Nick Berg's Dad on Zarqawi death

[theloniusfleabag]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060608/ap_on_...al_zarqawi_berg

Berg said the blame for most deaths in Iraq should be placed on President Bush, who he said is "more of a terrorist than Zarqawi."

DOVER, Del. - The father of Nicholas Berg, a U.S. contractor believed to have been beheaded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq, said Thursday that al-Zarqawi's killing will only perpetuate the cycle of violence in the Middle East.

"I think al-Zarqawi's death is a double tragedy," Michael Berg told The Associated Press after learning a U.S. airstrike had killed the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq. "His death will incite a new wave of revenge. George Bush and al-Zarqawi are two men who believe in revenge."

What a strange take on the matter.

[Temagami Scourge]

Theo:

I don't see it as a strange take. The man is clearly a man of peace. I wish I was strong enough in my beliefs that I could turn the other cheek. If I was him, I'd be screaming for revenge, but he sees it as yet another unnecessary loss in an unnecessary war. I get the same impression from Capt. Goddard's dad.

[Riverwind]

"His death will incite a new wave of revenge. George Bush and al-Zarqawi are two men who believe in revenge."

What a strange take on the matter.

I heard an long interview with this guy on CBC radio last night. His comments are taken out of context. He is a person who has decided that the world's constant obession wth revenge is the source of all evil. He personally has forgiven al-Zarqawi for killing his son because he believes that responding with anger or hatred would make him no better than the man who killed his son. He takes pacifism to an extreme that I have not seen before, however, he does sound sincere.

[Johnny Utah]

Michael Berg is the male version of Cindy Sheehan..

[Shady]

I don't understand how this can be described as a "revenge" killing. Zarqawi was a terrorist, conducting terrorist activities in Iraq. He wasn't going to stop unless killed or captured. He was killed. It wasn't out of revenge, it was out of necessity.

[crazymf]

Shady, you nailed it. It's not revenge at all for Nick Berg or anyone else. It's to save all the people he hasn't got around to killing yet.

The USA dropped a bomb on the guy to save any servicemen from getting killed having to take him by force. If this wasn't done, I can just imagine how long his trial would have lasted and what a gong show it would have been. This guy was an unredeemable bad guy.

Sorry Mr Berg, I saw the vid and personally I'll stand on Bushes side of the room all day on this one. I'd settle for revenge myself, but that's just me.

[August1991]

What a strange take on the matter.

I agree with Utah above. He's the male version of Cindy Sheehan. I think it is impossible to understand the grief of a parent who loses a child. Their comments or actions, like the comment of Nichola Goddard's father at her funeral, must be seen in this context.

It is unfortunate that these otherwise ordinary people must deal with a personal loss in such a public way.

[Black Dog]

I don't understand how this can be described as a "revenge" killing. Zarqawi was a terrorist, conducting terrorist activities in Iraq. He wasn't going to stop unless killed or captured. He was killed. It wasn't out of revenge, it was out of necessity.

Berg wasn't describing Zarqawi's death as a revenge killing, but was saying it will prompt revenge killings. The reference to Bush and Zarqawi both believing in revenge, IMO, is a somewhat oblique reference to the Iraq War itself (which some belive was undertaken as revenge for 9-11).

[theloniusfleabag]

I'll have to agree with Shady and crazymf,

This guy was an unredeemable bad guy.

and

He wasn't going to stop unless killed or captured. He was killed. It wasn't out of revenge, it was out of necessity.

Not much different than a serial killer, just fueled differently. If Micheal Berg chose to forgive him, so be it, he is a more generous man than I.

Zarqawi chose to spread death, not life or knowledge. The world needs less like him.

August1991,

I think it is impossible to understand the grief of a parent who loses a child. Their comments or actions, like the comment of Nichola Goddard's father at her funeral, must be seen in this context.

I don't believe you can simply write off their comments as being motivated by the 'madness of grief'. That would be akin to saying "They don't mean it, they have just gone crazy for a bit. Give them time, and they will come around to thinking like I do".

It is unfortunate that these otherwise ordinary people must deal with a personal loss in such a public way

Unfortunate? Hey, it sells papers, so it must be 'good'.

[August1991]

Berg wasn't describing Zarqawi's death as a revenge killing, but was saying it will prompt revenge killings. The reference to Bush and Zarqawi both believing in revenge, IMO, is a somewhat oblique reference to the Iraq War itself (which some belive was undertaken as revenge for 9-11).

That's my reading of the comments too. He's saying that the killing must stop somewhere.

I don't believe you can simply write off their comments as being motivated by the 'madness of grief'. That would be akin to saying "They don't mean it, they have just gone crazy for a bit. Give them time, and they will come around to thinking like I do".

I'm not saying that given time, they'll come around to my viewpoint. I'm merely saying that I think they are trying to deal with a horrific event in their personal lives. Different people cope differently.

Unfortunate? Hey, it sells papers, so it must be 'good'.

Huh? Is this a 'money is the root of all evil' type argument?

[killjoy]

What a strange take on the matter.

All the power to him.

I'm guessing he didn't watch the video. Amazing how long you can stay alive while someone is cutting your head off with a butcher knife. Hogtied with three guys on him. Reminds me of the farm. Silence of the lambs, so-to-speak.

Revenge. Someone hits you and you don't hit back because you're afraid he'll hit you again. Trust me, he'll hit you again anyways. Revenge isn't the same as open conflict.

How were those kids in Toronto "hit"? What inspired their 'revenge'? Before you rush to answer think about how many people are out there being truly wronged by someone or something, who are truly upset with the 'system' and how many of them aren't ever going to blow something or someone up over it. When was the last time the Natives blew something up?

It's one thing to have grievances. It's another to kill indiscriminately over it.

.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear killjoy,

It's one thing to have grievances. It's another to kill indiscriminately over it.

Excellent line. Exemplary, in fact.

[newbie]

Theo:

I don't see it as a strange take. The man is clearly a man of peace. I wish I was strong enough in my beliefs that I could turn the other cheek. If I was him, I'd be screaming for revenge, but he sees it as yet another unnecessary loss in an unnecessary war. I get the same impression from Capt. Goddard's dad.

I wish more people on this forum could accept that instead of taking the low road and bashing Berg and Goddard.

[BubberMiley]

Some people who apparently watch too much FoxNews don't know how to present an argument without some form of character assassination.

[GostHacked]

So this means they can now put the focus back on Bin Laden? Why the hell are we even going 'back' to him? He should have been taken out in the first place.

[Black Dog]

I'm guessing he didn't watch the video. Amazing how long you can stay alive while someone is cutting your head off with a butcher knife. Hogtied with three guys on him. Reminds me of the farm. Silence of the lambs, so-to-speak.

You mean the video where someone cut the head off Berg's corpse?

[killjoy]

If you say so.

.

[Darth Buddha]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060608/ap_on_...al_zarqawi_berg

Berg said the blame for most deaths in Iraq should be placed on President Bush, who he said is "more of a terrorist than Zarqawi."

DOVER, Del. - The father of Nicholas Berg, a U.S. contractor believed to have been beheaded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq, said Thursday that al-Zarqawi's killing will only perpetuate the cycle of violence in the Middle East.

"I think al-Zarqawi's death is a double tragedy," Michael Berg told The Associated Press after learning a U.S. airstrike had killed the leader of al-Qaida in Iraq. "His death will incite a new wave of revenge. George Bush and al-Zarqawi are two men who believe in revenge."What a strange take on the matter.

Really?

George Bush wanted to "finish business" in Iraq before 9/11 according to many reputable sources. Including writers allowed in or formerly from the administration.

Neocon thinkers like Pearle had already written that an excuse was necessary for the U.S. to pursue a clearly imperial "regime change." in Iraq. Much like "Mein Kampf," people should have taken these Bush affiliates at their word. I know I sure did.

There was no Al-Qauda in Iraq before Bush invaded Iraq under false pretenses.

Seems to me that Bush is as vengeful, as internationally ambitious, and as responsible for the current state of affairs in Iraq as Zarcawi was. Bush spawned Zarcawi in a very real sense.

What I find strange is that so many fail to even consider these facts.

I heard an long interview with this guy on CBC radio last night. His comments are taken out of context. He is a person who has decided that the world's constant obession wth revenge is the source of all evil. He personally has forgiven al-Zarqawi for killing his son because he believes that responding with anger or hatred would make him no better than the man who killed his son. He takes pacifism to an extreme that I have not seen before, however, he does sound sincere.

How refreshing: a man of principle rather than just lip service. I can see how he would blame anyone who is responsible for starting hostilities as a guilty party. In this case, while not a pacifist, I must agree with him to a point, but there were plenty of pragmatic reasons to hunt down Zarcawi.

Michael Berg is the male version of Cindy Sheehan..

Nice one sentence smear. No facts, no thought, no analysis. Why are so many neocons of that ilk? Could it be the inability to think for themselves? Is THAT why they need talk radio so much, to get their marching orders?

I agree with Utah above. He's the male version of Cindy Sheehan. I think it is impossible to understand the grief of a parent who loses a child. Their comments or actions, like the comment of Nichola Goddard's father at her funeral, must be seen in this context.

It is unfortunate that these otherwise ordinary people must deal with a personal loss in such a public way.

It's a pity you can't recognize a coherent argument supported by legitimate facts, though not the only valid argument, to be sure.

One must suspect that "Johnny Utah" is the male equivalent of Ann Coulter, no? Shady has some thought evident, so I guess he'd have to be in the realm of Rush Limbaugh, or maybe somebody even more thoughtful, well above Limbaugh, but well below George F. Will, perhaps?

I don't understand how this can be described as a "revenge" killing. Zarqawi was a terrorist, conducting terrorist activities in Iraq. He wasn't going to stop unless killed or captured. He was killed. It wasn't out of revenge, it was out of necessity.

Bush created the conflict that he carried his revenge killings under, motivated by vengeful feelings toward Saddam to the point of lying about cassus belli. Zarcawi's death won't have any effect unless and until we are able to deliver stability and respect to the Iraqis sufficient to win their hearts. I'm relieved he's dead, personally, but I see it as just another tit for tat in a war that the U.S. is not commited enough to win quickly and convincingly.

Winning the Iraqi's hearts by providing security and without the obscene "collateral damage" that U.S. military planners seem perfectly willing to inflice would, in fact, have made Zarcawi into a joke even had he not been killed. Security and respect will win the day, not targetted assasinations no matter how "just" they may be. I do see reasons beyond mere revenge in this case. Zarcawi had to be eliminated for pragmatic security and political reasons in terms of defending Iraq. Not all violence is unjust: I wouldn't agree with Mr. Berg, for instance, in D-Day or other WWII actions by the allies either.

I'd settle for revenge myself, but that's just me.

Then truly, you belong with Mr. Bush: an infantile leader who is motivated by his "gut" rather than knowledge and the good of the nation he leads into expensive and prolonged conflict under falsified justification.

If you are willing to allow revenge to shape U.S. policy, I hope you are in the armed forces where you can put your "guts" and the rest of your body where your mouth is. Otherwise, I think being willing to put our boys at risk for "revenge" is asinine if not obscene. Now that we're there and we've created Zarcawi, we did owe the Iraqi's his capture or death. But that's a matter of policy and problem solving.

Not some childish policy motivated by revenge by people too weak in the head to separate their passions from their rational mind.

Theo:

I don't see it as a strange take. The man is clearly a man of peace. I wish I was strong enough in my beliefs that I could turn the other cheek. If I was him, I'd be screaming for revenge, but he sees it as yet another unnecessary loss in an unnecessary war. I get the same impression from Capt. Goddard's dad.

I wish more people on this forum could accept that instead of taking the low road and bashing Berg and Goddard.

Some people who apparently watch too much FoxNews don't know how to present an argument without some form of character assassination.

Yep, FOX News, information for the faily unbalanced. I suspect minds like that couldn't get through a balanced op ed page if their lives depended on it.

But hey, typical tactics of political extremists: when you can't argue with the man's rationale, just badmouth him. It's the leading neocon approach to politics: devoid of individual thought. It's not necessarily a waste. Those who feel the need to badmouth the man tell me all I need to know about THEM: people I am ashamed to call 'fellow Americans' as they more closely resemble American fascists in temperment and 'reason'.

We really screwed up when we eliminated poll testing: it might filter out the extreme leftists and the neocon bozos who can't separate fallacy from logical conclusion even when it's coloring book simple. Maybe formal logic needs to be taught on the high school level. At least those who really can't would be kept down by denying them a high school diploma.

Of course, that would leave a lot of neocons who can think but find it easier to let others think for them still out there. At least there is some hope for such folks: I think a great many have rethought their position on the Gulf War.