Orangey and The Brainworm Strike Again

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 minutes ago, Legato said:

Then why the large increase in autism cases, could it be climate change?

Any older person should suspect part of the answer. How often did one hear about autism in the Seventies? It just wasn’t talked about as much and many people with the disorder were lumped into other categories. Paediatricians are looking for autism now far  more aggressively than they used to because early intervention can be so helpful. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Why does everything here have to be discussed in a hysterically partisan way? This is public health for crying out loud. 

You're the one being partisan. Common sense says if there is a credible reason to believe that there may be a potential problem with something that we don't have to do then you don't do it. Research continues and you can make a final decision then but recommending to avoid this activity just makes sense.

But you don't want to accept that and the only reason is that it's trump. It makes no sense not to treat the threat seriously

[SpankyMcFarland]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You're the one being partisan. Common sense says if there is a credible reason to believe that there may be a potential problem with something that we don't have to do then you don't do it. Research continues and you can make a final decision then but recommending to avoid this activity just makes sense.

But you don't want to accept that and the only reason is that it's trump. It makes no sense not to treat the threat seriously

I think about that man as little as possible. If large, well run studies show an increased risk of autism after acetaminophen use within families. I may change my opinion. 

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I think about that man as little as possible. If large, well run studies show an increased risk of autism after acetaminophen use within families. I may change my opinion. 

Fortunately you're partisan hackery isn't part of the decision making process. And let's be honest you're not going to change your mind unless a democrat suggests it.

[paxamericana]

27 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Sure but there are risks to no treatment of fever as well. 

Agreed, it’s a a calculated risk. Hence making the best choice with the incomplete data such as it is. But erring on the side of caution, it’s best to avoid medication when possible. Not to be abused at every minor headache and cold when pregnant. Even the medication label warn to be used as directed and at limits to quantities. 

[robosmith]

1 hour ago, paxamericana said:

It's not unfounded. We are not meant to abuse medication, especially when pregnant. Taking synthetic NSAID does not mean there are zero side affects. It's best to avoid taking such medication when pregnant as the fetus is highly susceptible to drug induced toxicology. While individuals reaction and tollerance vary, it is still best to avoid using any drugs unless absolutely necesarry for life saving reason. 

Do you know what happens to fetus and mother with a high temperature? It can be deadly for BOTH.

And the only alternative in that case is much more dangerous than acetaminophen.

A friend's wife had preeclampsia and spent months in the hospital to save her and her baby's life.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Agreed, it’s a a calculated risk. Hence making the best choice with the incomplete data such as it is. But erring on the side of caution, it’s best to avoid medication when possible. Not to be abused at every minor headache and cold when pregnant. Even the medication label warn to be used as directed and at limits to quantities. 

And there are other ways to treat fevers.

If there was a circumstance where there simply was no other acceptable drug then that would be different, and they are saying that the people should minimize you it's not eliminate it all together.

But for most things there are other products which will work to resolve the issue that don't have a Acetaminophen.

So why wouldn't you issue a directive to the effect of minimize the use of Tylenol wherever possible and use something else where possible?

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

Do you know what happens to fetus and mother with a high temperature? It can be deadly for BOTH.

And the only alternative in that case is much more dangerous than acetaminophen.

A friend's wife had preeclampsia and spent months in the hospital to save her and her baby's life.

There's plenty of other ways to treat a fever for god's sake Robo Smith. 

Ibuprohine, aspirin, the nsaid family of drugs,  there's no reason to use tylenol to treat fever.  And if there is in some weird specific case then fine, go for it, but keep it to a minimum.  Nobody's banning the stuff.

You're making yourself look stupid again, 

[paxamericana]

4 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Do you know what happens to fetus and mother with a high temperature? It can be deadly for BOTH.

And the only alternative in that case is much more dangerous than acetaminophen.

A friend's wife had preeclampsia and spent months in the hospital to save her and her baby's life.

Fever is a symptom not the cause. Usually a response to infection. The underlying cause should be treated. And yes at a certain temperature threshold it can be dangerous for mother and fetus. That is called a medical emergency and not an inconvenience. The problem with over the counter drugs is abuse. Proper risk messaging by orange man was long over due.

[gatomontes99]

2 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said:

You can easily find many other medical expert opinions on this which I'm guessing you have, but obviously will disregard because of your loyalty to Trump.  Why are you saying I'm in 'full blown meltdown'?  Far from it...  Trump is a source of laughs and entertainment for me in trying to understand how anyone in that position can literally be that stupid.  Otherwise, it's you and your country that has to live with him so enjoy that ride....

You have to resort to name calling to appear to be authoritative. That sounds like a melt down to me. 

[gatomontes99]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Meta reviews are tricky to interpret. They combine a jumble of studies with markedly different criteria and put them, the good with the not so good, through a sausage machine of statistical analysis. 

Read the study. They separated out the processes and rated them by how robust the studies were. They came up with a relationship to Tylenol with autism and ADHD. But they aren't saying Tylenol caused it. Just that it is associated with it. Trump probably went a little far in saying it was a cause. It might be. It might not be. It might be that people take it for symptoms that are associated with pregnancies that result in ADHD or autism. 

The main point here, is that it is a possible cause and women should be aware and weigh their decisions along woth the guidance of their doctor. 

[User]

19 minutes ago, robosmith said:

A friend's wife had preeclampsia and spent months in the hospital to save her and her baby's life.

These clowns will sit here arguing about the "baby's life" when it comes to spite against Trump administration on this and then tomorrow will be saying that "baby's life" is nothing more than a clump of cells and if the mother doesn't want it good riddance and abort it. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

48 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Fortunately your partisan hackery isn't part of the decision making process. And let's be honest you're not going to change your mind unless a democrat suggests it.

Ironically, that’s a rather woke way to approach things. My intent apparently matters more than the facts I present.

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

Read the study. They separated out the processes and rated them by how robust the studies were. They came up with a relationship to Tylenol with autism and ADHD. But they aren't saying Tylenol caused it. Just that it is associated with it. Trump probably went a little far in saying it was a cause. It might be. It might not be. It might be that people take it for symptoms that are associated with pregnancies that result in ADHD or autism. 

The main point here, is that it is a possible cause and women should be aware and weigh their decisions along woth the guidance of their doctor. 

I will read it. One of the best types of study for any drug is the double blind controlled trial where patients are assigned randomly and unknowingly (to both patients and researchers) to drug and placebo groups. By this means the groups are hopefully the same and any difference in effect has a higher chance of being due to the drug itself. Obviously, any doctor carrying through such a study on pregnant women would be facing the possibility of a criminal trial so less satisfactory means have to be used. The problem is how to isolate the effect of the drug from other factors given that the two groups may be significantly different. So far most of the people I respect in the field are not convinced by the evidence here.

Edited September 24, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[gatomontes99]

3 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I will read it. One of the best types of study for any drug is the double blind controlled trial where patients are assigned randomly and unknowingly to drug and placebo groups. By this means the groups are hopefully the same and any difference in effect has a higher chance of being due to the drug itself. Obviously, any doctor carry through such a study on pregnant women would be facing the possibility of a criminal trial so less satisfactory means have to be used. The problem is how to isolate the effect of the drug from other factors. So far most of the people I respect in the field are not convinced by the evidence here.

Do you think you can get women to take some random drug to see if it will or will not harm their unborn child? 

[LinkSoul60]

39 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

You have to resort to name calling to appear to be authoritative. That sounds like a melt down to me. 

Call it that if that if you choose. I'm good with it.  The opinion probably aligns with ~90% of Western civilization.

[gatomontes99]

2 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said:

Call it that if that if you choose. I'm good with it.  The opinion probably aligns with ~90% of Western civilization.

And now you are over inflating your support to seem authoritative. Why not just accept that Harvard showed a small chance of a link and that it is ok to share that information with pregnant women? It isn't like Tylenol is banned or even not recommended to be used. 

[LinkSoul60]

8 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

And now you are over inflating your support to seem authoritative. Why not just accept that Harvard showed a small chance of a link and that it is ok to share that information with pregnant women? It isn't like Tylenol is banned or even not recommended to be used. 

Why.... because like I replied 'may' and 'more research' is not definitive. You can understand that, can't you?   You cite one article.  Now answer why you don't accept the opinions of most every other medical agency commenting on this?

You obviously fail to see what harm could potentially come from words of a politician;

“If you don’t take Tylenol when you have a fever, especially in the first trimester, we know that can be detrimental to the fetus,” Gyamfi-Bannerman said.  

“Suggestions that acetaminophen use in pregnancy causes autism are not only highly concerning to clinicians but also irresponsible when considering the harmful and confusing message they send to pregnant patients, including those who may need to rely on this beneficial medicine during pregnancy,” a statement from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists said.

Other opinions;

The claims from Trump and his health secretary were also widely condemned by medical experts and regulators around the world.

The British health regulator MHRA said on Monday there remains no evidence linking the use of paracetamol during pregnancy with autism and that it continues to recommend it for pain relief. That view was also backed by Australia’s Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), which re-confirmed on Tuesday that the drug is safe for use in pregnancy.

A statement from the Society for Maternal-Fetal Medicine said: “A thorough review of existing research suggesting a potential link between acetaminophen use during pregnancy and an increased risk of autism and attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in children has not established a causal relationship.”

Tylenol posted on Instagram an acknowledgment that followers “may have questions about conflicting information” in recent media coverage.

“What we can tell you is: credible, independent scientific data continues to show no proven link between taking acetaminophen and autism. Medical and public organizations agree,” reads the video.

“If you are pregnant right now and considering whether Tylenol is safe in pregnancy, I want you to know that the best available science does not show an association between Tylenol use in pregnancy and an increased risk of autism,” said pediatrician Edith Bracho-Sanchez in a Facebook video.

Dr Monique Botha, an associate professor in social and developmental psychology at Durham University, was one of a number of international medical experts to state that they were “exceptionally confident” no relationship exists.

“There are many studies which refute a link, but the most important was a Swedish study of 2.4 million births published in 2024 which used actual sibling data and found no relationship between exposure to paracetamol in utero and subsequent autism, ADHD or intellectual disability.

 

You can easily find all these and many more, but guessing you won't and will just go with the narrative....

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, gatomontes99 said:

Do you think you can get women to take some random drug to see if it will or will not harm their unborn child? 

No, I don’t. That is the point I am making there. For obvious ethical and legal reasons, clinical trials of that sort would be all but impossible with pregnant women which means we have to look at less satisfactory, indirect evidence to find groups with and without the drug that resemble each other. Sibling studies are one way to do that. They naturally reduce the variation between patients. In the big Swedish study, siblings potentially exposed to acetaminophen showed no difference in autism rates compared to those who did not. 

Edited September 24, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[Legato]

6 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

No, I don’t. That is the point I am making there. Clinical trials of that sort would be all but impossible with pregnant women which means we have to look at less satisfactory, indirect evidence to find groups with and without the drug that resemble each other.  Sibling studies are one way to do that. They naturally reduce the variation between patients. 

Well, that approach was a complete failure with thalidomide. Medical mistakes ought not be repeated.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Ironically, that’s a rather woke way to approach things. My intent apparently matters more than the facts I present.

There's nothing woke about it it's just practical.

You haven't presented any facts that are relevant, your opinion is all you presented. Nothing you've presented actually refutes what they found, all it says is someone looked at it in a different way and didn't find anything.  That doesn't make them wrong, so how is it relevant?

In your own phrases betray you. If there's a major study that proves that it's a problem then you "MIGHT" Change your mind. The issue is you don't want to change your mind so the evidence has to be absolutely overwhelming for you to even consider it

And I noticed you couldn't answer the question I asked about what you would say to the mother whose children suffered unnecessarily if it does turn out to be true.

It's wrong not to take appropriate action where you can just because you don't like trump

[CouchPotato]

Pregnant liberals film themselves downing Tylenol to spite Trump despite autism warning

Quote

Pregnant women are filming themselves taking Tylenol in defiance against Donald Trump's shaky claim the painkiller causes autism in children. 

The president announced that doctors in the US will begin advising expectant mothers against taking the drug because of an apparent link. 

Trump, 79, claimed that taking Tylenol 'is no good', adding that pregnant women should 'fight like hell' to avoid taking it, except for in cases of extreme fever. 

Several moms have gone viral on TikTok for posting videos of themselves taking Tylenol in protest.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15126539/pregnant-liberal-moms-taking-tylenol-tiktok-donald-trump.html

 

Haha, take that, Orange Fuhrer!!

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, Legato said:

Well, that approach was a complete failure with thalidomide. Medical mistakes ought not be repeated.

Exactly. Which is why I am not advocating it. Other methods have to be used. 

[LinkSoul60]

58 minutes ago, CouchPotato said:

Pregnant liberals film themselves downing Tylenol to spite Trump despite autism warning

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15126539/pregnant-liberal-moms-taking-tylenol-tiktok-donald-trump.html

 

Haha, take that, Orange Fuhrer!!

 

There was probably people drinking bleach during covid too. Fools everywhere...

[Nationalist]

On 9/23/2025 at 5:48 AM, herbie said:

I'm sure our resident theologist can find some links in the Old Testament 😉

Im sure if Orangemanbad said 'It could be bad for your health to walk in front of speeding busses'...you'd go out and walk in front of a speeding bus.

You are truly an id1ot.

Edited September 24, 2025 by Nationalist