The arrogance of those individuals and politicians that support socialist services that could be better provided by private companies.

[blackbird]

The condition of the public health system speaks for itself.  This article gives details and explains the problems.

Global News is just reporting another Emergency Room is closed, an excellent example of the results of the Socialist ideology.

"

Not only is the concept of socialism flawed due to natural law that demands the survival of the fittest in order to guarantee the future of life, it confers a contradictory elite status on those chosen to decide what is best for the millions.

This school of thought claims to be all about “equality” but is blind to the reality that when you force “equality” on another it frequently reduces society’s ability to do what all life demands — to continually improve the species, making it stronger and more resilient.

Why? The truth is that we are not born equal, and you cannot mandate upward ability. Mandates can only limit the abilities and opportunities of the above average to reach “equality.” Like it or not, some individuals have superior intellectual abilities, talents, physical or mental strength, agility, eyesight… or whatever is demanded in the moment to overcome adversity. If that were not true, the human race would have died out by now.

Those who disagree will claim that equality is all about opportunity and I support that, but socialists always follow that by imposing laws that promote quotas, saying their way is the natural and proper way. That makes no sense at all. If socialism were the natural order, you wouldn’t need quotas and enforcement.

Opponents of capitalism will point out that rules and laws govern this system as well. But there is a difference. In the capitalist world, the rules are looser, focused on creating a level playing field without destroying initiative or worrying about “equality.” Capitalism rules insist on freedom of choice — which is why there are laws preventing monopolies.

Under socialism, creating monopolies is the greatest, albeit most counterproductive, tool. Health care is an example. In Canada, competition in the health system is an evil notion. Yet the most successful programs around the world allow private care to compete with public programs. Socialists here argue that a “two tier system” is “unfair.” The rich, they say, will get all the best doctors and the poor will be served the dregs. Not according to worldwide experience. Under our system, though, it is a race to the bottom where everyone has the equal opportunity to spend whole days in the waiting room — rich and poor alike.

To illustrate this, I had a note from a frustrated reader who spends his winters in Mexico. He became ill and has no personal doctor, so he went to emergency where he had been waiting for eight hours alongside another patient in severe abdominal pain who had been waiting 20 hours. “In Mexico, I would have been in and out of a hospital in less than 30 minutes, and the cost would be about $40,” he wrote. As for a two-tier system, we already have that. The wealthy simply pack up and go to a doctor down south.

The mess with the health system is just one illustration. Our government-owned auto insurance and energy systems are also in a mess. Without competition to hone practices, encourage true innovation, and keep costs under control, huge and cumbersome bureaucracies build up. Preserving the status quo becomes the number one pursuit instead of striving for efficiency and innovation.

This can also happen to big business, but when it does, the business fails. Under the socialist system, it just gets worse until some brave and strong-minded capitalist gets elected and deliberately dismantles the monster.

What concerns me most, though, is the contradictions, illogic, hypocrisy and the outright arrogance of this school of thought. It assumes that the State knows better than the individual, even though the State is made up of individuals. In a world of “equals” how can this be? How can one class, in a supposedly classless society, know more about how best to live than others?

I, like most conservatives, believe in a world where we co-operate and help those who need help, but without destroying the dignity of the recipient, without assuming that we know better than they do, without dictating how others should live. That way of thinking causes a lot of trouble and some of it can be far reaching.

Think back to 2018, a year much like this one. Spring started out with hope and optimism. We had a young new prime minister with lots of energy. China had sent their prime minster to visit in 2017, and the Canada-China Year of Tourism had been declared, sending us a record 737,000 visitors from China. We looked forward to continuing this growth.

In Winnipeg, we were putting the finishing touches to the Chinese Lights of the North Festival. All sorts of dignitaries from both countries were scheduled to attend — then the bottom dropped out. Trudeau had words with Shi Jinping, which he leaked. The Chinese leader lost face and that was the end of that. He could not be lectured by some self-appointed arbiter of governance morality. Trudeau tried to back away by praising China only to get himself in deeper.

There is much more to this story, but the lesson in this piece is that we have no right to try to dictate morality to others, not as individuals nor as a country. We have democratically agreed upon standards of behaviour in our own country. They may or may not serve the needs of those in a different culture. That is their decision. We are not superior.

Nevertheless, while our socialist friends declare equality for all, they really feel themselves to be superior and to have the right to dictate to others. That is the underlying arrogance.

Capitalism is not perfect — nothing is. But at least it doesn’t pretend its ideas are like an act of God.

— Dorothy Dobbie, C.M., is a former MP and the publisher of the monthly Manitoba Lifestyles 55, and a guest writer for the Winnipeg Sun."

DOBBIE: The underlying arrogance of the socialist belief system

 

[Aristides]

Mexican hospitals come in all varieties, very basic to high end. The high end ones charge like US hospitals.

[TreeBeard]

16 hours ago, blackbird said:

“In Mexico, I would have been in and out of a hospital in less than 30 minutes, and the cost would be about $40

And a Mexican person who couldn’t afford private medical care would have to wait in line.   
I’m not sure why that’s being touted as a good thing. 
 

If you can afford the USA system, then by all means, go use it.  

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

And a Mexican person who couldn’t afford private medical care would have to wait in line.   
I’m not sure why that’s being touted as a good thing. 

"A new report from SecondStreet.org has revealed a staggering number of patient deaths linked to long wait times for surgeries and diagnostic scans in Canada. In 2023-24 alone, at least 15,474 Canadians died while waiting for care—a number that is likely much higher due to incomplete data from several provinces.

Since 2018, nearly 75,000 Canadians have died while on waiting lists, highlighting the urgent need for health care reform in the country."

28,000 Canadians Died on Waiting Lists in 2024 - Western Medical Assessments

Many of these deaths could have been avoided if we had private care working alongside public care in Canada.  Allow people who can afford it to pay for medical premiums to obtain private care.  This would take a tremendous workload off of the public system which just can't provide the necessary care now.

But many people and their politicians oppose allowing private care to operate in Canada because they say it would create a two-tiered system.  The problem with that ideology is it is depriving millions of Canadians the essential care they need, while pretending we have a good medical system that is caring for everyone.  That is a lie as we see.  Millions do not have a family doctor.   NDP, Liberal, and left ideology is killing thousands of Canadians and causing suffering of many more. all on the claim of equality.  What equality.  It doesn't exist.

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Many of these deaths could have been avoided if we had private care working alongside public care in Canada.

Perhaps but you're still queue jumping whether its ahead of Mexicans of Canadians.

America has what you're talking about and by most right-wing accounts it's the sickest country on Earth. 

[Chrissy1979]

Trump is a commie that is nationalizing private businesses, but I don't see the so-called "conservatives" complaining 

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Perhaps but you're still queue jumping whether its ahead of Mexicans of Canadians.

America has what you're talking about and by most right-wing accounts it's the sickest country on Earth. 

No, I wouldn't call it queue jumping.   When thousands of people are dying on waiting lists and many if not most of those people can afford health care premiums, the system is failing the people.  Health care is being denied for thousands of people.  That is wrong and criminal.

Proper and timely health care is being denied to countless people in Canada.  Millions don't even have a family doctor.  If you think the present system is equitable, you don't know what is going on.  I have a family doctor but it takes over a month to get an appointment to see him.  If you need care quickly, your only choice is go to the walk-in clinic or the ER and sit for hours.  Even when a person does get in to see a doctor, he runs people through like an assembly line, as quickly as possible.  You are only allowed to bring up one problem in a visit.

Why keep denying care to millions of people who could afford private health premiums?  Makes no sense.  It is being done to follow some ridiculous and cruel left wing ideology that says nobody should be able to pay for health care, even if they can afford it.

Let people who can afford it pay for care.  Denying care to massive numbers of people is not a fair or equitable system unless you think giving everyone an equal chance to die unnecessarily is a fair system.  The present system of making people die on waiting lists is wrong.  Some wait longer than others and some need care more urgently than others.  Every situation is different.  There is nothing fair or equitable about it.

America has a complex system.  That is not what we are talking about.  Have a look at some of the systems in Europe that are given good ratings.  

Canada should be able to do much better than it is.  Don't let ideology get in the way.  The ideology that private care is evil and only government care is good is proven to be a disaster.  We can do better. 

Surely you can understand the problem is government control and government's inability to rectify the problems.

Edited September 8, 2025 by blackbird

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

No, I wouldn't call it queue jumping.

What would you call it then?

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Let people who can afford it pay for care.

Ok, let's make health premiums progressive like income tax and charge wealthy people more...from each too each as they say. You say they're willing to pay more so put their money where your mouth is.

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Health care is being denied for thousands of people. 

It's not being denied - it's that it simply can't be supplied.

Just about every industry on the planet is short of people with skills those industries need.

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Have a look at some of the systems in Europe that are given good ratings.

Hey you know me, I think we should hire Norway to manage our fossil fuel industry.

16 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Canada should be able to do much better than it is.  Don't let ideology get in the way.  The ideology that private care is evil and only government care is good is proven to be a disaster.  We can do better.

I'm all for a more technocratic science driven government and the more secular the better.

[Barquentine]

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

Not only is the concept of socialism flawed due to natural law that demands the survival of the fittest

"survival of the fittest" refers to a philosophy of Social Darwinism, misinterpreting biological evolution to advocate for laissez-faire economics and justify social inequality by arguing that only the strongest, fittest individuals or groups should thrive.

 

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

Like it or not, some individuals have superior intellectual abilities, talents, physical or mental strength, agility, eyesight

That doesn't give them special constitutional rights that others don't enjoy.

 

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

In the capitalist world, the rules are looser, focused on creating a level playing field

Pure bullsh!t: Suppressing wages and educational options is a major practise in capitalism.

 

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

The rich, they say, will get all the best doctors and the poor will be served the dregs.

Yes!

 

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

This can also happen to big business, but when it does, the business fails.

So why does government always step in to save banks, carmakers etc.. with taxpayers' money.

 

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

most conservatives, believe in a world where we co-operate and help those who need help

No, most conservatives blame the poor for their plight and say "Lift yourself up!" or "A rising tide lifts all boats" or some other lie.

 

On 9/7/2025 at 10:29 PM, blackbird said:

the lesson in this piece is that we have no right to try to dictate morality to others

Unless they're poor, gay, or lesbian, or women..."

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Barquentine said:

That doesn't give them special constitutional rights that others don't enjoy.

Of course it does.  It is the right to private ownership of one's property and to be paid for what one earns and accomplishes.  There is no right such as in Communism to take what belongs to others or expect that those who by their own efforts earn a good income must give half of it to you or anyone else.  Just because a group of people vote for a party or government that takes a large part of someone's income or property to give to others doesn't make it right.  That is stealing by consensus or by vote.  It is still theft.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Barquentine said:

No, most conservatives blame the poor for their plight ...

 

Pure BS.  You are making up lies.  I have never heard any conservative say anything like that.

Edited September 10, 2025 by blackbird

[herbie]

You failed to convince anyone by claiming how the private sector could deliver services better, then fail to point out any save one.
And by claiming that one as 'socialist' when every major country but one uses a similar system to ours. Which points out that it is not socialist except in the mind of someone who does not believe health care is a right and believes in dividing the population into classes which somehow deserve different service based on their class. 

Peons, peasants, lords and ladies, poor, middle class or rich, proletariat or bourgousie, they're names of classes. And entrenchment or worship of classes is not something admired by either democracies or socialists, which are not exclusive of each other.

Go on, go away with your attempt to dismantle public health care rather than fix it. You're not helping anyone with that attitude.

[blackbird]

On 9/8/2025 at 3:40 PM, eyeball said:

You say they're willing to pay more so put their money where your mouth is.

I don't run the system and can't change it.  But as long as we have ideologues blocking any serious changes, people will continue to die by the thousands.  You seem ok with that.  You're not a serious poster;  just like to troll.

Edited September 10, 2025 by blackbird

[blackbird]

9 minutes ago, herbie said:

Go on, go away with your attempt to dismantle public health care rather than fix it. You're not helping anyone with that attitude.

You're just trolling for trolling sake.

You're not interested in changing the system to stop the thousands of unnecessary deaths.

You can't fix it anyway when the leftists hate any kind of private care to help the public system because it goes against their ridiculous ideology.  Leftists believe if anyone pays for anything that is bad and government just doesn't have enough money to improve health care.   So nothing will change.

[eyeball]

11 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't run the system and can't change it.  But as long as we have ideologues blocking any serious changes, people will continue to die by the thousands.  You seem ok with that.  You're not a serious poster;  just like to troll.

Yup, fewer people in the line ahead of me is not a bad thing.

[herbie]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

You're just trolling for trolling sake.

You're not interested in changing the system to stop the thousands of unnecessary deaths.

No I am definitely not for 'changing' the system, I'm for fixing the system.

And you can give up with the 'leftist' bullshit because even your beloved Tories won't mess with Public Health. YOU are the outlier, howling in the wilderness.

Edited September 10, 2025 by herbie

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

No I am definitely not for 'changing' the system, I'm for fixing the system.

And you can give up with the 'leftist' bullshit because even your beloved Tories won't mess with Public Health. YOU are the outlier, howling in the wilderness.

So, tell us how you would fix the system without the help of private care and money from insurance companies if government is unwilling to spend billions more?   What is your solution? 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

So, tell us how you would fix the system without the help of private care and money from insurance companies if government is unwilling to spend billions more?   What is your solution? 

Speaking for myself, I said make premiums progressive like income tax. The more you earn the more you pay.

It's not that governments are unwilling to spend - they're unwilling to tax the top income earners in society.

In any case you seem to be of the belief that if the government allowed you to buy your way to the front of a line that there would be a sudden flood of private entrepreneurs investing in medical clinics, building private hospitals, hiring staff and falling all over one another to meet the demand.

 

[herbie]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

So, tell us how you would fix the system

Like all large institutions private and public, they are clueless on how to use technology and subject to the same flaws (in descending order)
Supervisors that won't supervise
Managers than won't manage
Workers that won't work
A
They have your health file. When the lab does a test, file it. If there's an anomaly flag it and forward it to your doctor. Doctor reviews it and considers anything of concern forward to desk staff. ON THE COMPUTER SYSTEM!
Staff call you to set up appt. Enter into system and it calls to remind you of appt 2 days before. When you check in, staff cues your record on doctors machine.
B
When you call to make appt. Drs schedule is queued on staff comp and if delay is long offer another Dr's services. Enter into comp for reminder call
C
Nurse practitioners: Always one on staff for routine vaz and Emergency
D
Big push for people to train as doctors and nurses, subsidize their tuition for Cdn students
E
Offer income tax incentives at different levels for remoteness to Drs & Nurses.

They're offering $10,000 signing bonuses here for 2 year commitments already. They used to have an apartment building that only rented to doctors, nurses and professional people. Can't discriminate so now it's a shithole, enterphone dead for 25  years, lobby stinks of urine.

There's some. You'd think some would be common sense. Like how they thought up to list "diversions" so it wouldn't show up as "closures" when reporters do searches. That's why our Hospital has never made the national news when it happens at least weekly.
All top management anywhere does now is think up excuses instead of doing anything about problems.
 

 

Edited September 11, 2025 by herbie

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

In any case you seem to be of the belief that if the government allowed you to buy your way to the front of a line that there would be a sudden flood of private entrepreneurs investing in medical clinics, building private hospitals, hiring staff and falling all over one another to meet the demand.

No, I am not saying that.  How it is done is likely a complex business.   I am not opposed to top income earners paying more.  We have to do something to find a solution to the present problem.   It is bad right now.

There are some major problems.  If we could examine in detail how it is being run by the bureaucracy and politicians we would probably not be happy.  Anyone run by government has a tendency to build large bureaucracy and become inefficient.  That is one of the problems that should be closely looked at.  How many high paid bureaucrats are there in each area of the health care system and how much are they making?  What percentage of the money actually goes to provide direct care for patients?   

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

If we could examine in detail how it is being run by the bureaucracy and politicians we would probably not be happy.

Big if. Virtually the entire public domain is shrouded in confidentiality and secrecy.

It's almost like the public's business was private or something.

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, herbie said:

Like all large institutions private and public, they are clueless on how to use technology and subject to the same flaws (in descending order)
Supervisors that won't supervise
Managers than won't manage
Workers that won't work
A
They have your health file. When the lab does a test, file it. If there's an anomaly flag it and forward it to your doctor. Doctor reviews it and considers anything of concern forward to desk staff.
Staff call you to set up appt. Enter into system and it calls to remind you of appt 2 days before. When you check in, staff cues your record on doctors machine.
B
When you call to make appt. Drs schedule is queued on staff comp and if delay is long offer another Dr's services. Enter into comp for reminder call
C
Nurse practitioners: Always one on staff for routine vaz and Emergency
D
Big push for people to train as doctors and nurses, subsidize their tuition for Cdn students
E
Offer income tax incentives at different levels for remoteness to Drs & Nurses.

They're offering $10,000 signing bonuses here for 2 year commitments already. They used to have an apartment building that only rented to doctors, nurses and professional people. Can't discriminate so now it's a shithole, enterphone dead for 25  years, lobby stinks of urine.

There's some. You'd think some would be common sense. Like how they thought up to list "diversions" so it wouldn't show up as "closures" when reporters do searches. That's why our Hospital has never made the national news when it happens at least weekly.
All top management anywhere does now is think up excuses instead of doing anything about problems.
 

 

You make some very good points on that.   I will have to give it some thought.

There are so many parts of the system that should probably be examined very closely to see how they are operating.  But how much is actually be done to fix the system?  Doesn't seem like a lot.

One of the problems with government is the tendency to grow bureaucracy.  I don't know exactly why that is.  That should be examined and we should find out exactly how many administrators there are in every area and what exactly they are doing and how much it is costing.  

I wouldn't exclude private care from coming in to fill gaps and weak areas where there are waiting lists.  Eliminate waiting lists would be one of the first things I would aim at.  Secondly, I would examine the whole system of training doctors and NPs to see what can be done to greatly increase the number of doctors and specialists as well NPs.

I would examine where we could have walk-in clinics that don't have them now.  Many people going to ERs might be better treated in walk-in clinics too.  

Finding a way to have private care supplement public care with the use of medical insurance programs might be the biggest way to help fix the system.  It would have to be done in a way to ensure those who couldn't afford premiums would still receive good medical care.  That would require an overall plan which would maintain a Constitutional right to provide timely medical care for everyone regardless of income or level of wealth.  That is the only way we could possibly get everyone to agree to fix the system and bring in lots of private insurance money and medical doctors.

 

 

[herbie]

BTW we used to have the Clinic one block from the Hospital and the Lab. Someone would bring the papers from the lab to the clinic at the end of the day. When I got here, they modernized to fax machines.
Just last year a doctor told me they never got the fax from the lab. I pointed to the girls in the office and told him it was 2024 are any of them old enough to know how to use a fax? Where it is and who's supposed to check it? Did the lab punch in the number and walk away not noticing a paper jam? Is it like the rest of the hospital equipment so damn old that if the line's busy it just spits the job out and doesn't keep calling until it gets answered?

Add that on top of that lab was so ill equipped they needed to send stuff off to be analyzed and fully 1/3 were 'lost' somehow.
Tack on you don't put MRI machines or cancer clinics in a town of 2000 only Karens whine about that.

[blackbird]

5 minutes ago, herbie said:

BTW we used to have the Clinic one block from the Hospital and the Lab. Someone would bring the papers from the lab to the clinic at the end of the day. When I got here, they modernized to fax machines.
Just last year a doctor told me they never got the fax from the lab. I pointed to the girls in the office and told him it was 2024 are any of them old enough to know how to use a fax? Where it is and who's supposed to check it? Did the lab punch in the number and walk away not noticing a paper jam? Is it like the rest of the hospital equipment so damn old that if the line's busy it just spits the job out and doesn't keep calling until it gets answered?

Add that on top of that lab was so ill equipped they needed to send stuff off to be analyzed and fully 1/3 were 'lost' somehow.
Tack on you don't put MRI machines or cancer clinics in a town of 2000 only Karens whine about that.

Very interesting.  You seem to have some knowledge about some of the problems that could happen.  It is odd that they couldn't look after faxing paperwork.  I know I ran into an odd thing at the local lab.  She told me it would take a day or two for a doctor's office to fax a requisition across town.  Can you believe that?  Seems like nobody cares to fix problems like that.

Edited September 11, 2025 by blackbird

[herbie]

Far too much technical ignorance out there.
Went with my kid to the rental agency, they wanted post dated cheques. She was like 20 something I had to walk her through how to even get cheques from a bank and how to fill them out.
Slapped my card on the agent's desk and told him to call and I'd set them up with automatic withdrawals and Interac so they could get with THIS century.
Just pushed the Directors of our Society to set up online banking so we could pay bills without cheques, envelopes and stamps and trips to the Post Office. Now they can accept donations online too from their website I set up. (that sold the motion!)

BTW every week I deal with 1 person who won't do online banking because 'it's too dangerous' and two who saved their bank login and password on their computer or phone. A couple times a year one of them falls for fake webpage virus warnings or phone calls and lets someone put remote access on their computer. Couple of them lost a fortune and one lady fell for that four times!

Edited September 11, 2025 by herbie