Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Chretien had it right on Canada’s international relations. Multilateral but occasional opting out. However to be able to do that effectively requires more hard power and economic independence than we currently have. well again, Canada First is just copying Donald Trump, which means Canada would be endorsing Donald Trump's policy, both morally & economically, I don't think that works for Canada ; why would you want to follow Donald Trump down into the mire therein ? Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: well again, Canada First is just copying Donald Trump, which means Canada would be endorsing Donald Trump's policy, both morally & economically, I don't think that works for Canada ; why would you want to follow Donald Trump down into the mire therein ? I’m not into America First in the sense of zero-sum. I agree that Canada First could be construed that way. I think PP’s point is that the Canadian government needs to serve Canada’s interests primarily, but I agree that what’s good for Canada generally is good for the world. I think the question is whether the wishes of the citizens in a nation should take precedence over the interests of outside influences. Democracy means that they should. Otherwise we have lack of accountability and the purpose of a federal government is undermined. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I think PP’s point is that the Canadian government needs to serve Canada’s interests primarily, that is Donald Trump's position with the American government you can't escape that Canada First is just another case of Canada having no ideas of its own, rather it is Canada just mimicking the Americans again, even to Canada's disadvantage therein, right there Polievre should be disqualified, because he's just grasping at straws, oh, Donald Trump said it, so I am going to say it too ? Yeah okay sure, good luck with that, Canada never mind how you are saying that Donald Trump is an id!ot and lunatic for saying it, get your f*cking story straight already, Canada Edited March 8 by Dougie93 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: that is Donald Trump's position with the American government you can't escape that Canada First is just another case of Canada having no ideas of its own, rather it is Canada just mimicking the Americans again, even to Canada's disadvantage therein, right there Polievre should be disqualified, because he's just grasping at straws Trump isn’t all wrong. A federal government needs to put its citizens first. In fact, creating win-win situations with other countries is almost always in the interests of the citizens because it builds trusts and opportunities. It becomes a problem when the costs of seeking to gain an advantage over another country or interest group damages the relationship such that the costs of reparation or abandoning the relationship completely are higher than the short-term advantage gained. That’s where Trump is missing the boat. Poilievre has to flesh out his vision and should probably use different language from Canada First. Devil is in the details. I trust Poilievre on resource development, lowering the cost of housing, reducing woke nonsense, and restoring Canadian pride over anything the Liberals have on offer now. Again, let’s see what the new Liberal leader does from now until the federal election. I already know where Poilievre stands. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 Just now, Zeitgeist said: Trump isn’t all wrong. yes he is, he's a complete lunatic, everything he is doing is going to explode in America's face like a bomb Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: yes he is, he's a complete lunatic, everything he is doing is going to explode in America's face like a bomb Well he’s forced Canada to get its priorities straight. I’m not giving up on Trump yet. Sadly, many people already have. Trump has to pivot and mend fences fast, however. The markets are responding to his rhetoric and approach with crushing blows. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Well he’s forced Canada to get its priorities straight. I’m not giving up on Trump yet. Sadly, many people already have. well that is the benefit of Trump, his lunacy is forcing everybody else to get serious, hence why I wanted him to win, but you don't want to adopt his suicidal policies therein, yes, America needs to get humbled, it's a good thing, it is good for America to learn a harsh lesson but Canada is already pathetic, no need to humble Canada from the pathetic state it is in now whatever way Trump is going, Canada should be going in the exact opposite direction Edited March 8 by Dougie93 Quote
WestCanMan Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 2 hours ago, Dougie93 said: America is already regretting messing with the Canadians, Maybe, but that doesn't mean that we can have high-ranking members of our government talking about getting nukes to defend us from America. It's like a there's a VP for McDonald's restaurants who's serious about asking for hand-grenades for her cashiers because sometimes they get yelled at, so she posts that on FB, with the corporate logo on it. No sane person thinks that cashiers at McDonald's should throwing grenades under any circumstances. If you think that's a ridiculous analogy, think about the repercussions of having Britain nuke NYC for us, or even threatening America with nukes. I don't think that I've ever seen or heard of anyone else ever communicating anything that stupid, and we just lived through 10 years of Trudeau as PM, and 4 years of Joe Biden as POTUS. Hell, not even myata or robo are stupid enough to say anything like that. Freeland really needs to be taken away and locked up, that's how stupid and dangerous she is. 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: why would he want to ? she's going pitbull against Donald Trump, ready to nuke the White House if she could, enraged Canadians are clambering for that, at least 80-20 for Canada First is just adopting Donald Trump's doctrine for Canada, bad idea, since Canada is actually dependant on liberalized trade instead OMG, make it stop. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: well that is the benefit of Trump, his lunacy is forcing everybody else to get serious, hence why I wanted him to win, but you don't want to adopt his suicidal policies therein, yes, America needs to get humbled, it's a good thing, but Canada is already pathetic, no need to humble Canada from the pathetic state it is in now Canada needs to dump the virtue bluster that depends on American largesse for its defence and prosperity. We need to understand the cost of true independence and pay it or we join the U.S.. We can’t have delusions of our own importance and grandeur. Again, there’s an opportunity here for economic union, but the best we can hope for right now is a restoration of Harperite Canada, because Canadians are furious and Trump keeps doubling down. Apparently people are bypassing cheap US goods in supermarkets right now that are suddenly in over-supply due to lack of sales. Canadians are defiant and willing to pay higher prices. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Canada needs to dump the virtue bluster that depends on American largesse for its defence and prosperity. We need to understand the cost of true independence and pay it or we join the U.S.. We can’t have delusions of our own importance and grandeur. Again, there’s an opportunity here for economic union, but the best we can hope for right now is a restoration of Harperite Canada, because Canadians are furious and Trump keeps doubling down. Apparently people are bypassing cheap US goods in supermarkets right now that are suddenly in over-supply due to lack of sales. Canadians are defiant and willing to pay higher prices. last time this happened was Hawley-Smoot, Canada took the bait and mirrored the American administration, big mistake, since the Great Depression was worse in Canada than it was in America, Canada should be dropping all trade barriers not raising them, to retaliate against the Americans ; you put an export duty on energy ; only America pays for that Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: last time this happened was Hawley-Smoot, Canada took the bait and mirrored the American administration, big mistake, since the Great Depression was worse in Canada than it was in America, Canada should be dropping all trade barriers not raising them, to retaliate against the Americans ; you put an export duty on energy ; only America pays for that Ford is doing that on energy. Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 Just now, Zeitgeist said: Ford is doing that on energy. Alberta needs to do it too, the question is, is Ontario prepared to shock the American Big Three on auto tariffs ? like if GM, Ford, & Stellantis start to comply with Trump, move their production to the USA, does Canada have the aggression to drop the tariffs on Chinese EV's ? because the Chinese EV's are stunningly great at a very low price, Chinese EV's will sell like hotcakes at $25K each, the Mexicans are crazy for Chinese EV's, that's the sort of thing which will scare the Americans, beat them over the head with China's better products Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Alberta needs to do it too, the question is, is Ontario prepared to shock the American Big Three on auto tariffs ? like if GM, Ford, & Stellantis start to comply with Trump, move their production to the USA, does Canada have the aggression to drop the tariffs on Chinese EV's ? because the Chinese EV's are stunningly great at a very low price, Chinese EV's will sell like hotcakes at $25K each, the Mexicans are crazy for Chinese EV's, that's the sort of thing which will scare the Americans, beat them over the head with China's better products Nice one. Yeah maybe we should. However, the harder but better play is to make our own EVs for domestic and export use. Hybrid and other gas vehicles too. Also, I don’t buy the idea that the Big Three aren’t also Canadian automakers. History shows that they are. Our home grown auto industry is fully integrated with the Big Three and those companies have been manufacturing and building components in Canada pretty much from their inception. That’s also why trying to parse out national content in the auto industry is so messy. There are good reasons why these components come from this area, usually related to local resource supply and centres of excellence. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Nice one. Yeah we should. we worked with Stalin to beat Hitler, entirely consistent with the defence of the British Crown when necessary Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: However, the harder but better play is to make our own EVs for domestic and export use. Hybrid and other gas vehicles too. made by which Canadian auto company ? since there is no such thing, don't get cute, this is war, keep it simple stupid ; let the Chinese do the harm for you Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: we worked with Stalin to beat Hitler, entirely consistent with the defence of the British Crown when necessary Yes but that’s also the point: We are all connected. Russia was a longstanding ally before the Cold War. There’s still potential for better relations with China, but Harper played it smarter than Trudeau. Start skeptical and build trust over time. 1 minute ago, Dougie93 said: made by which Canadian auto company ? since there is no such thing, don't get cute, this is war, keep it simple stupid ; let the Chinese do the harm for you Magna had an SUV prototype 30 years ago. We have the companies and infrastructure ready to go. Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Magna had an SUV prototype 30 years ago. We have the companies and infrastructure ready to go. don't get cute, this is war, keep it simple stupid, maximum harm to the enemy at no cost at all to you ; win win Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: made by which Canadian auto company ? since there is no such thing, don't get cute, this is war, keep it simple stupid ; let the Chinese do the harm for you It’s any easy quick play, sure, that would give the Yanks pause, but you don’t want to undermine our existing strong auto sector. I wouldn’t assume that it will decline. I think Trump will desist before the whole supply chain collapses and auto prices climb 20% on both sides of the border. China likely would win in such circumstances. We would quickly get addicted to cheap Chinese EVs and the offshoring of our manufacturing could accelerate. However, everything is on the table. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 Just now, Zeitgeist said: We would quickly get addicted to cheap Chinese EVs. so what ? I'm ready to buy one right now, at the prices the Chinese charge, I can afford an EV as a third car the Americans have stabbed you in the back, and most Canadians are Communists by nature anyways, so what cause do you even have to deny yourself a cheap Chinese EV now ? I don't buy union made American cars, I'm not a member of Unifor, they are not my problem, I buy Japanese but if you ever saw what the Chinese are offering for that price ? It's actually stunning Quote
ironstone Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Yes but that’s also the point: We are all connected. Russia was a longstanding ally before the Cold War. There’s still potential for better relations with China, but Harper played it smarter than Trudeau. Start skeptical and build trust over time. Magna had an SUV prototype 30 years ago. We have the companies and infrastructure ready to go. There was another country that put on a 100% tariff on Chinese EV's in order to protect their own auto industry. https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/china-electric-vehicles-tariff-trade-canada-1.7338087 The 100 per cent tariff on imports of Chinese-made EVs (and some hybrids), including cars, buses, trucks and delivery vehicles, takes effect on Tuesday after a 30-day consultation period over the summer. A 25 per cent surtax on steel and aluminum imports from China will kick in on Oct. 15. While the move is meant to keep cheap, well-made electric cars from China at bay in order to grow and protect Canada's nascent EV sector, critics warn there could be a number of consequences, including to environmental goals and other Canadian sectors as a trade war looms. So the Canadian government clearly felt they were justified in applying this hefty tariff. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell
Zeitgeist Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: so what ? I'm ready to buy one right now, at the prices the Chinese charge, I can afford an EV as a third car the Americans have stabbed you in the back, and most Canadians are Communists by nature anyways, so what cause do you even have to deny yourself a cheap Chinese EV now ? I don't buy union made American cars, I'm not a member of Unifor, they are not my problem, I buy Japanese but if you ever saw what the Chinese are offering for that price ? It's actually stunning We should get in on the action with Chinese EVs in that case by requiring a certain amount of Canadian-made content. Set up a couple of assembly plants in Ontario, hire several thousand Ontarians, get our parts industry involved. Replace the tariffs on Chinese EVs with CanCon requirements. Work that into the deal to remove the latest Chinese tariffs on our rapeseed, etc. Edited March 8 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 31 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Also, I don’t buy the idea that the Big Three aren’t also Canadian automakers. the cars they make are junk, I wouldn't be caught dead in a union made Chevy, Ford, nor Chrysler Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 Just now, Zeitgeist said: We should get in on the action in that case by requiring a certain amount of Canadian-made content. Set up a couple of assembly plants in Ontario, hire several thousand Ontarians, get our parts industry involved. Replace the tariffs on Chinese EVs with CanCon requirements. Work that into the deal to remove the latest Chinese tariffs on our rapeseed, etc. quite sure Beijing would be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie, they dream of having Canada has the entry point into North America, you know what would be funny tho ? you'd quickly have American venture capital getting in on the action too, 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: However, everything is on the table. it's asymmetrical warfare, like Ukrainian drones against Russian tanks ; maximum bang for your buck Quote
eyeball Posted March 8 Report Posted March 8 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: well again, Canada First is just copying Donald Trump, which means Canada would be endorsing Donald Trump's policy, both morally & economically, I don't think that works for Canada ; why would you want to follow Donald Trump down into the mire therein ? Because above all else, Donald Trump's policy is to stick it to libbies. Speaking of which...who's side are you on again? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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