Carney Took The Bait

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Exactly as promised...don't you like politicians who do what they say during the campaign ?

Preferably when it makes sense and there a little more disclosure. When did he campaign on Canada becoming a 51st state or annexing Greenland?

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

So far Carney is doing exactly what Trump wants him to do re: defence spending and border security spending.

Yup.  The border spending was an unnecessary waste of money.  The military spending had to increase, but clearly that’s going to go out of control too.  Even the housing program should be downsized given the sudden drop in home prices and rising supply.  The federal government is a slow moving ship.  At this rate we’re on collision course with a debt crisis.  So much for US exports to Canada. Happy, Trump?

Edited November 6, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Preferably when it makes sense and there a little more disclosure. When did he campaign on Canada becoming a 51st state or annexing Greenland?

 

Greenland > 2019

Canada & Panama > 2024 (post election)

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Greenland > 2019

Canada & Panama > 2024 (post election)

And when's he going to keep these promises?

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

And when's he going to keep these promises?

 

Tariffs were a threat & promise (delivered)...annexation/purchases were policy proposals.  The last annexations were Mariana, Caroline, and Marshall Islands in 1947 during the Truman administration.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Tariffs were a threat & promise (delivered)...

Trump did not threaten to make America poorer with tariffs, he promised the exact opposite - tariffs will make us rich he said.

Inflation is up and so are tempers at the cost of living.

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

...annexation/purchases were policy proposals.  The last annexations were Mariana, Caroline, and Marshall Islands in 1947 during the Truman administration.

It wasn't a bunker you emerged from it was a time capsule!

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Trump did not threaten to make America poorer with tariffs, he promised the exact opposite - tariffs will make us rich he said.

So far is delivering. Second and third quarter results show the economy is moving upwards faster than inflation.

While in Canada

Most Canadians see inflation eating away at income gains: StatCan

 

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Trump did not threaten to make America poorer with tariffs, he promised the exact opposite - tariffs will make us rich he said.

Inflation is up and so are tempers at the cost of living.

 

Yes he did....promised pain before improvement.  More investment stateside than in Canada.   Crown Royal moving production to the USA...oh my !

Quote

It wasn't a bunker you emerged from it was a time capsule!

 

History is your friend....Trump hasn't done a single original presidential thing.

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So far is delivering. Second and third quarter results show the economy is moving upwards faster than inflation.

And no one, least of all you has a clue how the US economy is doing this last quarter without official data.

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

While in Canada

Most Canadians see inflation eating away at income gains: StatCan

Canadians know full well that's almost entirely a result of Trump's trade wars. They know there's also wars, climate change, pandemic effects and the usual mish mash of reasons.

Imagine how much poorer we'd be if we'd been paying tariffs on top of that. It should be no surprise our inflation rate is lower.

Its certainly no surprise that makes you sad.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trump hasn't done a single original presidential thing.

Trump hasn't done anything Presidential.

He took a dump on America.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Trump hasn't done anything Presidential.

He took a dump on America.

 

America asked him to do so....did Canada ask Carney to clean up Trudeau's dump ?

[August1991]

On 11/4/2025 at 4:37 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is going to spend far beyond its means in part to meet a completely unnecessary defence spending bill of 5% of GDP.

...

5% ? Foolish, wrong.

====

Canada does not need nuclear submarines.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

And no one, least of all you has a clue how the US economy is doing this last quarter without official data.

There is official data and yes, lots of people know how to use economy is doing

Why are you always so eager to look like a twat? This isn't controversial,. It's like you're so buthurt by the result that you're crying and filling your diapers rather than simply coping with what is going on around you.

Trump had two good quarters. Why are you soiling your pants over this? How obsessed are you that is simple fact like that somehow turns you into some quivering jellyfish

Get over it grows behind you twat

[Zeitgeist]

Well most tariffs only kicked in midsummer and much growth was driven early on by companies buying supplies ahead of the tariffs.  We’ll have a better picture of the impact of tariffs in the data for the second half of 2025.

We will see many losers because many companies are absorbing the costs of tariffs to keep prices competitive.  Many large manufacturers in the U.S. are screaming about the rise in input costs, including all major automakers.  Trump essentially increased the price of aluminum by 50% without providing a U.S. produced alternative.  He also essentially screwed over any U.S. companies with foreign resource holdings, no matter how profitable it was for these companies to set up in other countries.  Essentially Trump is scrapping US international business expansion.  It’s fascinating to watch the justifications given by trade personnel who are clearly out of their depth, and virtually all the economists know it.  

Edited November 6, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

... Essentially Trump is scrapping US international business expansion.  It’s fascinating to watch the justifications given by trade personnel who are clearly out of their depth, and virtually all the economists know it.  

 

Yep...Trump (like many other Canadians & Americans) has seen what international business expansion has wrought since the 1990's.    Ross Perot called it a "sucking sound" across the border.

The economists don't have to live with the consequences so much.

Edited November 6, 2025 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yep...Trump (like many other Canadians & Americans) has seen what international business expansion has wrought since the 1990's.    Ross Perot called it a "sucking sound" across the border.

The economists don't have to live with the consequences so much.

Again, the whole tariff war is based on half-truths and incomplete assumptions, ignoring the impacts of technology and the realities of modern civilization. Somehow everyone is expected to ignore all of this.  It’s just too dubious and reckless.  If he wasn’t changing course all the time, reacting based on flattery or ego sensitivity, and if the tariffs were less radically large, I think there would be more buy in, especially if there was better rationale presented. “Just trust me”only carries you so far.

Edited November 6, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Again, the whole tariff war is based on half-truths and incomplete assumptions, ignoring the impacts of technology and the realities of modern civilization. Somehow everyone is expected to ignore all of this.  It’s just too dubious and reckless.  If he wasn’t changing course all the time, reacting based on flattery or ego sensitivity, and if the tariffs were less radically large, I think there would be more buy in, especially if there was better rationale presented.

 

I don't think any of that matters to him...from the 'git go Trump has purposely and decidedly aimed to destroy the status quo in search of a new normal for trade, agreements, and related policies (e.g. immigration, most favoured nation status, military readiness, etc.)

It is very reckless to those who want to cling to existing frameworks and "rules based order", even if those rules are no longer viable in present form.   Canada understandably has to try and preserve existing foundations because it has no other options in the near term.

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, eyeball said:

And no one, least of all you has a clue how the US economy is doing this last quarter without official data.

Canadians know full well that's almost entirely a result of Trump's trade wars. They know there's also wars, climate change, pandemic effects and the usual mish mash of reasons.

Imagine how much poorer we'd be if we'd been paying tariffs on top of that. It should be no surprise our inflation rate is lower.

Its certainly no surprise that makes you sad.

Hilarious. 

The tariffs are...or should be...a rather minor annoyance. Canada is a veritable gold mine that we waste with insane regulations and dumb policy.

Just a minute of simple analysis clearly shows what has hand-cuffed our prosperity.

But no...it's all Trump's fault.

I suppose stupid people have a right to their stupid opinions...but they should not be given power over anything.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

But no...it's all Trump's fault.

Almost all our inflation this year certainly is yes but in true right wing reactionary form you're inflating what I said so it encompasses as many grievances as possible. We're all gonna dieeee!

LMAO!

I'm surprised you didn't toss Hunter's laptop and Steele's dossier in there as well.

 

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I don't think any of that matters to him...from the 'git go Trump has purposely and decidedly aimed to destroy the status quo in search of a new normal for trade, agreements, and related policies (e.g. immigration, most favoured nation status, military readiness, etc.)

It is very reckless to those who want to cling to existing frameworks and "rules based order", even if those rules are no longer viable in present form.   Canada understandably has to try and preserve existing foundations because it has no other options in the near term.

In the near term, I don’t think America does either.  You can’t just throw 50% taxes on thousands of businesses for critical elements of the supply chains in the U.S. and put a happy face on it.  You can try, but most people have something called a brain that might make them ask whether this is a good idea.

Of course America and even little old Canada can push through all of this, but that doesn’t make it good for either country.  

Edited November 6, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Of course America and even little old Canada can push through all of this, but that doesn’t make it good for either country.  

 

One could say the same thing about the previous status quo...not good for either country as well.  Something had to change, and Trump is what we called a "change agent" back in the 80's.   Carney understands the game economically, but he can't handle the political brinkmanship...we saw this during his role in the UK's Brexit too.

[Zeitgeist]

39 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

One could say the same thing about the previous status quo...not good for either country as well.  Something had to change, and Trump is what we called a "change agent" back in the 80's.   Carney understands the game economically, but he can't handle the political brinkmanship...we saw this during his role in the UK's Brexit too.

Yes they’re very different personalities. Carney is very careful, but he’s also very tuned into people and personalities.  He seems able to get his point across without making people lose face.  He and Trump are polite and humorous with each other, which is actually worth a lot.  Trump is a disrupter, which can be valuable if there’s a strong likelihood of a better way to do things, but that new way isn’t articulated.

Personally I think most of these leaders are bringing old solutions to new problems.  The biggest challenge for governments is going to be finding ways to collect enough revenue to maintain a decently sized middle class that may be largely unemployable due to technology.

Automation and A.I. can do most of our work, but if the profits only accrue to a small minority, that’s the end of the American Dream.  In a significant way, the common people will have to become the shareholders.  Putting millions of people on UBI is costly and a poor substitute for a good job.  All Western countries have to face this new reality.  Fighting each other for what’s left of a shrinking demographic and tax base only gets you so far. Tariffs are added costs. They’re a form of taxation. If governments are in the business of redistributing this additional tax collection, we’re in fact moving closer to socialism, but only at the national level.  Hmm, social and national reminds me of something, and no, Trump is not Hitler.  

Edited November 6, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Putting millions of people on UBI is costly and a poor substitute for a good job.

Sounds like a great substitute for the crappy jobs.

Insist on maintaining a socio-economic moral imperative to produce or die while AI is throwing millions out of work will cause a war.

Avoiding that should be the main argument for a UBI.

[CdnFox]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sounds like a great substitute for the crappy jobs.

Insist on maintaining a socio-economic moral imperative to produce or die while AI is throwing millions out of work will cause a war.

Avoiding that should be the main argument for a UBI.

Literally none of that is true which is something it shares with pretty much every other so-called argument for ubi.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes they’re very different personalities. Carney is very careful, but he’s also very tuned into people and personalities.  He seems able to get his point across without making people lose face.  He and Trump are polite and humorous with each other, which is actually worth a lot.  Trump is a disrupter, which can be valuable if there’s a strong likelihood of a better way to do things, but that new way isn’t articulated.

 

I watched Carney during Brexit, which he opposed for sound economic reasons.  But he failed to understand the driving force(s) behind Brexit, and most certainly was not on board with such a drastic change.    Trump means drastic change, and Carney is too cautious to embrace it.

 

Quote

Personally I think most of these leaders are bringing old solutions to new problems.  The biggest challenge for governments is going to be finding ways to collect enough revenue to maintain a decently sized middle class that may be largely unemployable due to technology.

 

True, many of the solutions (and problems) stem from a post WW2 framework that no longer applies in many cases...the EU's size and strong China didn't exist back then.   Canada's Liberal party likes to talk about a "rules based order" that ignores many changes to the landscape of old.   Canada has to compete just like other nations, without so much reliance on the American market and capital investment.

 

Quote

... All Western countries have to face this new reality.  Fighting each other for what’s left of a shrinking demographic and tax base only gets you so far. Tariffs are added costs. They’re a form of taxation. If governments are in the business of redistributing this additional tax collection, we’re in fact moving closer to socialism, but only at the national level.  Hmm, social and national reminds me of something, and no, Trump is not Hitler.  

 

Globalization, unfettered immigration, military budgets, and social programs are all part of the same burden on taxpayers; tariffs are just another version on the front end like other consumption taxes.    Canadians accept all kinds of local, provincial, and federal taxes, but bristle at the word "tariff" ?   Ditto the EU (where VAT varies from 17% to 27%).    Tariffs have been around for a long time, and are not going away.   So Carney can just wait Trump out...or cut a deal.