Are anti-datacenter people foreign actors?

[paxamericana]

They certainly are one type of special interest instigating what I see as a non issue.  The indefensible position against AI data center has  little or no evidence on negative impact to local communities. Sure there is the temporary inconvenience of construction but that is no different than any construction project.

Edited May 27 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

6 hours ago, paxamericana said:

They certainly are one type of special interest instigating what I see as a non issue.  The indefensible position against AI data center has  little or no evidence on negative impact to local communities. Sure there is the temporary inconvenience of construction but that is no different than any construction project.

.......... contrary to political rhetoric, data centers do not create large scale employment, (construction notwithstanding)

People are concerned about the incredible demand on energy -  the demand is enormous and expect to get more so - enough energy to sustain a 1000000 homes - who pays? U pay! 

Water for cooling .......... is another concern. 

All that being said, data center construction is akin  to having a dump in ur back yard?

Necessary, but not in my backyard? 

There is little community gain? 

Technology might be slowed, but it can  never be stopped. 

China doesn't seem to suffer from the peasants concerns. 

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, John Stone said:

.......... contrary to political rhetoric, data centers do not create large scale employment, (construction notwithstanding)

People are concerned about the incredible demand on energy -  the demand is enormous and expect to get more so - enough energy to sustain a 1000000 homes - who pays? U pay! 

Water for cooling .......... is another concern. 

All that being said, data center construction is akin  to having a dump in ur back yard?

Necessary, but not in my backyard? 

There is little community gain? 

Technology might be slowed, but it can  never be stopped. 

China doesn't seem to suffer from the peasants concerns. 

Well...this is at least partially true.

I've been through this. The construction does employ more people than the DC daily operations. However, because of the existence of the DC, more main office and remote staff are required. System Admins, PMs, IT Architects, etc...

That the public pays for the energy usage of the DC is bullshit. Just plain bullshit.

[John Stone]

36 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Well...this is at least partially true.

I've been through this. The construction does employ more people than the DC daily operations. However, because of the existence of the DC, more main office and remote staff are required. System Admins, PMs, IT Architects, etc...

That the public pays for the energy usage of the DC is bullshit. Just plain bullshit.

The DC owners negotiate with State gov for special (discounted) energy rates?

The shortfall is made up by the tax payer thru higher rates. 

Very few are employed at DCs ................. basically a bldg of servers. 

 

Edited May 27 by John Stone

[robosmith]

9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

They certainly are one type of special interest instigating what I see as a non issue.  The indefensible position against AI data center has  little or no evidence on negative impact to local communities. Sure there is the temporary inconvenience of construction but that is no different than any construction project.

Are YOU a FOREIGN ACTOR out to push American workers into poverty by replacing their jobs with AI, increasing their costs of energy, and destroying their houses with destructive storms such as the near record tornadoes in 2026?

 

 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Well...this is at least partially true.

I've been through this. The construction does employ more people than the DC daily operations. However, because of the existence of the DC, more main office and remote staff are required. System Admins, PMs, IT Architects, etc...

That the public pays for the energy usage of the DC is bullshit. Just plain bullshit.

Our energy costs are increasing every year to pay for construction of NEW SOURCES and HIGHER DEMAND FOR FUEL.

You are obviously NOT an economist, you just pretend to be one on the interwebz.

[gatomontes99]

Most of the DCs are installing their own electrical generation because the grid is not reliable enough. Also, many are using a closed loop water cooling system to save on water costs. 

[West]

Would rather the Bangladeshis not have access to my data but also don't trust the Liberals to do the right thing and not surveil political opponents either. See the Biden administration 

[herbie]

Anyone not in favour of datacenters that gobble up as much electricity and fresh water as a medium sized town while putting thousands out of work must be an unAmerican commie.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, John Stone said:

The DC owners negotiate with State gov for special (discounted) energy rates?

The shortfall is made up by the tax payer thru higher rates. 

 

 

That makes zero sense whatsoever. 

Give me an example of that happening. Where did they see this occur?

You're not talking about a discount, you're talking about a subsidy where the state pays the data center essentially.  The state isn't going to sell power at a LOSS that would have to be 'made up' by the people in most cases. 

And the commitment and contract from the data center should be able to be leveraged to build more power supply. 

And as i understand it data centers mostly use closed loop water systems now, and it wouldn't impact anyone. 

 

Kind of feels like the concerns are being grossly over exaggerated

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

Are YOU a FOREIGN ACTOR out to push American workers into poverty by replacing their jobs with AI, increasing their costs of energy, and destroying their houses with destructive storms such as the near record tornadoes in 2026?

 

 

“Pliers make my job easier, let’s ban them” that’s your laymen response.

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Anyone not in favour of datacenters that gobble up as much electricity and fresh water as a medium sized town while putting thousands out of work must be an unAmerican commie.

agreed.

5 hours ago, John Stone said:

China doesn't seem to suffer from the peasants concerns. 

I know right, if only…

4 hours ago, John Stone said:

Very few are employed at DCs ................. basically a bldg of servers. 

It’s a different eco system. The people that make the chip, design the software to use with data center, and all associated supply chain. It’s not an office building or a factory. That’s the wrong way of looking at it.

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, John Stone said:

The DC owners negotiate with State gov for special (discounted) energy rates?

The shortfall is made up by the tax payer thru higher rates. 

Very few are employed at DCs ................. basically a bldg of servers. 

 

I wouldn't doubt they try to negotiate better rates for bulk usage. I've never seen it though and I doubt your premise concerning taxes.

There are always hardware and OS/network admins on staff at any DC. There's also the contractors who do all the heavy lifting, cable pulling and electrical work.

Have you ever been at an active DC before?

 

[Nationalist]

15 hours ago, robosmith said:

Our energy costs are increasing every year to pay for construction of NEW SOURCES and HIGHER DEMAND FOR FUEL.

You are obviously NOT an economist, you just pretend to be one on the interwebz.

And tell me...oh wise one...who's policies began driving the price of fuel up?

[John Stone]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

That makes zero sense whatsoever. 

Give me an example of that happening. Where did they see this occur?

You're not talking about a discount, you're talking about a subsidy where the state pays the data center essentially.  The state isn't going to sell power at a LOSS that would have to be 'made up' by the people in most cases. 

And the commitment and contract from the data center should be able to be leveraged to build more power supply. 

And as i understand it data centers mostly use closed loop water systems now, and it wouldn't impact anyone. 

 

Kind of feels like the concerns are being grossly over exaggerated

 Electric utilities are competing for business by offering discounted rates not available to average consumers - leading to utilities charging more to consumers to fund these energy deals. 

The utilities are in competition with one another for the  business.

[John Stone]

9 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I wouldn't doubt they try to negotiate better rates for bulk usage. I've never seen it though and I doubt your premise concerning taxes.

There are always hardware and OS/network admins on staff at any DC. There's also the contractors who do all the heavy lifting, cable pulling and electrical work.

Have you ever been at an active DC before?

 

 I've seen them in Europe. 

Ghost towns - heavy security. 

....... reminds me of rental storage areas on steroids. 

 

[John Stone]

13 hours ago, paxamericana said:

“Pliers make my job easier, let’s ban them” that’s your laymen response.

agreed.

I know right, if only…

It’s a different eco system. The people that make the chip, design the software to use with data center, and all associated supply chain. It’s not an office building or a factory. That’s the wrong way of looking at it.

............ talk of putting them in space. 😁

Unlimited solar energy - ambient cooling? 😅

Edited May 28 by John Stone

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, John Stone said:

 I've seen them in Europe. 

Ghost towns - heavy security. 

....... reminds me of rental storage areas on steroids. 

 

So no. Well...operating a DC involves a few more staff than you assume.

[John Johnston]

9 minutes ago, John Stone said:

............ talk of putting them in space. 😁

Unlimited solar energy - ambient cooling? 😅

https://www.businessinsider.com/kevin-oleary-utah-data-center-stratos-opposition-water-electricity-jobs-2026-5

[John Stone]

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So no. Well...operating a DC involves a few more staff than you assume.

What is a few?

Payroll? 

 

[John Stone]

32 minutes ago, John Johnston said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/kevin-oleary-utah-data-center-stratos-opposition-water-electricity-jobs-2026-5

"It's understanding the concerns of people, but at the same time, think about the number of jobs," / that guy. 

Gaslighting? 

"Technology is nothing. What's important is that you have a faith in people" / S. Jobs

ya think Steve was including big-tech, government hacks, lobbyists? 

Technology is inevitable, has been forever and will be forever. 

Although I might not agree with communities, I applaud their voices, protests .......... if for no other reason than the political and corrupt hacks hate it.

[John Johnston]

19 minutes ago, John Stone said:

"It's understanding the concerns of people, but at the same time, think about the number of jobs," / that guy. 

Gaslighting? 

"Technology is nothing. What's important is that you have a faith in people" / S. Jobs

ya think Steve was including big-tech, government hacks, lobbyists? 

Technology is inevitable, has been forever and will be forever. 

Although I might not agree with communities, I applaud their voices, protests .......... if for no other reason than the political and corrupt hacks hate it.

Humanity tends to bite off it's nose to spite it's face more times than not. 

[John Johnston]

What are all the uneducated people going to do for work? 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/10/education-decline-low-expectations/684526/

[Nationalist]

55 minutes ago, John Stone said:

What is a few?

Payroll? 

 

Generally a 24/7 crew of about 6 plus daily staff and contractors.

How much? I'd guess and average of about 75K per head.

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, John Stone said:

 Electric utilities are competing for business by offering discounted rates

Discounts are one thing but your claim is that they're actually losing money which they have to make up by charging regular people more. 
 

That sounds like a lie.  So i asked you to provide an example of where this happened. You couldn't. 

Quote

leading to utilities charging more to consumers to fund these energy deals. 

THat has never happened. And again, provide an example if it has. 

Companies do not do deals that LOSE them money. 

Think about what you're claiming. It makes ZERO sense.  If they can get away with charging more money for their services to customers they are going to do that ANYWAY, why in gods name would they only do it because they did a deal with someone else?  "Oh we could easily charge 10 percent more to our customer base but we're not going to because ....  why?"   meanwhile if they get a deal with someone else for bulk purchases they make MORE money, not less. There's nothing to 'make up' by charging more to customers 

Again this has NEVER HAPPENED, and it wouldn't .  You've been misinformed. 

[John Stone]

18 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Discounts are one thing but your claim is that they're actually losing money which they have to make up by charging regular people more. 
 

That sounds like a lie.  So i asked you to provide an example of where this happened. You couldn't. 

THat has never happened. And again, provide an example if it has. 

Companies do not do deals that LOSE them money. 

Think about what you're claiming. It makes ZERO sense.  If they can get away with charging more money for their services to customers they are going to do that ANYWAY, why in gods name would they only do it because they did a deal with someone else?  "Oh we could easily charge 10 percent more to our customer base but we're not going to because ....  why?"   meanwhile if they get a deal with someone else for bulk purchases they make MORE money, not less. There's nothing to 'make up' by charging more to customers 

Again this has NEVER HAPPENED, and it wouldn't .  You've been misinformed. 

 

I'm neutral on this ........ really don't care! 

However, the concerns of communities, real or groomed, are real ........and therefore political 

The facts are moot. 

There are still those that believe Jan 6th never happened, the SS murdered Kennedy, Apollo 11 was a hoax and Jews were behind 9/11 ............. suppose I could that the General of 2020 was rigged. 🤪

When a utility builds infrastructure (delivery) the long-established business model is   to socialize the cost across all users? It includes the cost in the rates that are paid by all. Another example would be residential growth – expansion of utility is distributed across the payers. Because DC consume extraordinarily huge amounts of energy new infrastructure is req’d – the untold millions involved in the cost of construction is again, distributed to the ratepayers.

The other approach when demand for energy explodes without a corresponding increase in utility supply, is for the utility to raise user rates by engaging in so-called market rates, determined by the supply and demand – akin to the oil commodity. 

Data centers do recycle the supply that provides cooling – however, that also involves supply infrastructure – the cost is again distributed.

The concerns of communities are legit – whether that will have any effect on corrupt government is yet to be determined. Data centers are expanding exponentially.

 Would it be more advantageous for a community to lean into a 10 thousand acre solar-farm (robbing Ag) or bear the inevitable cost of an energy hog Data Center. Pick ur poison - but tech rolls on. 

The other concern is that science and by extension technology never stop – international competition is a reality …. and that, by extension becomes a concern re: national security.😨

Another solution might be to build DC in extremely  remote  areas – space, or Alaska ……… or Kanada, Greenland.😁

Edited Friday at 12:30 PM by John Stone