Happy “Liberation Day” aka Economic Disaster Day

[Nationalist]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's where the GINI comes in.  

You are happy that the economy is being upended but you don't understand where it's going.  How exactly will this result in a windfall for working people ?  I never understood that.

And how exactly would the status quo help anyone but the uber-wealthy?

Bringing jobs home should produce a better standard of living for the middle and lower classes.

You do want the little people to thrive...don't you?

[eyeball]

On 4/21/2025 at 9:29 AM, CdnFox said:

Sure, but that distrust is based largely on not knowing what trump is going to do next.

It's deeper than that especially if you take the view Trump is a symptom and more effect than cause.

If America can produce the conditions where a leader like Trump can exist then anything is possible.

[BeaverFever]

The Orange Id1ot is backing down AGAIN 

 

Trump deploys abrupt tone shift amid market slump

 

President Trump got a scare from CEOs and markets on Monday. On Tuesday, he blunted some of his sharpest threats — signaling a softer stance on China and retreating from fiery rhetoric targeting the Fed.

Why it matters: The president is resolute in his goal of reshaping the economy. But he's sensitive to the movement of the markets and the pleas of powerful corporate leaders and investors who fear the worst from his sweeping efforts.

Zoom in: Monday was a tough day for Trump's goal of reshaping the global economy.

 

The CEOs of three of the nation's biggest retailers — Walmart, Target and Home Depot — privately warned him that his tariff and trade policy could disrupt supply chains, raise prices and empty shelves, according to sources familiar with the meeting.

"The big box CEOs flat out told him [Trump] the prices aren't going up, they're steady right now, but they will go up. And this wasn't about food. But he was told that shelves will be empty," an administration official familiar with the meeting told Axios.

Another official briefed on the meeting said the CEOs told Trump disruptions could become noticeable in two weeks.

While that was happening, financial markets were slumping — stocks, bonds, the dollar — as investors panicked about Trump's latest threats to oust Fed chair Jerome Powell and step on the central bank's independence.

Then on Tuesday, he turned the dial down.

His Treasury secretary, and then his press secretary, and then Trump himself all indicated that trade talks with China were imminent, starting on a good foot, and would result in a deal with much lower tariffs than the current 145%.

Trump then told reporters in the Oval Office that he had "no intention" of firing Powell, even

….

 

Between the lines: Trump's shift in tone comes at the same time as a shift in Trump's orbit.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has been exerting more influence in recent weeks, reportedly getting in Trump's ear — to the point of rushing the Oval Office when other advisers aren't around — to get him to ease off for the sake of markets.

 

 

The big picture: For the first time since he entered political life, polls show most voters disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy.

Inflation — which he claims is nonexistent — is still a little hot, growth is slowing, and manufacturers are losing confidence.

Recession isn't inevitable, but it looks a lot more likely now than it did even a couple of months ago.

Around the world, the "sell America" trade is taking hold, as investors start to realize decades of orthodoxy about U.S. assets as safe havens may no longer be the case.

 

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/23/trump-economy-tariffs-china-powell

 

 

 

 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

The Orange Id1ot is backing down AGAIN 

 

Trump deploys abrupt tone shift amid market slump

 

President Trump got a scare from CEOs and markets on Monday. On Tuesday, he blunted some of his sharpest threats — signaling a softer stance on China and retreating from fiery rhetoric targeting the Fed.

Why it matters: The president is resolute in his goal of reshaping the economy. But he's sensitive to the movement of the markets and the pleas of powerful corporate leaders and investors who fear the worst from his sweeping efforts.

Zoom in: Monday was a tough day for Trump's goal of reshaping the global economy.

 

The CEOs of three of the nation's biggest retailers — Walmart, Target and Home Depot — privately warned him that his tariff and trade policy could disrupt supply chains, raise prices and empty shelves, according to sources familiar with the meeting.

"The big box CEOs flat out told him [Trump] the prices aren't going up, they're steady right now, but they will go up. And this wasn't about food. But he was told that shelves will be empty," an administration official familiar with the meeting told Axios.

Another official briefed on the meeting said the CEOs told Trump disruptions could become noticeable in two weeks.

While that was happening, financial markets were slumping — stocks, bonds, the dollar — as investors panicked about Trump's latest threats to oust Fed chair Jerome Powell and step on the central bank's independence.

Then on Tuesday, he turned the dial down.

His Treasury secretary, and then his press secretary, and then Trump himself all indicated that trade talks with China were imminent, starting on a good foot, and would result in a deal with much lower tariffs than the current 145%.

Trump then told reporters in the Oval Office that he had "no intention" of firing Powell, even

….

 

Between the lines: Trump's shift in tone comes at the same time as a shift in Trump's orbit.

Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has been exerting more influence in recent weeks, reportedly getting in Trump's ear — to the point of rushing the Oval Office when other advisers aren't around — to get him to ease off for the sake of markets.

 

 

The big picture: For the first time since he entered political life, polls show most voters disapprove of Trump's handling of the economy.

Inflation — which he claims is nonexistent — is still a little hot, growth is slowing, and manufacturers are losing confidence.

Recession isn't inevitable, but it looks a lot more likely now than it did even a couple of months ago.

Around the world, the "sell America" trade is taking hold, as investors start to realize decades of orthodoxy about U.S. assets as safe havens may no longer be the case.

 

https://www.axios.com/2025/04/23/trump-economy-tariffs-china-powell

 

 

 

 

Q: How many smart people does it take to teach BASIC economics to a giant orange toddler?

A: A lot! 

 

It's like we've given a child the captaincy of the world's biggest airplane mid-flight. He's banging all the buttons and levers in the cockpit without a clue what they do, while the grownups around him patiently explain that he's headed for the ground--and we simply hope he can be persuaded of basic reality.

Edited 23 hours ago by Hodad

[Nationalist]

13 hours ago, Hodad said:

Q: How many smart people does it take to teach BASIC economics to a giant orange toddler?

A: A lot! 

 

It's like we've given a child the captaincy of the world's biggest airplane mid-flight. He's banging all the buttons and levers in the cockpit without a clue what they do, while the grownups around him patiently explain that he's headed for the ground--and we simply hope he can be persuaded of basic reality.

ya...right...lol.

 

[Hodad]

50 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

ya...right...lol.

 

Gaffes or no gaffes, we successfully rebuilt the economy under Biden, going from Trumpster fire to the envy of the world. 

And now Trump is back in office, mashing buttons and yanking levers he CLEARLY does not understand, and we're tanking. 

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Gaffes or no gaffes, we successfully rebuilt the economy under Biden, going from Trumpster fire to the envy of the world. 

And now Trump is back in office, mashing buttons and yanking levers he CLEARLY does not understand, and we're tanking. 

Oh horseshit! All Brandon did was employ way to many people in government bureaucracies to pump the unemployment numbers and spend way to much money.

Trump is at least doing something to help the middle-class and below. Prices are stabilizing and so are the markets. Investment in America is up and as this happens, REAL employment will take shape.

As for you and your wild-eyed assumptions...pfft.

You Libbies have nothing. You spend like a pampered Washington wife and you destroy everything you limp noodles touch.

Edited 9 hours ago by Nationalist

[Hodad]

47 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Oh horseshit! All Brandon did was employ way to many people in government bureaucracies to pump the unemployment numbers and spend way to much money.

Trump is at least doing something to help the middle-class and below. Prices are stabilizing and so are the markets. Investment in America is up and as this happens, REAL employment will take shape.

As for you and your wild-eyed assumptions...pfft.

You Libbies have nothing. You spend like a pampered Washington wife and you destroy everything you limp noodles touch.

As much as you despise data, the numbers are the numbers. 

Trump is helping the middle class by whimsically multiplying the costs of the goods they consume while tanking their 401Ks? Soooo helpful. 

Your fantasy that investment is up based on tariffs that keep being put "on hold" is laughable. Investment has been up based on IRA and CHIPS incentives. The on-again-off-again tariffs haven't had any impact on real investment. Nobody is investing based on schizophrenic policy. The only things tariffs have accomplished is to scare the shit out of the markets, alienate allies, devalue the dollar, and drive trade to other companies. Pure destruction. There is no upside. 

 

[Nationalist]

20 minutes ago, Hodad said:

As much as you despise data, the numbers are the numbers. 

Trump is helping the middle class by whimsically multiplying the costs of the goods they consume while tanking their 401Ks? Soooo helpful. 

Your fantasy that investment is up based on tariffs that keep being put "on hold" is laughable. Investment has been up based on IRA and CHIPS incentives. The on-again-off-again tariffs haven't had any impact on real investment. Nobody is investing based on schizophrenic policy. The only things tariffs have accomplished is to scare the shit out of the markets, alienate allies, devalue the dollar, and drive trade to other companies. Pure destruction. There is no upside. 

 

https://doge.gov/savings

https://www.biospace.com/job-trends/massive-investment-in-us-manufacturing-triggers-wave-of-career-opportunities

Have a warm and fuzzy day...loser.

[Hodad]

13 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

https://doge.gov/savings

https://www.biospace.com/job-trends/massive-investment-in-us-manufacturing-triggers-wave-of-career-opportunities

Have a warm and fuzzy day...loser.

To understand the world, you'd have to actually stop and THINK for a moment. 

1. Your "champion of the middle class" threatened to add a 25% tax on people's medication

2. Do you think a 25% price increase has any meaningful impact on demand for medicine? Do you imagine these are recreational drugs?

3. Do you have any idea how much your medication actually costs? Do you know anyone who is paying for medication out-of-pocket?

 

There aren't many markets less likely to be affected by tariffs. So what are the Big Pharma companies actually negotiating for? Oh, that's right, Trump has promised them to repeal drug price negotiation provisions in the IRA. To, again, raise the price of medicine and protect Big Pharma profits. 

Something like 90% of the generic medication is made in India and China. The price for generics will go up, while Big Pharma can continue to set exorbitant prices for brand name medication. Quite the windfall for Big Pharma. They also need Trump to protect the patents of their money factory. 

You sure have a funny idea of "helping the middle class."🤪

[Nationalist]

16 minutes ago, Hodad said:

To understand the world, you'd have to actually stop and THINK for a moment. 

1. Your "champion of the middle class" threatened to add a 25% tax on people's medication

2. Do you think a 25% price increase has any meaningful impact on demand for medicine? Do you imagine these are recreational drugs?

3. Do you have any idea how much your medication actually costs? Do you know anyone who is paying for medication out-of-pocket?

 

There aren't many markets less likely to be affected by tariffs. So what are the Big Pharma companies actually negotiating for? Oh, that's right, Trump has promised them to repeal drug price negotiation provisions in the IRA. To, again, raise the price of medicine and protect Big Pharma profits. 

Something like 90% of the generic medication is made in India and China. The price for generics will go up, while Big Pharma can continue to set exorbitant prices for brand name medication. Quite the windfall for Big Pharma. They also need Trump to protect the patents of their money factory. 

You sure have a funny idea of "helping the middle class."🤪

Again...and to your previous point...which you are not trying to avoid...

https://doge.gov/savings

https://www.biospace.com/job-trends/massive-investment-in-us-manufacturing-triggers-wave-of-career-opportunities

Have a warm and fuzzy day...loser.

[Hodad]

17 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Again...and to your previous point...which you are not trying to avoid...

https://doge.gov/savings

https://www.biospace.com/job-trends/massive-investment-in-us-manufacturing-triggers-wave-of-career-opportunities

Have a warm and fuzzy day...loser.

Has been addressed. Not my fault you can't follow a conversation.

The vast bulk pharma revenue is from drugs that are protected, and in many cases don't have 1:1 replacements.  The US pays about 3x as much for the same drugs as they do in other countries. And it's NOT because they are being manufactured less expensively elsewhere. So who is Trump trying to help by threatening to tax our already overpriced meds and offering to repeal drug price negotiation provisions?

Big Pharma has Americans over a barrel because people like Trump protect their Big Pharma buddies. If he really wanted to help the middle class he'd fight to get us the same prices that they pay in other countries instead of making a deal to protect their lucrative situation. 

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Hodad said:

Gaffes or no gaffes, we successfully rebuilt the economy under Biden, going from Trumpster fire to the envy of the world. 

And now Trump is back in office, mashing buttons and yanking levers he CLEARLY does not understand, and we're tanking. 

Simply not true. And the evidence of this has been provided to you dozens of times and you choose to ignore it and instead cherry pick a couple of statistics that you feel defends Biden, most of which turned out to be untrue later when the numbers were adjusted. For example job gains were a fraction of what biden had claimed initially.

But you can only get through life by ignoring the facts and ignoring people that are able to present them to you so that you could stick your head in the sand and pretend that there's no reason not to believe the lies and nonsense you clutch to.

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

Has been addressed. Not my fault you can't follow a conversation.

The vast bulk pharma revenue is from drugs that are protected, and in many cases don't have 1:1 replacements.  The US pays about 3x as much for the same drugs as they do in other countries. And it's NOT because they are being manufactured less expensively elsewhere. So who is Trump trying to help by threatening to tax our already overpriced meds and offering to repeal drug price negotiation provisions?

Big Pharma has Americans over a barrel because people like Trump protect their Big Pharma buddies. If he really wanted to help the middle class he'd fight to get us the same prices that they pay in other countries instead of making a deal to protect their lucrative situation. 

You didn't even read the 2 links I posted...did you.

You bark a lot but its all just phony bologna.

Typical Libbie.

[BeaverFever]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Oh horseshit! All Brandon did was employ way to many people in government bureaucracies to pump the unemployment numbers and spend way to much money.

Seriously are you stupid or something?  Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Seriously are you stupid or something?  Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Actually he's not far off there. And the numbers do back that. 

There's a reason why he spent even more money during his term even after covid than trump did during covid.  That artificially inflates the economy and stocks but it's all a false economy.  There's much we can say about trump at the moment but if you thought Biden's economy was actually good, it wasn't. I'm pretty sure i've posted the rather large body of proof on threads you were on before. 

[Nationalist]

29 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Seriously are you stupid or something?  Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

Not ridiculous at all. What's ridiculous is claing the economy under Brandon was anything but false.

[Hodad]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You didn't even read the 2 links I posted...did you.

You bark a lot but its all just phony bologna.

Typical Libbie.

Of course I read it, weirdo. That's why I'm asking you to dust of your rotten old brain and think for a moment about what's actually happening. Hence the questions. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. 

Tariffs are taxes that raise prices on targeted goods to shift demand elsewhere. Does that apply to a pharmaceutical market in which consumers have a) no earthly idea of prices, b) unabating need, c)little alternative?  Oh, and meanwhile generics from China and India are targeted for even heavier tariffs. 

This is not about tariffs shifting demand. It's about Trump's deal to repeal the negotiated drug prices in the IRA. 

Trump continues to throw Americans under the bus to create a smoother ride for his rich buddies.