Alligator Alcatraz detainees allege inhumane conditions at immigration detention center

[User]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

It is a matter of opinion

Not an opinion: Entering the country unlawfully is a criminal offense. 8 U.S.C. § 1325

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

because if people have a good reason for doing something such as escaping threats to their life or family, it cannot be considered a criminal act.  That is just common sense.

There is a legal process for claiming asylum at a port of entry, which does not involve illegally entering the country and then living a life hiding from law enforcment. 

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Immigration or migrants are necessary for the economy of a country.

We are talking about ILLEGAL immigration, people unlawfully here, not ending all immigration, which there is a lawful way to do. 

Once again, you prove you are a liar, as you do in fact support illegal immigration when you claimed you did not.  

 

Just now, blackbird said:

No it wasn't a lie.  I clearly recall you constantly accused me of lying without giving any quotes to show what the lie was.

Just like you continue to do.

My opinions are not lies.  They are opinions.  You use the forum to accuse anybody you disagree with of lying.  Sick.

This is an outright lie. I provided you links back to what you said numerous times. You ignored them playing this same dishonest game you are doing now. 

 

[blackbird]

28 minutes ago, User said:

There is a legal process for claiming asylum at a port of entry, which does not involve illegally entering the country and then living a life hiding from law enforcment. 

You know as well as anyone that it is very difficult to be accepted by claiming asylum at a port of entry.  It simply doesn't work for most people.  

Edited July 13, 2025 by blackbird

[blackbird]

26 minutes ago, User said:

There is a legal process for claiming asylum at a port of entry,

That is a very difficult process which is affected by many things besides the situation of the refugee.

Under Trump the number of asylum claims being accepted has been reduced.

"In 2025, the U.S. allowed 125,000 refugees to enter the country.  The number of asylum seekers in the U.S. varies each year, with 685,956 immigrants granted asylum or another form of relief from deportation in 2020."

One article says 90% of asylum claims from Mexico are rejected.  Could be even more rejected under Trump.

This website shows a chart with the numbers admitted over the years.

This year only about 27,000 asylum claims were accepted.  In 1980 they accepted about 210,000 refugee claims.  In 2020 they accepted about 12,000.  That was during Trump's time in office.

There is conflicting reports on some of these figures.

 

Edited July 13, 2025 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

BS.  Being an undocumented immigrant is not normally considered as a criminal offence. 

 

Being in the country undocumented isn't necessarily illegal. But,Entering the country unlawfully is a criminal offense. And that applies to pretty much all of these people.

Further, not Leaving when asked is a criminal offense. And that applies to a lot of these people as well

Further while being an undocumented person in America is not a crime it is unlawful. It is still a violation of the law so they are still lawbreakers.

So are they criminals and lawbreakers? Yes, the vast majority of them will be criminals and lawbreakers. They entered the country illegally, they stayed after they were told to leave, and they are in the country against the law

I would seen you're the one lying

They can be removed at any time and that is the way it is. And they should be, criminal Behavior should never be rewarded and neither should unlawful Behavior

[User]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

You know as well as anyone that it is very difficult to be accepted by claiming asylum at a port of entry.  It simply doesn't work for most people.  

What I know is that there is a lawful and an ILLEGAL way of doing things and that is a fact you keep obfuscating because you support ILLEGAL immigration.

Most people who claim asylum are not here because they need asylum; that is why it doesn't work. 

 

Edited July 13, 2025 by User

[User]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

That is a very difficult process which is affected by many things besides the situation of the refugee.

Tell me... why isn't Canada taking in more and why are you not spending your time demanding they do?

Also... my point doesn't change, you are just making excuses to defend illegal immigration now. 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, User said:

Tell me... why isn't Canada taking in more and why are you not spending your time demanding they do?

Also... my point doesn't change, you are just making excuses to defend illegal immigration now. 

We do take in more, we take in vastly more per capita than America by a long shot, and also will you please shut the fcuk when you're talking to him about this crap? We have to live with this guy! He needs NO help from you to come up with dingbat ideas, thank you very much. 

😁

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

They can be removed at any time and that is the way it is. And they should be, criminal Behavior should never be rewarded and neither should unlawful Behavior

No, I don't agree.   If a person is trying to protect himself or his family from harm, they are just acting in self defence.  Lot of those countries where they came from are dangerous with gangs, criminals, and poverty.

 Your harsh attitude comes through clearly, just like User.  No humanity.  

[User]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, I don't agree.   If a person is trying to protect himself or his family from harm, they are just acting in self defence.  Lot of those countries where they came from are dangerous with gangs, criminals, and poverty.

 Your harsh attitude comes through clearly, just like User.  No humanity.  

How many illegal immigrants do you have living with you?

How many illegal immigrants do you help smuggle into your own country every year?

[Venandi]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Lot of those countries where they came from are dangerous with gangs, criminals, and poverty.

You mean just like the places they now live vertically in large centres (here, in the US and other places) Toronto comes instantly to mind for me.

It helps to take even one demographic group as a for instance, that way you begin to see where we (Sweden and others) went wrong. Single mothers from these regions often have lower status in their own country than their teenage sons do; so (as expected), they lose control of them here mostly to gangs. 

It's not difficult to understand.

Nor is it difficult to understand why they don't trust the police, military, or government in their home country where invariably a "mafia style" gang/war lord situation becomes the norm.

Import them in large numbers, turn them loose without adequate support, and then house them vertically in ghettoized neighbourhoods and the results become predictable. A classic WTF did you think was going to happen scenario IMO. Almost as predictable as the cries of "racist xenophobe" from Herb like creatures when people (who actually do understand the cultural idynamics) suggest that doing that comes with challenges. 

And before any trolls get nasty here I didn't even say don't do it... BUT, if you are going to do it at least make a weak sister effort to do the damn thing right. For all the bluster and name calling, you (we and us) "cheaped out". Now you (we and us) will have to live with the consequences of it for decades. Throw in the effect of demographic concentrations on voting blocks and differences in (ethnic) birth rates over time and the smart money is on "interesting times ahead".

I haven't seen a single conversation about the future of the countries demographic topography that didn't (or doesn't) dissolve into name calling. Isn't it rational to consider where the demographics will (or could be) 50 years from now? Who knows, maybe in 50 years Germany will be an Islamic state, maybe it won't and maybe that's OK either way... isn't it something worth considering before it happens though?

 

Edited July 13, 2025 by Venandi

[Fluffypants]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

You know as well as anyone that it is very difficult to be accepted by claiming asylum at a port of entry.  It simply doesn't work for most people.  

That should tell you that most of their claims are BS. 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Fluffypants said:

That should tell you that most of their claims are BS. 

No it doesn't tell you that.   The quotas are set by the President.  Politics has a large part in it and what the mood is in the country is, particularly which party is in power, even though refugee acceptance is supposed to be governed by the international convention on refugees.  It should not be a political chess game.

Should you treat your fellow human beings like scum and just say they're all talking BS?  How do you know that?  Do you really think someone that thinks like you should be a judge on who is accepted into the country?  Sounds like you've already made the decision for all refugees.

Edited July 13, 2025 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

11 hours ago, blackbird said:

No, I don't agree.   If a person is trying to protect himself or his family from harm, they are just acting in self defence. 

They are acting in self-interest. That is not the same as self defense. Self-defense only applies to force used against an aggressor. If America was the one that made them poor or was threatening them then that might be different but that's not the case. So it's not self-defense

Your argument can apply to virtually any country who invades a foreign nation for resources or to eliminate their threat. Russia could legitimately claim self-defense if we were to take your definition as legitimate.

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Should you treat your fellow human beings like scum and just say they're all talking BS? 

You should follow the law. That's as simple as it gets.  And america is NOT responsible for the well being of citizens in other countries.  Like, at all. 

Now if America wants to decide to accept responsibility for people outside it's borders and it certainly can do so. That would involve changing the law and the agreement of the American people. And so far despite having been given many many opportunities that hasn't happened.

Again and you've never answered or addressed this, if a person broke into your home and took over a room and said they really needed the space but they're not leaving...  you would say that's perfectly ok and you shouldn't get a say in it?

There is a process for applying to come to live in America or Canada or anywhere else. If they chose to ignore that I came anyway they broke the law. That's a crime, you are arguing that it's a justifiable crime that is still a crime. And if you break the law you may face consequences. And that's what's happening.

 

You're just talking in circles and not actually making a point anymore. You are unable to defend your position with logic so you just keep repeating it. You have failed to make any kind of case as to why it's okay to break the law. You have not explained why if the law is a problem they haven't just changed the law. And you haven't demonstrated why America is supposed to accept sole responsibility for these people just because they don't like life where they are.

You got nothing left. I get it that you feel so badly for these people. There's nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make what America is doing wrong

 

 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

No it doesn't tell you that.   The quotas are set by the President.  Politics has a large part in it and what the mood is in the country is, particularly which party is in power, even though refugee acceptance is supposed to be governed by the international convention on refugees.  It should not be a political chess game.

Should you treat your fellow human beings like scum and just say they're all talking BS?  How do you know that?  Do you really think someone that thinks like you should be a judge on who is accepted into the country?  Sounds like you've already made the decision for all refugees.

How many times are you going to need to be informed?

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/us-refugee-resettlement

Nations have "refugee" quotas.

[Fluffypants]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

No it doesn't tell you that.   The quotas are set by the President.  Politics has a large part in it and what the mood is in the country is, particularly which party is in power, even though refugee acceptance is supposed to be governed by the international convention on refugees.  It should not be a political chess game.

Should you treat your fellow human beings like scum and just say they're all talking BS?  How do you know that?  Do you really think someone that thinks like you should be a judge on who is accepted into the country?  Sounds like you've already made the decision for all refugees.

Here is the thing they skip tons of countries and come here, if they were worried about their government they would try to get asylum in a neighboring country not travel 1000s of miles to get here.

So yes 99% of the asylum seekers are full of shit, they are here because they are poor and want money period end of story. We aren't the worlds charity even though we are supposed to take care of the worlds poor according to other countries that don't deal with illegal immigration anywhere near the levels we do.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Again and you've never answered or addressed this, if a person broke into your home and took over a room and said they really needed the space but they're not leaving...  you would say that's perfectly ok and you shouldn't get a say in it?

That shows you how warped your thinking really is.  No comparison with undocumented migrants.   Nobody is breaking into your home.  

[herbie]

Funny how they'd rather talk aout home invaders and killers than about Alligator Auchwitz being as at least wrong and immoral as Japanes internemtn camps were in the 1940s.
Or the preholocaust Geman camos for 'unwanted' like Gypsies, Jews and political prisoners in pre-war Germany.

No the openly brag about it and Gitmo and for profit lockups in El Salvador....

no shame at all. Blakbird and I seldom agree, but you don't need a Bible to see outright depravity, human failing and outright evul when it's right in front of your eyes.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

That shows you how warped your thinking really is. 

Your inability to address a couple of pretty simple points Is a sign of my warped  thinking?

It's more like a sign of your pathetic desperation that you would even say that

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

No comparison with undocumented migrants.   Nobody is breaking into your home.  

But they did. That's exactly what they do when they enter a country illegally. They are breaking into your home.

And again you can't address it. You know you're in the wrong and you are just mad about it you want it to be my fault.

They're in the country illegally, they should be removed 

[User]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

That shows you how warped your thinking really is.  No comparison with undocumented migrants.   Nobody is breaking into your home.  

Yeah, but what if they needed to because they felt like they needed your stuff to live?

Who are you to say no. 

 

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Funny how they'd rather talk aout home invaders and killers than about Alligator Auchwitz being as at least wrong and immoral as Japanes internemtn camps were in the 1940s.

Who are you talking to? 

You are the one who makes these comments screaming into the void and runs away from almost every discussion you have ever been in. 

 

[User]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

No it doesn't tell you that.   The quotas are set by the President. 

The president sets a limit on refugees, not on how many people can claim asylum. 

Why isn't Canada accepting more people? Go complain to your leaders. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, User said:

Why isn't Canada accepting more people? Go complain to your leaders. 

( I swear to christ i'm going to slap  you with a burrito if you don't shut up)

[Deluge]

On 7/12/2025 at 8:52 PM, blackbird said:

You know as well as anyone that it is very difficult to be accepted by claiming asylum at a port of entry.  It simply doesn't work for most people.  

Law abiding citizens can't afford to give a shit; we have enough problems of our own, so no, aliens either report at a port of entry or they turnaround and go home. Those are the two choices. 

[Deluge]

19 hours ago, blackbird said:

That shows you how warped your thinking really is.  No comparison with undocumented migrants.   Nobody is breaking into your home.  

Yet. Nobody is breaking into our homes, YET. What they were doing is breaking into our country and sucking up tax dollars. It'd have been only a matter of time before the invaders got to our homes. 

You see, pervert, people are wising up to your bullshit. It's just one more reason why your fellow communist a$$hole, Kamala Harris, lost the election.