What Kind of Country Is The US Becoming?

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, User said:

Well, if the media actually reported on all the actual people being murdered, killed, raped and harmed by illegal immigrants I doubt people would be that upset at all about actually enforcing the law. 

Yet that’s not what most of the people interned in these prisons prior to deportation seem to be like.  Most of them have families they’ll be leaving behind.   Most of them are praying in their cells.  That’s the problem with Trump’s characterizations of these migrants.  While there certainly are thugs among them, that doesn’t seem to be the majority, and the public is realizing it.  That’s not to say have open borders.  A moderate approach is where it has to land.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, paxamericana said:

So why are you so willing to pay their terrorists toll booth? 

 

Just because a threat isn’t visible, doesn’t mean it’s not there. The reason no one else dare put up a maritime toll booth is because they fear the world police. Making an example of Iran is why you all decided to play nice with one another. The moment America steps back, you get the history wheel turning again. And believe me, American would rather not pay for a world police force but we been spanked twice already before for not doing it. The only way America gets left alone is if we police the dam planet. It’s a generational lesson we’ve learned the hard way more than once. 

Who asked America to go to war on Iran?  Look, Iran is a problem and I hope this gambit ends well.  It could also be another morass. This is one of the main reasons it’s almost always better to work with allies and take a multilateral approach. Going in alone makes you vulnerable. This was understood not long ago.  

[User]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yet that’s not what most of the people interned in these prisons prior to deportation seem to be like.  Most of them have families they’ll be leaving behind.   Most of them are praying in their cells.  That’s the problem with Trump’s characterizations of these migrants.  While there certainly are thugs among them, that doesn’t seem to be the majority, and the public is realizing it.  That’s not to say have open borders.  A moderate approach is where it has to land.

Most of them are not the edge cases you cite, either. 

It doesn't matter; they are here illegally. 

That is what happens with basic law enforcement. You come here illegally, you get deported. You break the immigration laws that allow you to stay temporarily, you get deported. 

Lots of people who rob banks, break into homes, steal from people, carjack, etc., have families. Have lives. 

Don't break the law. 

You are literally saying to have open borders if you are sitting here saying we should not enforce border laws. 

What is this moderate approach you suggest? 

 

[paxamericana]

6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Going in alone makes you vulnerable. This was understood not long ago.

America didn't go in alone. What was not expected is that the usual deadbeat didn’t stay deadbeats they interfered and shut off airspace access. With allies like that who needs enemies.

Edited April 16 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

Likely fair to say that there was little (no) co-ordination with so-called American allies before the War of Choice was made by someone who felt the decision to act, 'in his bones'? 

Akin to his medical deferment to 'serve' was felt in his 'bone spurs'. 🤪

Edited April 16 by John Stone

[Deluge]

17 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

When I see decent people treated this way, and when it tracks with many other stories I’ve heard recently about how harsh and insensitive the US has been towards foreigners and even some of its own citizens, I can’t help wondering if the US really has declined, and I’m saying this as a conservative and long-time visitor to the US. Maybe places like Panama or Costa Rica are where I should be retiring and it’s time to sell the place in Florida.  
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/canadian-detained-at-alligator-alcatraz-for-owing-us12000-in-back-taxes/

Zeitgeist thinks the entire planet should be under one flag. I wonder what that would look like? Something like this? 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, paxamericana said:

America didn't go in alone. What was not expected is that the usual deadbeat didn’t stay deadbeats they interfered and shut off airspace access. With allies like that who needs enemies.

Aw, so much sacrifice to make the world safer and life more affordable. Y’know what, we’re good. You’ve done enough.

 

1 minute ago, Deluge said:

Zeitgeist thinks the entire planet should be under one flag. I wonder what that would look like? Something like this? 

Clearly you haven’t read my posts.  Proof that groundless insults are never a substitute for lack of intellect.  

[Deluge]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Clearly you haven’t read my posts.  Proof that groundless insults are never a substitute for lack of intellect.  

I read your posts and the message is loud and clear: "We're making a new America; now get the f*ck out of the way". 

Edited April 16 by Deluge

[John Stone]

 

 

Trump's tenure features initiatives on economic protectionism, restrictive immigration measures, climate deregulation and arguably the most inexplicable for a  World power, an increasingly isolationist foreign policy. 

Domestically there are clear attempts to centralize power thu attempts to  adjust voting rules and by extension shift the balance between state and federal authority. 

On the global front Trump's policies and rhetoric is doing incalculable damage to alliances and trade relationships - likely generational.   

One thing is certain, while China is working to enlarge it's global footprint, the US is bent on reducing that of the U.S.

The U.S. did not become "Great" thru it's military, it's not the USSR, the U.S. became great thru the industry of it's citizens, the concept of a free society and it's incredible groomed support internationally. 

 

Edited April 16 by John Stone

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, John Stone said:

Likely fair to say that there was little (no) co-ordination with so-called American allies before the War of Choice was made by someone who felt the decision to act, 'in his bones'? 

Akin to his medical deferment to 'serve' was felt in his 'bone spurs'. 🤪

And what debate over it? Letting Iran build up defenses? What’s there to coordinate with a bunch of deadbeats who has nothing useful to offer. Not sure if this was a deliberate provocation to gain local anti Trump support but provocation of America isn’t cost free like you think it is. The Us has the ability to impose tremendous cost on other countries. Not sure if the anti trumper ideot figured that part out.

Edited April 16 by paxamericana

[User]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Aw, so much sacrifice to make the world safer and life more affordable. Y’know what, we’re good. You’ve done enough.

Yes, of course, it is only about you. 

25 minutes ago, John Stone said:

One thing is certain, while China is working to enlarge it's global footprint, the US is bent on reducing that of the U.S.

How is that certain?

The US is has been fully pushing for better relations in South America with countries there, expanding our footprint as well as expanding our foot all over Iran at the moment to which most of the countries there support us doing. 

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Deluge said:

I read your posts and the message is loud and clear: "We're making a new America; now get the f*ck out of the way". 

Why don’t you focus on fixing your country instead of screwing up the rest of the world?  Just another neocon making another mess that will take decades to clean up and cost a fortune.

[User]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why don’t you focus on fixing your country instead of screwing up the rest of the world?  Just another neocon making another mess that will take decades to clean up and cost a fortune.

We can chew gum and walk at the same time. 
 

Trump is fixing the mess folks like you have chosen to ignore and let fester for decades. 
 

 

[Deluge]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why don’t you focus on fixing your country instead of screwing up the rest of the world?  Just another neocon making another mess that will take decades to clean up and cost a fortune.

Talk about the mess. The only real negative I'm seeing is high fuel costs, and you know that's temporary. 

[paxamericana]

53 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Talk about the mess. The only real negative I'm seeing is high fuel costs, and you know that's temporary. 

Also good for the local oil and gas folks down in Texas 

[WestCanMan]

To live in Canada and worry about the state of America's democracy is like being in Iran and speculating about the Swiss gov't's aggression towards Israel. 

[herbie]

21 hours ago, paxamericana said:

still owes the U.S. government approximately $12,000

Good luck collecting it across the border.

[LinkSoul60]

2 hours ago, User said:

Trump is fixing the mess folks like you have chosen to ignore and let fester for decades. 

He should fix it considering he's the one who made the mess...  

There was no imminent threat, and I'd bet my last nickel that if Trump and his buddy weren't compelled to play with their new weapons Iran wouldn't even be a discussion today....because their nuclear capabilities were 'totally and completely obliterated' 8 months ago. 

[Venandi]

5 hours ago, John Stone said:

.....there was little (no) co-ordination with so-called American allies before the War of Choice was made by someone who felt the decision to act, 'in his bones'? 

Still at it I see.

All IMO but... the absence of co-ordination was due to the amount of dithering and telegraphing that would have accompanied it.

Surprise, overwhelming force, and violence of action was paramount here. 

In the absence of US involvement, Israel would most certainly have acted unilaterally.... they had no choice and I'd invite you to consider the ramifications of that.

The entire region would have been destabilized, and far more than it is now, the initial wave of deliberate attacks would have been significantly reduced by virtue of assets available and the conflict would have been prolonged far beyond what ever the endex date ultimately turns out to be.

The disruption in merchant shipping would have been more extreme, more prolonged, and more costly. Had that happened, the current discussion would have been about US failure to act and you would be leading the charge.

This was going to happen in one form or the other and to prevail with your argument you would have to provide a logical estimate of why you feel that having Israel go it alone would have been more beneficial, less costly and of shorter duration.

I don't see how that is even remotely possible.

Please educate me....

Edited April 16 by Venandi

[User]

13 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

He should fix it considering he's the one who made the mess...  

There was no imminent threat, and I'd bet my last nickel that if Trump and his buddy weren't compelled to play with their new weapons Iran wouldn't even be a discussion today....because their nuclear capabilities were 'totally and completely obliterated' 8 months ago. 

Trump was not President for the last several decades, the mess of Iran funding terror proxies around the Middle East and pursuing Nuclear weapons was not his.

Imminent threat isn’t the goal post of any argument I have made and as it was pointed out that Israel was going to strike then yes, Iran did pose a threat.

The fact that Nuclear capabilities were obliterated doesn’t change the fact that Uranium stockpiles were not fully accounted for nor that Iran continued to have those aspirations and were salvaging those sites struck. 

You only have mindless talking points to parrot, nothing of substance here. 

[paxamericana]

35 minutes ago, herbie said:

Good luck collecting it across the border.

Works both ways, good luck ever coming back.

[Venandi]

21 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Works both ways, good luck ever coming back.

Please excuse Herb, he doesn't bother looking stuff up (or even making the attempt) before pulling "The Flaming Monkeys of Misinformation" out of his a$$.

It's a shared trait with Robo and CWO Flybaby:

The Canada–United States Income Tax Convention includes an assistance-in-collection provision: when the U.S. has a “finally determined” tax claim it can request Canada to collect it, and Canada may accept and collect that claim as if it were a Canadian revenue claim (with certain procedural and public-policy limits).

Edited April 16 by Venandi

[herbie]

53 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Works both ways, good luck ever coming back.

Why in hell would he ever want to go back?

[paxamericana]

17 minutes ago, herbie said:

Why in hell would he ever want to go back?

Apparently he was making plenty of American dollar. And since we’re on this topic. Canadians wanting to leave Canada for greener pastures are required to pay up to 500k . Signs of a failed state it sounds like.

53 minutes ago, Venandi said:

The Canada–United States Income Tax Convention includes an assistance-in-collection provision: when the U.S. has a “finally determined” tax claim it can request Canada to collect it, and Canada may accept and collect that claim as if it were a Canadian revenue claim (with certain procedural and public-policy limits).

Double whammy 

Edited April 16 by paxamericana

[LinkSoul60]

2 hours ago, User said:

Trump was not President for the last several decades, the mess of Iran funding terror proxies around the Middle East and pursuing Nuclear weapons was not his.

Imminent threat isn’t the goal post of any argument I have made and as it was pointed out that Israel was going to strike then yes, Iran did pose a threat.

The fact that Nuclear capabilities were obliterated doesn’t change the fact that Uranium stockpiles were not fully accounted for nor that Iran continued to have those aspirations and were salvaging those sites struck. 

You only have mindless talking points to parrot, nothing of substance here. 

Him starting this war isn't a mindless talking point, it's fact.  It's also fact that it's his mess so hopefully he cleans it up soon and before too many economies get beat down any further.

You always remind me how he got reelected...