If this outpost was clearly marked, then why was Israel targeting it in the first place? Apparently they kept firing even as resuce operations were taking place. I know a lot of people here prefer to give Israel the benefit of the doubt, but they do have a history of this kind of thing (see: USS Liberty, Qana Massacre).

No, no, you see hezbollah were hiding in there. That makes all the more rational.

[Black Dog]

So you are suggesting that Israel attacked with malice and forethought to destroy a UN post. That would be a little foolish don't you think?

I'm saying it's a possibility. As for foolish: why? If there goal was to keep third parties from interfering, then that's a good way to accomplish that.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Possible yes, likely no. More likely is simple human error.

[GostHacked]

The thing is the UN DOES wear uniforms. And are easily distinquishable from ANY army. Big UN armband. Blue helmet. Don't even try to pull 'mistaken for terrorists. Since the outpost was there for a few years. Israel knew what it was and were it was. This does not seem like an accident.

According the the BBC , Israel was contacted and warned about the situation.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5217176.stm

A senior Irish soldier working for the UN forces had warned the Israelis six times that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff, Ireland's foreign ministry said.

Fom CNN : http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/26/...main/index.html (damn they just updated the artcle too)

Lebanese security sources told CNN Wednesday at least three precision-guided bombs were dropped by Israeli aircraft on the U.N. observers' bunker.

CNN headline

-U.N. outraged by 'apparently deliberate' airstrike, - now points to the artlcle about 8 Israeli soldiers getting killed then the UN mention is halfway down. Nice job CNN.

But anyways 3 precision bombs? 3?

[MightyAC]

Possible yes, likely no. More likely is simple human error.

If it was human error it was a big one. Considering, the UN called Israel 10 times in a 6 hour period telling them the bombs were close to their post. Each time Israel said the bombing would stop.

[geoffrey]

The more I hear about this story, the more it sounds like it was planned. Israel has good intelligence, and laser guided weaponary. They say it was a mistaken target even though they knew what was there.

Questionable. If it wasn't planned from higher up in command, then a cocky fighter pilot deserves the firing squad.

[scribblet]

More like Hezbollah is using the UN people as shields - typical tactics.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?en...itions#comments

Interview on CBC radio with Canadian retired major general Lewis Mackenzie, discussing the death of a Canadian peacekeeper, one of four killed at the UN outpost on Tuesday, whom he knew:

"We received emails from him a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."

[jdobbin]

More like Hezbollah is using the UN people as shields - typical tactics.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?en...itions#comments

Interview on CBC radio with Canadian retired major general Lewis Mackenzie, discussing the death of a Canadian peacekeeper, one of four killed at the UN outpost on Tuesday, whom he knew:

"We received emails from him a few days ago, and he was describing the fact that he was taking fire within, in one case, three meters of his position for tactical necessity, not being targeted. Now that's veiled speech in the military. What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that's a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can't be punished for it."

Interesting. But it could also mean that the U.N. location was still deliberately targetted because Hezzbollah was around it.

One thing is certain, the Irish are pissed.

[Black Dog]

More like Hezbollah is using the UN people as shields - typical tactics.

Even if true, it's irrelevant. Israel has a responsibility to ensure that non-combatants are kept safe. You can't expect Hizbullah to do it. Again, we come to principle of proportinality: was the military advantage gained from eliminating whatever Hizbulah positions were in the area great enough to justify bombarding this post? That remans unclear.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

There is another thing that is certain. Those human beings would not have lost their lives had it not been for the terrorists that started this thing in the first place.

Were the Islraeli's reponsible, in a word yes. But can they be blamed for these deaths, no. Call it whatever you want, friendly fire or human error it makes no difference there are casualties of war. If it were not for war they would have lived. Who started the war, they are too blame...........

[August1991]

Anyone or any group who enters a war zone during active operations runs a chance of getting killed. Whether it be deliberate or by mistake. The U.N. must take much of the responsibility for sending their people there in the first place.

I agree.

The absurdity here is that UNIFIL is supposed to be a peacekeeping force between Hizballah and Israel. Well, the two are at war. What the hell was UNIFIL doing there? They should have been pulled.

What's the famous phrase to describe this? I think the Israelis fired "accidentally on purpose". I suspect that in the minds of Israeli soldiers, UNIFIL is no better than Hizballah. But what do I know.

"I am shocked and deeply distressed by the apparently deliberate targeting by Israeli Defence Forces," Annan said in an unusually strong statement.

"The co-ordinated artillery and aerial attack on a long established and clearly marked UN post ... occurred despite personal assurances given to me by (Israeli) Prime Minister Ehud Olmert that UN positions would be spared Israeli fire."

National Post

Harper indicated he did not agree with UN Secretary General Kofi Annan’s characterization of the Israeli hit as "deliberate targeting" of UN personnel.

"I certainly doubt that to be the case, given that the government of Israel has been co-operating with us in our evacuation efforts, in our attempts to move Canadian citizens out of Lebanon, and also trying to keep our own troops that are on the ground involved in that evacuation out of harms way. So, I seriously doubt that," he said.

National Post

Tragedy aside, I think Harper is enjoying this part of being PM.

[Kindred]

The UN members appeared enmasse tonight to say the bombing was deliberate, that the UN Peacekeepers on the ground were in contact with Israel. had given them their coordinates and asked them to stop shelling in their area, and told them there were no Hezballuh in the area and the immediate response was to send a rocket their way, probably using the coordinates they had been given ......

[jbg]

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said he was "deeply distressed" by the "apparently deliberate" strike.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/25/...main/index.html

Mr Annan and Mme Arbour are pretty quick at the lip when it comes to making accusations against Israel.

Of course. It's well known that Israel is behind evey senseless massacre, such as September 11, the Mumbai train attacks, the slaughter at the Russian opera, etc.

I would like to see some evidence.

As a very great leader of a very great democracy once said: "A proof is a proof (Link) What kind of proof ? It's a proof. A proof is proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it is proven."

[gerryhatrick]

Anyone or any group who enters a war zone during active operations runs a chance of getting killed. Whether it be deliberate or by mistake. The U.N. must take much of the responsibility for sending their people there in the first place.

I agree.

The absurdity here is that UNIFIL is supposed to be a peacekeeping force between Hizballah and Israel. Well, the two are at war. What the hell was UNIFIL doing there? They should have been pulled.

One poster thinks they entered a "war zone". The reply is "what were they doing there?"

This is like a punch and judy comedy.

The UN members were there as observers. It was part of a UN cease fire thingy, ya know?

The UN does a lot of that observer stuff, usually at great risk to themselves.

Theyr'e F$%KING heros.

Just because things start flying they're not going to cut and run, nor should they.

Harper is an idiot for suggesting that, btw.

[August1991]

The UN members were there as observers. It was part of a UN cease fire thingy, ya know?

The UN does a lot of that observer stuff, usually at great risk to themselves.

What's there to observe? There's a war?

There was certainly no "cease fire thingy" (and as an observor several thousand kilometers away, I observed that.) Excuse my sarcasm, Gerry. I am pointing out that the UN is irrelevant, and even dangerous because it is partisan.

Harper is an idiot for suggesting that, btw.

If you read Harper's logic, it makes sense. He said that Israel was helpful for organizing Canadian evacuations from south Lebanon. So presumably Israel was also helpful to the UN about its "peacekeepers".

Uh. What do you think that Canadian soldiers will not be participating in UN peacekeeping activities in the future?

[sharkman]

I believe the UN cut and run from Iraq about the time the invasion(of Iraq) started. They run when it suits them. Heros? Right. Since they haven't uttered a supportive word towards Israel in, oh, about a decade, I'll wager they stay and eagerly add up the bodies.

Gerry, there isn't a cease fire yet, is there? Maybe after Israel roots out the twits who are sending rockets into their country.