Why Are We Doing This U.S. Vs. Canada Thing?

[Zeitgeist]

33 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Well then, we’re picking back up where our grand dads left it. 
 

Canada is breaking up. The current government is no longer able to keep all the provinces happy. You are a confederation. You already trade more individually with the United States than your selves. Give up the ghost Canucks, it’s time you petition for statehood. You’re not going to be able to stay as a sovereign nation for much longer. You all hate each other and as I’m stating to notice more so than hating the US. Which is more out of fear than hate.

We still get along with each other better than Americans get along with each other, and when we don’t, at least we don’t have as many shoot-outs over it.

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

We still get along with each other better than Americans get along with each other, and when we don’t, at least we don’t have as many shoot-outs over it.

American ranchers from Texas and Oklahoma settled in the prairie provinces. We literally are family okay. Like our great grandparents are the same. Get over this non-american identity crisis you call Canada and get on with Statehood. You know the longer this trade spat drags out, the worse off it is for both sides even though its exponentially worse for Canada. 

Edited August 15, 2025 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

35 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

American ranchers from Texas and Oklahoma settled in the prairie provinces. We literally are family okay. Like our great grandparents are the same. Get over this non-american identity crisis you call Canada and get on with Statehood. You know the longer this trade spat drags out, the worse off it is for both sides even though its exponentially worse for Canada. 

I’m not the one you need to worry about convincing.  On balance, I think everyone would be better off if both countries were one, but that’s a minority opinion in Canada.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Well then, we’re picking back up where our grand dads left it. 

Your grandads left in failure   Not sure why you want to revisit that but sure, we can kick your ass for you again if you insist  

 

 

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Canada is breaking up. The current government is no longer able to keep all the provinces happy.

They have NEVER been able to keep all the provinces happy. Yet we abide.

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You are a confederation. You already trade more individually with the United States than your selves.

Sure, why not? The US pretended to be a good friend and we trusted them and the us has benefitted hugely from the arrangement so it seemed stable. 

Now we know what kind of people you are, and we'll take the appropriate steps to distance ourselves.  

Did you honestly think that proving your word means nothing and that you're backstabbing losers would make us MORE likely to join you? PFfffttt, what planet do YOU live on? LOL

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

PFfffttt, what planet do YOU live on? LOL

You won’t get backstabbed if you’re 51st mmmkay, so for the next four years, this is Trump’s world, you all just get to live in it.

It wasn’t America that wanted taxation without representation, it’s you Canada. 

Edited August 15, 2025 by paxamericana

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, paxamericana said:

You won’t get backstabbed if you’re 51st mmmkay,

Sure we will, you guys can't keep your word to save your life.  There's countries STILL kicking themselves over believing you when you said "iraq has WMD's".   But WE knew you better  

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It wasn’t America that wanted taxation without representation, it’s you Canada. 

We didn't pay much in taxes, we were largely owned by a company.  And when we did become a nation we had representation right away.

Swing and a miss kiddo   read a book

 

[Barquentine]

On 8/9/2025 at 1:54 AM, paxamericana said:

Mississippi (our poorest state, whose GDP is ironically higher than Canada's).

You sure about that?

[Barquentine]

On 8/15/2025 at 12:15 AM, paxamericana said:

Look, If Canada breaks up, America just can’t allow a bunch of tiny failed state to border it. There will be an even stronger push to absorb all these provinces

Trust me, Canada won't break up. But the US is essentially 2 countries now, red (backward Christian theocracy) and blue (democratic modern society). You're a married couple who hate each other but have to live in the same house til the divorce comes through. Maybe that's when Alaska and Maine (and a few others) become provinces.

[paxamericana]

12 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

Trust me, Canada won't break up.

What makes you so sure? I'm genuinely curious. 

[Barquentine]

16 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

What makes you so sure? I'm genuinely curious. 

Quebec came close to winning their second secession referendum in 1990. Had they won they most likely would have remained with a 'special' status, something like they have today as a 'distinct society'. (Want to see a distinct society in Canada go to Nfld.)

Had they achieved secession it would have been worse than Brexit for them and they would have applied for re-entry. They recognise this now and there is very little appetite for leaving. Same is true in Alberta.

At the time, had Quebec seceded I thought the Maritimes' best bet would have been the 51st. But that was when the US was a normal democracy. Now 51st is the last thing we would want.

[SpankyMcFarland]

America doesn't want an EU-style arrangement with fixed rules and rights for each country. They don’t like to play a game they don’t run. 

[paxamericana]

On 10/22/2025 at 11:13 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

They don’t like to play a game they don’t run. 

Explain.

The EU was founded by a coal conglomerate between France and Germany. It spread out to become what is now the EU but that organization is built on sand. Specifically German industrial might. Now that the Germans are retiring they won’t be able to pay for the EU structure to exist. A net giver now becomes the net taker, that’s never going to get past the French baguettes waving.

Edited November 3, 2025 by paxamericana

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Explain.

The EU was founded by a coal conglomerate between France and Germany. It spread out to become what is now the EU but that organization is built on sand. Specifically German industrial might. Now that the Germans are retiring they won’t be able to pay for the EU structure to exist. A net giver now becomes the net taker, that’s never going to get past the French baguettes waving.

You are projecting contemporary America onto Germany. The EU is a political union with a common currency, external trade policy, parliament and court. Each member country has a veto on issues like enlargement, defence and foreign policy. In other words, Germany can’t just do what it likes. By contrast NAFTA is just a free trade area, the details of which the US can tear up at any time. America prefers bilateral negotiations because it can bully the other party. Increasingly, it lacks the political maturity to cope with multilateral institutions where compromises must be made for the common good. 

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

The Americans have shown us who they are by voting for an ignorant criminal goon like Trump not once but twice. The other day he was lying on tariffs yet again, claiming that Reagan loved them and Republicans remain silent about this nonsense. 

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

nonsense.

Does it bother you that the Americans are batshit crazy? No one else seems to mind except Canadians. 

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Germany can’t just do what it likes

But America can and does do what it likes, we're a continental sized German industrial power. The world's defacto super power. Yes we absolutely do have the power to bully Canada since it refused to join our club. 

Edited November 3, 2025 by paxamericana

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The Americans have shown us who they are by voting for an ignorant criminal goon like Trump not once but twice. The other day he was lying on tariffs yet again, claiming that Reagan loved them and Republicans remain silent about this nonsense. 

We saw what America is capable of with GW Bush. The clearest precursor of the weirdness we see today was how acceptable Colin Powell's comic books were as justification for going to war.

The fact it's taken a couple of decades for it to sink in with MAGA that Bush and the Republicans led them down the garden path does not inspire confidence in America's ability to know a garden path when they're on one.  They're being frog-marched down it this time.

[herbie]

Why Are We Doing This U.S. Vs. Canada Thing?

We aren't. Trump is.

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Why Are We Doing This U.S. Vs. Canada Thing?

We aren't. Trump is.

It’s our American duty to make sure the Canadian pot gets stirred every half decade or election cycle. 

Edited November 4, 2025 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

On 8/17/2025 at 12:22 PM, Barquentine said:

Trust me, Canada won't break up. But the US is essentially 2 countries now, red (backward Christian theocracy) and blue (democratic modern society). You're a married couple who hate each other but have to live in the same house til the divorce comes through. Maybe that's when Alaska and Maine (and a few others) become provinces.

As a Nation, Canada was  never united - spare me Vimy Ridge, War of 1812, Fenian Raids and of course the French Indian wars - arguably all British history - British troops - peace negotiations?  Canada has a Head of State (King of Canada) that is seated thousands of miles away. The Constitution is a sacred cow in the fact that the elected officials dare not open discussion on any part of it lest the demands evoked destroy the country itself.  Further - Canada has a Constitution that potentially cannot be enforced.  Canada also has a province advocating separatism, governed by an administration that promotes it thru LEGISLATION and federal governments locked in irons for fear of losing the french ballot. This same provincial separatist government has a federal wing that sits in parliament and has  the potential of determining NATIONAL policy decisions. I chuckle when I think that a separatist party has the potential to become the official opposition. 

But let us look at American history, specifically Manifest Destiny and more recently the Monroe Doctrine (Venezuela) . The Declaration of Independence, War of 1812, Louisiana Purchase, Civil War, Alaska - panhandle, Florida, Oregon, Spanish American War, Mexican American War. Those that say Americans and Canadians are the same should put down the bong - our history is completely different - we are (or were) far more British and Great Britain was our Aegis in the World. Until the repatriation of the British North America act, GB determined to a large degree Canada's sovereignty.  Examine the Boer War  (both), WWI, WWII  - we were labelled colonials, mother GB called and Canada responded - Quebec notwithstanding - that said, conscription almost destroyed the country. 

The likelihood of Canada breaking up is indeed a possibility - the problem for us is the changes that Trump is introducing are generational - for those that are interested it might  be worth your while to examine Project 2025. The genius of that is  basically destroying the Executive guard rails by restructuring the Civil Service (mass firing  / rehiring) to create a legacy that will endure beyond Trump.  Need I add that 'rule the Courts, rule the land'? 

[paxamericana]

5 hours ago, John Stone said:

put down the bong

Im not convinced. Culture is determined by economic integration first and foremost. Geography inhibits that. Specifically trade routes, the provinces are more economically integrated with America than other provinces because of Canada’s rugged geography  That’s not the case between Canada and America. All major Canadian populations centers are distributed along the American Border. 

Edited November 16, 2025 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Im not convinced. Culture is determined by economic integration first and foremost. Geography inhibits that. Specifically trade routes, the provinces are more economically integrated with America than other provinces because of Canada’s rugged geography  That’s not the case between Canada and America. All major Canadian populations centers are distributed along the American Border. 

Yes.  The truth that Canadians are too proud to admit is that we pay a lot of money to prop up an additional layer of government so that we can call ourselves a distinct and sovereign country, even though we mostly parrot US policy because it’s both in our interests to do so, most of the time our policies align, and most of our trade is north-south.

The truth is that Canadians would be better off as Americans, but Canadians are too offended and feel too mistreated by the U.S. government to accept being integrated into the U.S.   Trump made a misstep approaching the idea of statehood the way that he did, by reducing Canada to a single state and saying Americans would bring Canada to its knees economically to force the issue.  Canadians would rather take an economic hit than accept this kind of coercion and disrespect, and the reality that America needs to see is that Canada can persist as an independent country with a protectionist U.S.    It just means that Canadians won’t be as successful in the short term as we were with fewer trade barriers.

In the long run, who knows?  Canada’s population and domestic market could grow to a more self-sustaining size.  Our international non-US markets could grow.  We’re certainly on that path.  Do I think that any of this is the best course for Canada?  Well that depends on the U.S., and that’s the problem.  As long as we aren’t part of the U.S., a significant part of our economy is essentially in the hands of a single foreign power.  Canadians need to seriously consider how much we can really be independent of that power, and if it’s simply too much cost for too little upside, join the Americans.

Canadians won’t make that calculation because they’re too invested in their own country, which is why the best move for both countries is a straight forward removal of economic barriers.  Over time reduce the duplication of policies and departments, but Canadians would have to understand and accept that Canada would essentially be adopting many US policies/departments and gutting most of its own, with a few notable exceptions around healthcare, guns, bilingualism, etc.

There might be rare cases where Americans adopt an effective Canadian policy.  The advantages of the free movement of goods, people, and labour between the two nations would be pretty amazing.  Canadians and Americans would have to see these advantages as a worthwhile trade for the current arrangement.

Trump was more correct when he suggested to Carney recently that they merge the two countries.  Canadians need to feel that they’re still sovereign and in control of their destiny, not unlike Americans.  The U.S. needs to recognize that Canada does have an important and distinct history, that it’s a country.  If Canada ever did become part of the U.S., it would be with ten states, three territories, and a scaled down federal government in Ottawa for Canadian stuff, so basically what we have now but with less duplication. Why not just have an economic union of the two countries and call it a day? Realistically, that’s as good a deal and as close to Trump’s “merger’ as both countries are going to get in the foreseeable future.

Edited November 17, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[Barquentine]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why not just have an economic union of the two countries and call it a day?

The idea of a Euro type economic zone is ok. I mean, if France and Germany can get along under that system, any 2 countries can. Problem is the common currency. The US would never recognize anything other than the American dollar and Canadians won't want currency with American presidents on it. And what kind of problems would language and Quebec present?

[Zeitgeist]

58 minutes ago, Barquentine said:

The idea of a Euro type economic zone is ok. I mean, if France and Germany can get along under that system, any 2 countries can. Problem is the common currency. The US would never recognize anything other than the American dollar and Canadians won't want currency with American presidents on it. And what kind of problems would language and Quebec present?

In Britain Scottish pounds are the same as English ones. You can keep the Canadian mint going for cultural reasons and because it makes money making currency for other countries.  The bigger question is, do we keep our Bank of Canada?  I suggest that we keep it as a zombie bank in case the Yanks pull up stakes and go their own way, but I wouldn’t have separate interest rates and currency values unless that happened.  Basically the Canadian dollar becomes the U.S. dollar and vice versa. You can use either and both have equal value.

Edited November 17, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[paxamericana]

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes.  The truth that Canadians are too proud to admit...Canadians would be better off as Americans

and don't forget, xenophobic. The most bigoted, hateful country on the North American continent, whose entire cultural premise, is that they're not American.

Edited November 17, 2025 by paxamericana

[John Stone]

4 hours ago, Barquentine said:

The idea of a Euro type economic zone is ok. I mean, if France and Germany can get along under that system, any 2 countries can. Problem is the common currency. The US would never recognize anything other than the American dollar and Canadians won't want currency with American presidents on it. And what kind of problems would language and Quebec present?

re: EURO type economic zone? 

The U.S. has a debt in the tens of trillions $$? 

 Brexit had a lot to do with GB not willing to be responsible for economic cripples.