robosmith Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, Nationalist said: It is weird. It's like watching a Chihuahua fight a German Shepard...or a Bear. I don't understand how anyone could have seen this develop and finally blow, and really believe Ukraine was gonna win anything. They're lucky Kiev is still there. You have no idea what you're talking about. Luck had nothing to do with being way underestimated by Putin et al, That was the RESULT of smarts and guts. 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 Some facts about the Russia Ukraine war, and just who is a dictator, from the pro-Trump New York Post. https://nypost.com/2025/02/20/opinion/putin-is-the-dictator-and-10-ukraine-russia-war-truths-we-ignore-at-our-peril/ Quote
Nationalist Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 2 hours ago, robosmith said: You have no idea what you're talking about. Luck had nothing to do with being way underestimated by Putin et al, That was the RESULT of smarts and guts. And cabbage rolls...yes I know... Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
robosmith Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 26 minutes ago, Nationalist said: And cabbage rolls...yes I know... What you "know" is a clown show, with you being the star. LMAO 1 1 Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 22 Author Report Posted February 22 15 hours ago, I am Groot said: Some facts about the Russia Ukraine war, and just who is a dictator, from the pro-Trump New York Post. https://nypost.com/2025/02/20/opinion/putin-is-the-dictator-and-10-ukraine-russia-war-truths-we-ignore-at-our-peril/ There is some truth to that article, but at the end of the day, it's still just western-POV propaganda, riddled with intentional inaccuracies and disinformation. 1) Yes, Putin is the ruler of Russia right now, but the communist party there still has power and he could still be taken out if he wasn't doing what they want him to do. It's old-skool. So to say that he's a dictator isn't truly accurate, because most dictators don't live with a gun to the back of their head. If Putin goes the way of Rasputin, the guy who takes his place will be a carbon copy, propped up by the party. Yes, people in Russia live with less freedom than we do, no one would deny that. 2) To say that Russia is fighting for conquest in only a half-truth, which means that it's 50% a lie, which imo qualifies as a lie. They're misleading you into thinking that Russia's goal is to eliminate the Ukrainian gov't, when they really just want conquest of the ethnic Russian area, IE the Donbas. You will never admit to this, but those people were being discriminated against and brutalized by the Ukrainian gov't and Ukrainian militias to the point where they did want the protection of the Russian gov't. Part of that was due to 'Bay of Pigs'-style interference from the Russian gov't, but a lot of it was genuine desire to depart from America's chosen path for Ukraine. 3) Their #3 is a total lie. Russia isn't after Kiev, they've always been invested in the "liberation" (frying pan -> fire) of Donbas. 5) You gotta admit that it's odd to hear an American say that "free and fair elections in Russia ended in 1999" 🤣. It's also odd to hear them act like Russia had an independent media before 1999. Who knew? FYI Canada doesn't even have that, and don't pretend that CNN, ABC and CBS aren't controlled by the Dems. Regarding the political/extrajudicial killings in Russia, that's just Russia. But tbh, America has killed people for treason as well, and is a show trial resulting in your execution so much better than a death warrant from the politburo? They both result in death, only 1 death has a heaping side of slander and the other has a side of polonium. 6) Total horsesh1t. Zelensky absolutely is a dictator, and let's not forget that he was installed by the US gov't. He kicked out all opposition and he seized control of the media. What more does he need to do to earn his dictator badge? Start a fire by rubbing two sticks together? 8. Who cares if Ukraine is a friend of the US? That doesn't mean that they weren't an enemy to Russia, and even an enemy to their own people in Donbas. This is a messy divorce in Ukraine, and between Ukraine and Russia. This is the path that was chosen, and it's messy. 9. Putin can't be trusted. Uhhhh, ditto for Biden. Ditto for Kamala. Ditto for Hillary. Ditto for Trump. Ditto for Obama. Ditto for Dubya. Ditto for Clinton. Ditto for the FBI. Ditto for Pelosi. Ditto for Shumer... 10) To say that "American aid to Ukraine is not being wasted" is a total lie when it's made in such a broad, declarative statement. Some of it is definitely being wasted, and all of it was unnecessary because if the US hadn't put a pro-war president in the WH there wouldn't have been a war. Kudos to Biden for achieving something of great importance to himself, but not only was that money wasted, lives were wasted. 1 1 Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
eyeball Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 On 2/21/2025 at 7:11 AM, User said: 100% Biden was President when Putin invaded. 100% Biden watched for months as Russia built up an invasion. 100% Biden could have and should have done more BEFORE the invasion to prevent, discourage, and thwart it. Putin certainly did not invade on Trumps watch. Were Republicans 100% pushing Biden to do more? No, a few then more and finally most started balking enough that it put the brakes on Democratic enthusiasm for doing more. I realize how very important this partisan bickering and divisiveness is to Americas domestic political world but you fail to appreciate to outsiders you're just Americans typically acting on ideological whims as opposed to any cogent consistent foreign policy. What do I mean by consistency? If Ronald Reagan could see the GOP today he'd puke. 2 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
User Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Were Republicans 100% pushing... Your entire post is irrelevant to the facts I was pointing out. 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 2 hours ago, WestCanMan said: There is some truth to that article, but at the end of the day, it's still just western-POV propaganda, riddled with intentional inaccuracies and disinformation. 1) Yes, Putin is the ruler of Russia right now, but the communist party there still has power and he could still be taken out if he wasn't doing what they want him to do. The Communist party is not in power in Russia. United Russia is Putin's party. 2 hours ago, WestCanMan said: It's old-skool. So to say that he's a dictator isn't truly accurate, because most dictators don't live with a gun to the back of their head. The only people who have to worry about guns to the back of their heads are anyone who irritates Putin. He absolutely is a dictator. Anyone who opposes him dies. 2 hours ago, WestCanMan said: 5) You gotta admit that it's odd to hear an American say that "free and fair elections in Russia ended in 1999" 🤣. It's also odd to hear them act like Russia had an independent media before 1999. Who knew? Douglas Murray is British, to begin with. He's also not so much a columnist as a war correspondent, though he has written a number of books that I'm surprised you haven't heard of, including The Strange Death of Europe. He has spent most of the last year traveling between Ukraine and Israel. He was in Ukraine when the Israeli war started, went there, embedded with the IDF and went into Gaza. He has an absolute TON of experience being the man on the spot, talking with presidents, generals and common people. I trust what he has to say. . 2 hours ago, WestCanMan said: 6) Total horsesh1t. Zelensky absolutely is a dictator, You might also give a read or two to Konstantin Kisin, who is both Russian and Ukrainian, though he now lives in the UK. The war should have been brought to an end a long time ago as I wrote here. My hope is that Trump can achieve that and I've said many times he is far more likely to do that than Biden ever was. But, facts matter. Calling Zelensky a dictator is absurd. Both Murray and Kisin have been fairly strong supporters of Trump but both disagree with him about Ukraine and Russia. Then there's Piers Morgan, another Trump supporter. Volodymyr Zelensky is NOT a dictator. Vladimir Putin IS a dictator. Zelensky didn’t start the war in Ukraine. Putin did. Hope this clarifies things for anyone who is confused. 1 Quote
herbie Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 20 hours ago, robosmith said: It's like watching a Chihuahua fight a German Shepard...or a Bear. My chihuahua cross chases bears out off the yard all the time. Bears are lumbering cowards as Russia's proven itself. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, herbie said: My chihuahua cross chases bears out off the yard all the time. Bears are lumbering cowards as Russia's proven itself. Well...those cowards just took about 20% of Ukraine. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
herbie Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 And here you are complaining they 'needlessly' stopped them from taking 100%. What a stupid and outright traitorous position to have. Suck up to the MAGAtts some more why don't you? Quote
robosmith Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 1 hour ago, herbie said: My chihuahua cross chases bears out off the yard all the time. Bears are lumbering cowards as Russia's proven itself. I didn't say what you quoted, that is gnat girl. Quote
robosmith Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Well...those cowards just took about 20% of Ukraine. Most of that was taken by Putin's "green men" before the "invasion." AKA Russian soldiers with NO identifying signia. Quote
eyeball Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 1 hour ago, User said: Your entire post is irrelevant to the facts I was pointing out. Pointing out that Ronald Reagan would definitely puke is irrelevant? Who's side are you on again? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
User Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 2 hours ago, eyeball said: Pointing out that Ronald Reagan would definitely puke is irrelevant? Who's side are you on again? Yes. It is irrelevant. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 3 hours ago, robosmith said: Most of that was taken by Putin's "green men" before the "invasion." AKA Russian soldiers with NO identifying signia. Uh huh... 4 hours ago, herbie said: And here you are complaining they 'needlessly' stopped them from taking 100%. What a stupid and outright traitorous position to have. Suck up to the MAGAtts some more why don't you? Peace is coming. Enjoy that. 1 Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Scott75 Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 (edited) On 2/21/2025 at 11:47 AM, robosmith said: On 2/21/2025 at 2:09 AM, Scott75 said: As I think we can agree, this war was an absolute tragedy for everyone doing the actual fighting from start to finish. As to the powers behind those fighting the war, I think an agreement may finally be in reach soon. Unlike Biden et al, who were deeply entrenched in the Ukraine war gravy train, Trump has no such ties, as far as I know. As an indication of this, I just read that as soon as Trump came into office, he stopped the United States' support of bombing Russia: ** since January 20, the new president’s inauguration, there have been no attacks on Russia with American HIMARS and ATACMS missiles. The assumption is that Kiev received such an order from Trump, who replaced and fired people who dealt with Ukrainian issues in the State Department and the Pentagon. ** Source: Even with Western aid drying up, corruption continues to flourish in Ukraine | infobrics.org As a result of Trump's lack of ties to Ukraine's gravy train, he has no reason to continue funding it. Combined with the fact that Ukraine's soldier count is severely depleted, I think any reasonble person must conclude that this war can't last much longer. infobrics, you must be joking. Obviously dominated by dictators with money. LMAO Find a CREDIBLE source and then we'll talk infobrics.org is apparently a website associated with BRICS. In case you're unaware of BRICS, here's Wikipedia's description of BRICS: ** BRICS is an intergovernmental organization consisting of ten countries—Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran and the United Arab Emirates. It is considered to be a counterpart and alternative to the G7 bloc of the world's largest economies, representing nearly half[2] of the world's population.[3][4] ** Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS Scoff all you like, but when an organization representing almost half of the world's population approves a news article, I'd think that most would want to take note of what they have to say. That's not to say that they should be trusted unconditionally, far from it, but certainly what they have to say should be listened to and, if it's important enough, investigated. Since you questioned the infobrics article, I decided to see if I could independently verify if the U.S. had indeed stopped launching HIMARS and ATACMS missiles since January 20th. Turns out, that wasn't accurate, at least for HIMARS missiles: ** Here is the situation on Tuesday, January 21: [snip] The governor of Russia’s Bryansk region, Alexander Bogomaz, said 14 Ukrainian drones were neutralised in the region, which borders Ukraine. He claimed Kyiv also fired four United States-made HIMARS missiles at targets in Bryansk. ** Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/21/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-one-thousand-sixty-two Another report, this one from February 14th, 2025: ** Ukraine launched a huge wave of drones as well as missiles, Russia said, with 202 unmanned aerial vehicles shot down, along with three French-made Hammer guided bombs and United States-made HIMARS rockets. ** Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/14/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-17 I haven't been able to find out if ATACMs were still launched after January 20th. Edited February 23 by Scott75 Quote
eyeball Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 2 hours ago, User said: Yes. It is irrelevant. So is any notion you really give any sort of meaningful shit about Ukraine. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
herbie Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 5 hours ago, robosmith said: I didn't say what you quoted I wasn't paying attention to the software glitch that picks the wrong quoter. Done that too many times..... Quote
robosmith Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Uh huh... So you are IGNORANT about Putin's "little green men." Figures. Watch Out for Little Green Men Brookings https://www.brookings.edu › articles › watch-out-for-lit... Ukrainians coined the term “little green men” when such soldiers first manned roadblocks and seized strategic points on the Crimean peninsula. NATO should think ... "Little green men" or "Russian invaders"? BBC https://www.bbc.com › news › world-europe-26532154 Mar 11, 2014 — Another phrase used by reporters in Russia and Ukraine alike is "little green men", which refers both to the colour of their uniforms and their unconfirmed ... 2 hours ago, Scott75 said: infobrics.org is apparently a website associate with BRICS. In case you're unaware of BRICS, here's Wikipedia's description of BRICS: ** BRICS is an intergovernmental organization consisting of ten countries—Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iran and the United Arab Emirates. It is considered to be a counterpart and alternative to the G7 bloc of the world's largest economies, representing nearly half[2] of the world's population.[3][4] ** Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS Scoff all you like, but when an organization representing almost half of the world's population approves a news article, I'd think that most would want to take note of what they have to say. That's not to say that they should be trusted unconditionally, far from it, but certainly what they have to say should be listened to and, if it's important enough, investigated. Since you questioned the infobrics article, I decided to see if I could independently verify if the U.S. had indeed stopped launching HIMARS and ATACMS missiles since January 20th. Turns out, that wasn't accurate, at least for HIMARS missiles: ** Here is the situation on Tuesday, January 21: [snip] The governor of Russia’s Bryansk region, Alexander Bogomaz, said 14 Ukrainian drones were neutralised in the region, which borders Ukraine. He claimed Kyiv also fired four United States-made HIMARS missiles at targets in Bryansk. ** Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/21/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-one-thousand-sixty-two Another report, this one from February 14th, 2025: ** Ukraine launched a huge wave of drones as well as missiles, Russia said, with 202 unmanned aerial vehicles shot down, along with three French-made Hammer guided bombs and United States-made HIMARS rockets. ** Source: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/2/14/russia-ukraine-war-list-of-key-events-day-17 I haven't been able to find out if ATACMs were still launched after January 20th. I know about BRICS. And now I know who runs "infobrics" and because of who runs it, NOT CREDIBLE. You might as well cite the Russian government. 🤮 Quote
Nationalist Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 6 hours ago, robosmith said: So you are IGNORANT about Putin's "little green men." Figures. Watch Out for Little Green Men Brookings https://www.brookings.edu › articles › watch-out-for-lit... Ukrainians coined the term “little green men” when such soldiers first manned roadblocks and seized strategic points on the Crimean peninsula. NATO should think ... "Little green men" or "Russian invaders"? BBC https://www.bbc.com › news › world-europe-26532154 Mar 11, 2014 — Another phrase used by reporters in Russia and Ukraine alike is "little green men", which refers both to the colour of their uniforms and their unconfirmed ... Little green men? So Russia has an Area 51 too? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Scott75 Posted February 23 Report Posted February 23 (edited) On 2/21/2025 at 11:50 AM, WestCanMan said: On 2/21/2025 at 1:52 AM, Scott75 said: Amen. As to your questions: 1- Nothing but a lucrative gravy train for certain elites in Ukraine. 2- Biden was in on the gravy train. 3- To keep the gravy train going. A good article on these points was published on infobrics on February 3rd: Even with Western aid drying up, corruption continues to flourish in Ukraine | Infobrics It may not be perfect [I snipped a paragraph that didn't make sense to me], but I think it gets most of the story right. Quoting from it: ** [snip] In Kiev, the main culprit behind these corruption schemes is Zelensky, who officially has a monthly salary of 28,000 hryvnias, about $664. Undoubtedly, he has other income because he bought a house for his parents and in-laws, a yacht, and more. According to media reports, Zelensky purchased a villa in Italy and acquired an estate in Britain—the former residence of King Charles and Princess Diana—while Zelensky’s wife has an apartment in London. In addition, the couple owns real estate in Cyprus and Miami. This, according to some sources, is not a complete list. An Egyptian journalist who wrote about the purchase of the Italian villa in the name of Zelensky’s mother-in-law, worth almost $5 million, was found dead under unclear circumstances. As for the castle in the UK, these allegations are made by Ukrainian sources and still need to be verified. However, there is nothing secret that does not become public, and the Trump administration is certainly monitoring the movement of money. [snip] ** I'm not saying this stuff is certain to be false, but there were FB posts before about Zelensky's newfound wealth which were allegedly false. I like how you put *allegedly* false :-p. It can certainly be hard to pin down how much wealth powerful people have- I think we can agree that this is by design. I think the following article from June 2024 runs the gamut as to the range of what Zelensky's net assets are worth: https://kenyainsights.com/volodymyr-zelensky-net-worth-and-rise-from-actor-to-president/ It pins Zelensky's worth at $596 million, but it doesn't say what it's sources of information are. It also says that estimates of Zelensky's wealth range from 20 million to 1.5 billion. Quite a wide range. Forbes would be the one to claim the lower number of 20 million ("at most", they say): https://www.forbesmiddleeast.com/leadership/leaders/president-zelensky-is-not-a-billionaire-so-how-much-is-he-worth Perhaps more interesting, though, is where much of the money allegedly sent to Ukraine went. Zelensky did bring this up. An article on that: https://www.newstarget.com/2025-02-05-zelensky-exposes-102b-black-hole-us-aid-ukraine.html The article definitely suggests that most of the gravy train is generally much closer to home. Edited February 23 by Scott75 Added information 1 Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 23 Author Report Posted February 23 20 hours ago, I am Groot said: The Communist party is not in power in Russia. United Russia is Putin's party. And they're not communists? Quote The only people who have to worry about guns to the back of their heads are anyone who irritates Putin. He absolutely is a dictator. Anyone who opposes him dies. I don't doubt that he has that power, but he's not like KJU, with the divine right of emperors flowing through his veins. He's just the figurehead of the Russian old-guard, and if he crosses their red line, he'll die, and then the next figurehead will emerge. By contrast; killing KJU would require changing the way North Koreans think about their leadership structure. Do you think that Putin could just unilaterally decide to have real free & fair elections, so that future generations of Russians would have democracy? I personally don't think so. I think that he would be killed within 24 hrs if he talked about something like that. I think that power behind the throne in Russia is very real, and that it has always been the case. Quote Douglas Murray is British, to begin with. He's also not so much a columnist as a war correspondent, though he has written a number of books that I'm surprised you haven't heard of, including The Strange Death of Europe. He has spent most of the last year traveling between Ukraine and Israel. He was in Ukraine when the Israeli war started, went there, embedded with the IDF and went into Gaza. He has an absolute TON of experience being the man on the spot, talking with presidents, generals and common people. I trust what he has to say. . I'm not sure where you were going with that, tbh. Quote You might also give a read or two to Konstantin Kisin, who is both Russian and Ukrainian, though he now lives in the UK. The war should have been brought to an end a long time ago as I wrote here. My hope is that Trump can achieve that and I've said many times he is far more likely to do that than Biden ever was. But, facts matter. Calling Zelensky a dictator is absurd. Both Murray and Kisin have been fairly strong supporters of Trump but both disagree with him about Ukraine and Russia. Then there's Piers Morgan, another Trump supporter. Volodymyr Zelensky is NOT a dictator. Vladimir Putin IS a dictator. Zelensky didn’t start the war in Ukraine. Putin did. Hope this clarifies things for anyone who is confused. You're making a distinction without a difference. Like Putin, Zelensky is a mouthpiece of the people who put him where he is today. He's as much the product of a "free and fair election 😉" as Putin is. The Russian old-guard puts Putin on the ballot as long as he continues to do their bidding, and the US gov't put Zelensky on the ballot. Like Putin, Zelensky runs a government that's purged of opposition members, and every media outlet in the country is duty-bound to pass along Zelensky's word as if it's God's own. Quote 1) Zelensky didn’t start the war in Ukraine. 2) Putin did. 1) That's almost 100% true: Zelensky was just the guy on stage the day/year the war started. The lead-up goes back many years though. 2) The architect of this war is the US/NATO, and no one else. It's basically the greatest proxy war ever staged. While you and I see this war in terms of lives lost and cities destroyed, and it's viewed as a sad and tragic loss of life, the black-tie crowd in DC clink glasses every time someone dies there, and every time a missile is fired their bank account grows by a few dollars each. If someone invents a time machine, and sets the dial for 2021 so that they can prevent that war from happening, they better not let the DC elites know about their little trip. Senators and congressmen from both sides of the aisle, plus back-room powerbrokers like James Carville, would roast them alive just to make a point. Quote Hope this clarifies things for anyone who is confused. Amen. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
WestCanMan Posted February 23 Author Report Posted February 23 3 hours ago, Scott75 said: Forbes would be the one to claim the lower number of 20 million ("at most", they say): TBH, after $10M, everything else is gravy. And I doubt that Zelensky's money is worth anything in a bar or restaurant. He's getting free meals and booze for life, as long as he keeps singing the proper tune. 1 Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
WestCanMan Posted February 23 Author Report Posted February 23 On 2/22/2025 at 12:45 PM, herbie said: My chihuahua cross chases bears out off the yard all the time. Bears are lumbering cowards as Russia's proven itself. If you can get rid of myata somehow, you'll be the flag-bearer for Canada in the Stupid Olympics. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
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