I am Groot Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 8 hours ago, WestCanMan said: They were a Nazi militia group, but they were accepted into Ukraine's military, so now they're a battalion of the Ukrainian army. Ukraine is so under America's thumb that they elected a quisling actor to sell them out. If you think Zelansky is selling them out you really ought to have a look at what that doddering, dementia patient in the White House has been up to. Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 23 minutes ago, I am Groot said: If you think Zelansky is selling them out you really ought to have a look at what that doddering, dementia patient in the White House has been up to. Tens of thousands of Ukrainians died because Biden and Zelensky just insisted on shoving NATO up Putin's arse. Trump is putting an end to the killing. There will be tens of thousands of Ukrainians saved by Trump's action. Do you think they really care whether or not Bakhmut is part of Ukraine or Russia if they and their kids get to live? Most of the people who live there are Russians. They are happier in Russia than Ukraine. What do you think should happen, Groot? What would be better than ending the war that Biden didn't want to end? Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
I am Groot Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Tens of thousands of Ukrainians died because Biden and Zelensky just insisted on shoving NATO up Putin's arse. Bullshit. I don't know why you don't believe Putin. He's made it clear that he thinks Ukraine has always been part of Russia and must rejoin so that Russia can be great again. The NATO excuse was just that, an excuse. He never thought Western Europe would invade his crap country. 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Trump is putting an end to the killing. By surrendering. 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Do you think they really care whether or not Bakhmut is part of Ukraine or Russia if they and their kids get to live? Most of the people who live there are Russians. They are happier in Russia than Ukraine. No. What they care about is agreeing to let Russia have the chunk of their country he's stolen, then agreeing to stay out of NATO, then in four or five years Russia launches another attack to take more territory. 3 hours ago, WestCanMan said: What do you think should happen, Groot? What would be better than ending the war that Biden didn't want to end? It's childish to assume Biden didn't want it to end. You need an agreement that guarantees Ukraine's remaining territorial integrity. And the problem with that is Russia already did that and went back on their agreement. So the only way this works is if Ukraine becomes a member of NATO afterward. Or at least if NATO troops are in place to guarantee their sovereignty. Both of which Putin has vetoed. Edited February 21 by I am Groot Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: Bullshit. I don't know why you don't believe Putin. He's made it clear that he thinks Ukraine has always been part of Russia and must rejoin so that Russia can be great again. The NATO excuse was just that, an excuse. He never thought Western Europe would invade his crap country. Bullshit. Russia came to peace talks constantly, staring right in the first month. What did they always demand? Say it... Quote By surrendering. You're thinking like that gambler who's on a losing streak, but he's still sitting there sweating it out at 4:30 in the morning, throwing his watch, keys, and everything else he has on the table. Only this isn't 'just' dollars. People were dying by the tens of thousands. At some point you realize that you shoulda stopped hours ago. This war should have stopped years ago. Quote It's childish to assume Biden didn't want it to end. It's childish to deny that Biden didn't want the war to keep going. He literally never talked about peace at all. Just more, more, more, more. We have no reason whatsoever to believe that the war would be ending right now if Biden's term hadn't ended. None at all. We have no reason to believe that any hostages would have been released in the Israeli war if Biden's term hadn't ended. Why can't you just admit that his presidency was an abysmal failure? Why can't you see peace as a victory? Do you have any idea the cost, in lives, of putting enough effort into that war to drive the Russians back to their border? C'mon dude, act like you have an IQ, or a heart. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 Putin’s useful idi0ts in the Trump Whitehouse and their useful idi0ts who apologize for them on forums like this one dont want peace they want a Russian victory, full stop. Just compare their position: Ukraine: Ukraine must unilaterally surrender because the world must have peace at any cost and all lives are sacred Territorial boundaries are meaningless and not worth dying for Israel: Israel must fight a forever war against it enemies no matter how many people are killed in the name of revenge and defending and expanding territorial boundaries Quote
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 8 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Bullshit. Russia came to peace talks constantly, staring right in the first month. What did they always demand? They demanded Ukrainian territory be ceded to Russia by right of conquest in violation of international law and all norms 8 hours ago, WestCanMan said: This war should have stopped years ago. Russia can go home any time, dummy. They never should have invaded in the first place. Quote
Nationalist Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 21 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Russia can go home any time, dummy. They never should have invaded in the first place. They will go home. Their new home in the Donbas region. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 41 minutes ago, Nationalist said: They will go home. Their new home in the Donbas region. You’re celebrating a dictator illegally invading annexing another country’s sovereign territory and intentionally bombing children’s hospitals and schools and civilian structures, forced relocations of Ukrainian children into Russia …..and you think you’re the good guy. No different than cheering for Genghis Khan or Hitler. 1 1 Quote
gatomontes99 Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 Isn't it interesting how the party of peace and love is now the party of perpetual war machine and hatred? Quote The Rules for Liberal tactics: If they can't refute the content, attack the source. If they can't refute the content, attack the poster. If 1 and 2 fail, pretend it never happened. Everyone you disagree with is Hitler. A word is defined by the emotion it elicits and not the actual definition. If they are wrong, blame the opponent. If a liberal policy didn't work, it's a conservatives fault and vice versa. If all else fails, just be angry.
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 (edited) 18 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: Isn't it interesting how the party of peace and love is now the party of perpetual war machine and hatred? Nope we’re also the party of self-defence and peace through adherence to the rule of law . It’s republicans who are the party of perpetual war and hatred because they want to reward and Russia for its act of aggression and encourage others to do the same. Also Republicans have no problem with perpetual war and hatred when it come to Israel. ANYONE WHO IS TRULY FOR PEACE WOULD DEMAND RUSSIA GO HOME. PERIOD You’re demanding the victims surrender to the violent criminal in the name of peace. What stunning dishonesty. Edited February 21 by BeaverFever 1 Quote
gatomontes99 Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Nope we’re also the party of self-defence and peace through adherence to the rule of law . It’s republicans who are the party of perpetual war and hatred because they want to reward and Russia for its act of aggression and encourage others to do the same. Also Republicans have no problem with perpetual war and hatred when it come to Israel. ANYONE WHO IS TRULY FOR PEACE WOULD DEMAND RUSSIA GO HOME. PERIOD You’re demanding the victims surrender to the violent criminal in the name of peace. What stunning dishonesty. Lmao...oh, so if we just demand it, it'll happen eh? Why didn't Joe do that? Well, we know why. A demand will do nothing. Hell, the left has been demanding it from the start. Nope, the only way to make Russia leave is to make Russia leave. F35s, Blackhawk, Tanks, troops, the whole 9 yards. Is that peace? No. What Russia did was awful. The question is, how much are we willing to sacrifice to impose our will? Are you going to go fight them? Are you willing to send your family members ro go fight them? Are you willing to risk WWIII and/or nuclear war? I will never say that negotiating an end is the perfect solution. It might be the best solution we have though. I definitely won't decry a deal that hasn't been made either. 1 Quote The Rules for Liberal tactics: If they can't refute the content, attack the source. If they can't refute the content, attack the poster. If 1 and 2 fail, pretend it never happened. Everyone you disagree with is Hitler. A word is defined by the emotion it elicits and not the actual definition. If they are wrong, blame the opponent. If a liberal policy didn't work, it's a conservatives fault and vice versa. If all else fails, just be angry.
Nationalist Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 (edited) 56 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: You’re celebrating a dictator illegally invading annexing another country’s sovereign territory and intentionally bombing children’s hospitals and schools and civilian structures, forced relocations of Ukrainian children into Russia …..and you think you’re the good guy. No different than cheering for Genghis Khan or Hitler. I'm celebrating the pending peace deal and an end to this senseless war. I'm also enjoying watching your warmongering being dashed. Edited February 21 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: They demanded Ukrainian territory be ceded to Russia by right of conquest in violation of international law and all norms You know that you're lying by omission, right? Yes, Russia did demand control of certain areas where they had already conquered almost all of the ground, but Russia also made 'Ukraine in NATO' a deal-breaker. They were always consistent about that. Quote Russia can go home any time, dummy. They never should have invaded in the first place. You're lying again, Beave. If Russia completely caved, Ukraine would be in NATO, and Russia would be backed against the wall. Pro tip: if you wanna tell a couple lies, maybe just insert a couple of banal truths into your post, just so that your truths/lies ratio isn't X/0. Get it? In that post you were 2/0. Your post was 100% lies. Maybe just go for 2/3, by adding something like "The sky is blue" next time. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
User Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Nope we’re also the party of self-defence and peace through adherence to the rule of law . Um. Is this a joke? You are the party that tried to crucify Rittenhouse and Penny for both acting in self defence. You oppose laws that empower people to defend themselves, oppose gun possession for self defense as much as you can, your party backs and supports leftist DA's who are more interested in equity than justice... You are not the party of self defense or the rule of law. 4 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Ukraine: Ukraine must unilaterally surrender because the world must have peace at any cost and all lives are sacred Territorial boundaries are meaningless and not worth dying for This is not any of the proposals on the table right now, where are you getting this from? Quote
CdnFox Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said: Lmao...oh, so if we just demand it, it'll happen eh? Why didn't Joe do that? Well, we know why. A demand will do nothing. Hell, the left has been demanding it from the start. Nope, the only way to make Russia leave is to make Russia leave. F35s, Blackhawk, Tanks, troops, the whole 9 yards. Is that peace? No. What Russia did was awful. The question is, how much are we willing to sacrifice to impose our will? Are you going to go fight them? Are you willing to send your family members ro go fight them? Are you willing to risk WWIII and/or nuclear war? I will never say that negotiating an end is the perfect solution. It might be the best solution we have though. I definitely won't decry a deal that hasn't been made either. Well, there is a reasonable amount of truth in that. As I have made clear in the past I hold Russia 100% responsible for this current war. I don't buy into any of the prior history nonsense any more than I do with gaza attacking Israel. There were diplomatic in other reasonable solutions if they were concerned about the militarization of Ukraine. However I have to agree that at some point the conflict has to come to an end and I recognize that that may very well necessitate that Ukraine loses some of its land. I think it's crappy but if the allies wanted to prevent that I think they needed to go in whole hog from the beginning instead of dripping bits of aid here and there and waiting to see what Russia did before getting serious. Digging Russia out now is probably not possible without nATO troops on the ground no matter how much aid you give Ukrainians. I think the real question is going to be the militarization of Ukraine afterwards. Rush I will inevitably demand that Ukraine not be armed after the conflict is over. They very clearly intend to wait a few years and take another poke at them. And Ukraine isn't stupid, they know that's what's coming. So the real battle is probably going to be a discussion about ukraine not only not joining NATO but also not receiving armaments from NATO and any appreciable amount. And as you say it's hard to condemn a deal that you haven't seen yet. But I have to say trump's talk right now is pretty disturbing and not helpful. Quote
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 1 hour ago, User said: Rittenhouse and Penny for both acting in self defence. Rittenhouse and Penny are not countries and they aren’t innocent victims defending their homes either. 1 hour ago, User said: This is not any of the proposals on the table right now, where are you getting this from? Any seal where Ukraine has to cede territory to Russia is a unilateral surrender. Russia is not giving up anything in return by simply agreeing to go home. 4 hours ago, Nationalist said: I'm celebrating the pending peace deal and an end to this senseless war. I'm also enjoying watching your warmongering being dashed. No. You’re celebrating a pending Russian victory. You don’t give a shit about peace. Quote
User Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 4 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Rittenhouse and Penny are not countries and they aren’t innocent victims defending their homes either. So, it's not the party of self-defense. Like I said. 5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Any seal where Ukraine has to cede territory to Russia is a unilateral surrender. Russia is not giving up anything in return by simply agreeing to go home. Um, no. Unilateral surrender would be Russia just takes all of Ukraine and does as they wish with the entire country. Negotiated peace with terms, is just that. Quote
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 1 hour ago, WestCanMan said: You know that you're lying by omission, right? Yes, Russia did demand control of certain areas where they had already conquered almost all of the ground, but Russia also made 'Ukraine in NATO' a deal-breaker. They were always consistent about that. That’s the pathetic excuse like Trumps claims about Canadian fentanyl. Ukraine in NATO was never a serious or imminent prospect, could he addressed through diplomacy anyways and invading and doesn’t justify invading and annexing Ukrainian territory anyways. In fact it only justifies Ukraine in NATO. You know, Germans had legitimate complaints against the European powers after WW1 but only a gullible stooge would try to claim those justified the rise of Hitler and WW2 or that addressing those complaints were all Hitler was trying to accomplish 1 hour ago, WestCanMan said: You're lying again, Beave. If Russia completely caved, Ukraine would be in NATO, and Russia would be backed against the wall. If Russia had never invaded in the first place Ukraine in NATO probably wouldn’t have happened. And since NATO is a defensive alliance and Ukraine had barely any military at all they wouldn’t be “backed against a wall”. Before Putin started all this bullshit the West wanted to trade with Russia and had invested heavily in doing so. Russia was never in any danger of being attacked. So whatever ridiculous fantasy you have about “Russia being backed against a wall” is nonsense in any event. 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, User said: So, it's not the party of self-defense. Like I said. Um, no. Unilateral surrender would be Russia just takes all of Ukraine and does as they wish with the entire country. Negotiated peace with terms, is just that. For countries it is the party of self-defence. As usual we see republicans have no values or principles at all. No, at this stage allowing Russia to keep what it conquered without having to provide anything in return is unilateral surrender. Quote
User Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 7 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: For countries it is the party of self-defence. As usual we see republicans have no values or principles at all. No, at this stage allowing Russia to keep what it conquered without having to provide anything in return is unilateral surrender. Um... no one is here saying Ukraine can't defend itself. But, of course, you care more about Ukraine than you do Americans. That is not the definition of surrender. Quote
BeaverFever Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 1 hour ago, User said: Um... no one is here saying Ukraine can't defend itself. But, of course, you care more about Ukraine than you do Americans. That is not the definition of surrender. Yeah as a Canadian right now I care more about Ukrainians than Americans. Then again USA isn’t being invaded like Ukraine is and the president of Ukraine isn’t trying to annex his neighbours like Trump is. Unconditionally allowing Russia to invade and annex its territory is surrender. Period Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: That’s the pathetic excuse like Trumps claims about Canadian fentanyl. Ukraine in NATO was never a serious or imminent prospect, could he addressed through diplomacy anyways and invading and doesn’t justify invading and annexing Ukrainian territory anyways. In fact it only justifies Ukraine in NATO. You know, Germans had legitimate complaints against the European powers after WW1 but only a gullible stooge would try to claim those justified the rise of Hitler and WW2 or that addressing those complaints were all Hitler was trying to accomplish All you do here is lie ffs. Biden was talking about Ukraine joining NATO ever since he was VP under Obama. The whole reason that Biden was spending so much time in Ukraine as VP was to "rid Ukraine of corruption so that they could join NATO". Then the US started unilaterally firing and hiring prosecutors (to the delight of Hunter's boss), deciding who could and couldn't run for president (Tory Nuland audio tapes), and inciting/supporting/prolonging anti-gov't protests in Ukraine (Euromaidan), and no doubt "colluding to influence elections" *shudder*. Quote If Russia had never invaded in the first place Ukraine in NATO probably wouldn’t have happened. Well, Biden's quote over the pst 16 years prove you wrong, so... Quote And since NATO is a defensive alliance They're pretty aggressive about expansion for a "defensive alliance", don't ya think? Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
I am Groot Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 19 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Bullshit. Russia came to peace talks constantly, staring right in the first month. What did they always demand? Say it... Total surrender. 19 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Why can't you just admit that his presidency was an abysmal failure? I don't give a damn about Biden. He's gone. Nothing he does matters. You can't defend Trump's stupidity by demanding I acknowledge Biden failed. 19 hours ago, WestCanMan said: Why can't you see peace as a victory? I noticed you cut out the answer I gave to this. It's not a victory if all it does is give Russia the time to reorganize and rearm and for Ukraine to soften its defenses and send soldiers back to their regular jobs so Russia can attack again. Russia's word on a peace treaty is about as worthless as Trump's name on a free trade treaty. So without someone guaranteeing Russia doesn't attack again there can't be peace. And he has rejected the idea and even demanded Ukraine disarm. 10 hours ago, gatomontes99 said: Isn't it interesting how the party of peace and love is now the party of perpetual war machine and hatred? I find it interesting that the party of Patriotism, love of the military, and opposition to Russia is now the party of peaceniks who want to slash the military budget by half and give the Russians anything they ask for. Quote
I am Groot Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 6 hours ago, WestCanMan said: If Russia completely caved, Ukraine would be in NATO, and Russia would be backed against the wall. What does that even mean? That NATO would then threaten Russia? No sane person believes the disparate group of countries in NATO, especially given how bad their equipment was/is would invade Russia. Quote
WestCanMan Posted February 22 Report Posted February 22 21 minutes ago, I am Groot said: Total surrender. Lol. Quote I don't give a damn about Biden. He's gone. Nothing he does matters. You can't defend Trump's stupidity by demanding I acknowledge Biden failed. OMG dude. Read this and commit it to memory: During BIDEN's presidency: The war started $300B spent by the US on the Ukraine war tens of thousands of lives lost and over a million people injured Ukraine lost 30,000 sq km of real estate During TRUMP's presidency: He's ending the war $0 spent by the US There will be almost no deaths by comparison Almost no change in Ukraine's land mass Groot: "BUT TRUMP!!!!!! OMG!!!!!" 🤣 There was a second war that started while Biden was president, and he couldn't get Hamas to release hostages for years. The day before Trump was inaugurated Hamas started giving back hostages. But "TRUMP!!! OMG OMG OMG!!! 😭" Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. "If it didn't come from CNN, it's heresy!" - leftist "intellectuals"
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