Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: but you need economic activity under these wartime conditions Canada doesn't have to buy from US production lines Canada for example makes Bell helicopters in Quebec there is military manufacturing all over Canada, it's just mostly for export to America Canada can buy that military hardware for Canada, and/or ship it to Ukraine you've got Chantier - Davie sitting there in Levy, Quebec Canada's oldest and largest shipbuilder and they literally have no orders from the RCN they built the MV Asterix supply ship, and that was it, that was only order from the GoC and Trudeau tried to cancel it, then he tried to throw Vice Admiral Norman in jail for trying to save the order Right, Canada must cancel all U.S. military procurements Apparently LCBO is cancelling all orders of U.S. booze. It’s not nothing. This will not push Canada into America. We know Canada will feel this. America will too. I also think it’s time to look at opening new trade deals with Britain, Commonwealth countries, etc. Cut America out of all deals. Amp up Anti-Americanism internationally to unprecedented levels. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 6 hours ago, blackbird said: I don't think you understand what Trump and his circle are doing. They don't believe in free trade. Free trade has been established between Canada and the U.S. for decades and supported by Conservative governments in Canada all along. Trump wants to throw all that out. He is not operating in a democratic manner. He is operating like an authoritarian even with his own country. It is frightening what he doing. Check out what he is doing with all his executive orders and with the aid of Musk, an unelected believer in Trump. There is far more to this than you realize. Established institutions such as Obamacare are threatened which could deprive millions of people of any health care. Foreign aid is being arbitrarily cut off in many departments and organizations which could threaten the lives and health of millions of people. Americans are simply getting what they asked for they want Reindustrialization by Reshoring they are watching China, Mexico & Canada rising while America has been hollowed out and they want it done fast, as to Americans, this is an emergency Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Right, Canada must cancel all U.S. military procurements Apparently LCBO is cancelling all orders of U.S. booze. It’s not nothing. This will not push Canada into America. We know Canada will feel this. America will too. I also think it’s time to look at opening new trade deals with Britain, Commonwealth countries, etc. Cut America out of all deals. Amp up Anti-Americanism internationally to unprecedented levels. any Canadian made military hardware in the inventory, just ship that to Ukraine guns, trucks, armoured vehicle, helicopters, whay have you then ramp up every Canadian production line to replace it all you can't build too much, any overages can just be shipped to Ukraine then whatever ships Canada can build immediately, RCN and Coast Guard, start building them make sure every shipyard in Canada is full capacity, building as much as it possibly can buy as much ammunition of any sort as you can from Canadian facilities, you can never have too much ammo most of the soldiers equipment is made in Canada, clothing, body armour, packs, sleeping bag, etc ramp all that production up to maximum output, ship the old kit to Ukraine, then replace it all National Mobilization ; raise the pay to a level where it will draw the unemployed youth to enlist expedite recruitment, wave the process that holds things up take everybody for now, just get them on base training, task the units to do nothing but training everybody is an instructor for the mobilization, call up the Supplementary Reserve any personnel who have left the forces in the last five years are subject to be called back Canadians are gung-ho for war ? Okay, give them what they are asking for Edited February 2 by Dougie93 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Americans are simply getting what they asked for they want Reindustrialization by Reshoring they are watching China, Mexico & Canada rising while America has been hollowed out and they want it done fast, as to Americans, this is an emergency This act of unjust belligerence will turn the tide of world opinion, not just Canadian, against all things American. It’s happening very fast. The retooling of the Canadian economy away from trade with America that results will be very interesting because a lot of Canadians are talking about no longer travelling to the U.S. for conferences and vacations. They’re looking at bailing of of US real estate and looking more closely at places like Portugal and Central American countries. They’re looking at new export markets and markets that produce similar products to the ones we import from the US. Interestingly, BC Indian chiefs are now talking pipelines to export our oil and natural gas. Also interesting is that Quebec seems to be softening to the idea of Energy East. Basically we ship oil to markets in Ontario, Quebec and the Maritimes. We refine it in Canada and provide cheap gas at Canadian pumps. Cut out the Yanks from access to our energy, including cobalt and and rare earth minerals used for EVs, defence, etc. Canadians are energized to act. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: This act of unjust belligerence will turn the tide of world opinion, not just Canadian, against all things American. It’s happening very fast. it hasn't stopped China China does everything China First, with plenty of belligerence if you want to join their Hegenomy, go ahead, enjoy Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Canadians are energized to act. it's a come as you are war it's too late to diversify now it's too late to build pipelines and refineries now you've got what you've got, there's not going to be any significant changes in the next four years basically it comes down to ; what can Canada buy from Canada, for Canada, right now, with what you've got ? if you just print money and hand it out, that will cause another inflation crisis you need to increase production to go with the increase in the money supply Edited February 2 by Dougie93 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: . I also think it’s time to look at opening new trade deals with Britain, Commonwealth countries, etc. everybody else is in the same boat you think Britain and Australia are going to allow you to dump into their markets ? get real, the UK is desperate for exports not imports Australia is Canada South, also trying to export their raw commodities, competing with you and Australia is totally dependant on America to defend them from China like I always point out ; the Commonwealth is NOT an alliance, it's just a culture club if you want massive exports right now you're going to have to go to China, on your knees with cap in hand Edited February 2 by Dougie93 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: it hasn't stopped China China does everything China First, with plenty of belligerence if you want to join their Hegenomy, go ahead, enjoy Well Canadians need to be aware of the ways in which Canada has been forced into compromising positions by the U.S. Canada was forced into a diplomatic crisis with China over the U.S.‘s attempted legal action against a Wuwei executive, resulting in the detainment in China of two Canadians on bogus charges of espionage, etc. Canadians need to understand the ways we are manipulated by BOTH China AND the U.S. The question is, do Canadians want to pay the financial costs of greater independence or do they want to capitulate to Trump’s economic pressure to cave in on unfair trade demands and maybe even become 51st state? I suggest that there are good reasons for Canada and the U.S. to seek a common market. There are good reasons to consider 51st state, but the belligerent tariff moves will likely push Canadians towards greater independence. Is that a good thing long term for both countries? Well, we’ve been there before. Does it make a virtue internationally of the Canadian way? Well, right now given Trudeau’s mismanagement and unpopularity, I’d say not so much, but all it takes is a new PM and the end of the Trump honeymoon bluster to change the dynamic radically. Trump is spending a lot of precious political capital on this gamble. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Well Canadians need to be aware of the ways in which Canada has been forced into compromising positions by the U.S. thinking that you are going to escape from America is delusional as soon as the war is over, Canada will go straight back to America it's only a question of fighting the war in the near term a structural realignment away from America long term, is not really an option like if America is going down ? Canada is going with them so careful what you wish for Edited February 2 by Dougie93 Quote
Aristides Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 28 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: it hasn't stopped China China does everything China First, with plenty of belligerence if you want to join their Hegenomy, go ahead, enjoy At least they haven't threatened us. Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: They aren't across-the-board tariffs like Trump's. That would be dumb. They're tariffs on specific products that we can easily replace, mostly made in Trumpland or in swing states. Like Florida orange juice - we can buy from California or Brazil. No they are not but...it makes the product more expensive tor the Americans to buy unless the manufacturer or industry decided to subsidize and sell for cheaper. Oh and you know California is in the US? LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: thinking that you are going to escape from America is delusional as soon as the war is over, Canada will go straight back to America it's only a question of fighting the war in the near term a structural realignment away from America long term, is not really an option like if America is going down ? Canada is going with them so careful what you wish for Well you know my opinions of the current Canadian government and my connections to the U.S. I’m fine with 51st state because I think Trump is basically right that we pay stupid amounts of money to maintain a separate country government that doesn’t even uphold Canada’s culture and defence. I know that the cost of increasing Canada’s independence is high. I’m not the guy that Trump needs to convince. The Canadian public isn’t on board with Trump, however, on the whole, which makes his attempt at seeking greater advantage over Canada costly for Americans, because it’s not just about trade agreements, it’s about public opinion and spending choices. People can reject the American brand. Oh, it won’t be obvious right away, but when there’s a flood of properties available in Florida and Arizona because Canadians are selling up, when no California wine is being sold in Canada, when tourism dollars in the U.S. start to evaporate, sure, Americans can mow each other’s lawns and Canadians can do the same, but the result of less trade and less business activity is less money and higher costs. Maybe that’s worth it to Americans. It might surprise Americans to realize how much Canadians are willing to sacrifice too. Sadly, the best way forward for both countries could end up lost in the nationalist fervour, but such fervour can be a powerful motivator. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Canadians need to understand the ways we are manipulated by BOTH China AND the U.S. Canada does it too Canada does it to smaller countries all the time Canada does this sort of thing in Haiti for example, Haiti is Quebec's garment sweatshop JTF2 aided the Americans in staging a coup de tat in Haiti Canadian mining companies are predatory the Canadians military was in Mali training troops which then staged a coup de tat 600 Canadian companies are employing slave labour in China Canada is providing funding to Islamic terrorists in Gaza Canada sells armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia used for crushing internal dissent CSIS has employed torture by proxy upon persons rendered to authoritarian regimes Trudeau did exactly what Trump is doing, in order to crush the Freedom Convoy declare a false state of emergency in order to get around the constitution Edited February 2 by Dougie93 Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Aristides said: At least they haven't threatened us. they have "police stations" on Canadian soil used to terrorize Chinese Canadians they kidnap Canadians in China and throw them in dungeons as hostages they fly their bombers in formation with the Russian bombers now against NORAD the Chinese slap unjustified tariffs on Canada as a routine while they are interfering in your elections the Chinese steal your IP with abandon the Chinese mafia is the biggest mafia in Canada by far acting as a proxy for Beijing, shipping all the fentanyl to Canada, very deliberatley the Chinese want to dump their electric vehicles into Canada, against your auto sector Edited February 2 by Dougie93 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: Canada does it too Canada does it to smaller countries all the time Canada does this sort of thing in Haiti for example, Haiti is Quebec's garment sweatshop Canadian mining companies are predatory the Canadians military was in Haiti training troops which then staged a coup de tat 600 Canadian companies are employing slave labour in China Canada is providing funding to Islamic terrorists in Gaza Canada sells armoured vehicle to Saudi Arabia used for crushing internal dissent CSIS has employed torture by proxy upon persons rendered to authoritarian regimes Trudeau did exactly what Trump is doing, in order to crush the Freedom Convoy declare a false state of emergency in order to get around the constitution Yes, Canada is America. That’s the reality that Canadians refuse to accept and that Trump is highlighting. The high and mighty Canadian “We’re not American” attitude is increasingly ridiculous, because the Canadian government only badmouths Canada’s roots and refuses to defend the country. Trump is basically saying, grow up and embrace reality. The problem is that there is actually a Canadian exceptionalism over things like healthcare, multiculturalism, and multilateralism. There’s the Loyalist history and there is actually a formidable military history in the world wars, the peacekeeping efforts, the peace between the Protestants and Catholics, the social cohesiveness and generally peaceful society. Canada is a less violent country than the U.S., and you’re right, we haven’t embraced the Second Amendment. Canada is still considered a viable third way by most Canadians and many people around the world. Trump has to recognize that Canadians want to retain some of these things because they do have appeal to many people. Look, Canadians and Europeans have that rejection of guns and embrace of socialized medicine in common, whether Americans like it or not. Using force against Canada to make it accept terms the Canadian public doesn’t support isn’t the way to seek economic union and greater opportunities through synergies in our economies. It just isn’t. Sure, it will energize Canadians out of necessity, but it’s too much stick and not enough carrot. Why should Canada embrace greater integration with America? Make the case. Or is it just about might is right empire? Is that a winning strategy for America? I don’t think it is because I believe that a well informed public, and information has a way of spreading, will always oppose tyranny and unfairness. That’s the appeal of democracy. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Well you know my opinions of the current Canadian government and my connections to the U.S. I’m fine with 51st state because I think Trump is basically right that we pay stupid amounts of money to maintain a separate country government that doesn’t even uphold Canada’s culture and defence. even as a dual citizen, I don't want the 51st State as an American, I don't want the Laurentian Elites reinforcing the Bicoastal Elites as a Canadian, I don't want to give up the British Crown in North America I won't fight Trump for Justin Trudeau and the Liberals but I will suffer hardship gladly, for the Regiment, Colours & Commander-in-Chief Elizabeth Windsor, heir & successors Nec Aspera Terrent 1 Quote
Legato Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 16 hours ago, eyeball said: What's your view on the job Trump is doing to keep guns from entering Canada? Cricket doesn't have goalposts. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: even as a dual citizen, I don't want the 51st State as an American, I don't want the Laurentian Elites reinforcing the Bicoastal Elites as a Canadian, I don't want to give up the British Crown in North America I won't fight Trump for Justin Trudeau and the Liberals but I will suffer hardship gladly, for the Regiment, Colours & Commander-in-Chief Elizabeth Windsor, heir & successors Nec Aspera Terrent Why? What do you like about how we do things differently in Canada than America? I’m talking policy, our system, our sovereign distinctions. Canadians need to answer this question and decide how much each of these distinctions mean to them. If these things mean a lot to Canadians, more than trading them away and simply accepting the American way of doing things, then pressuring Canadians into giving them up won’t work. Even as a U.S. state, Canadians would want to keep some of these things. The U.S. government should be explaining options that they would be willing to accept. The Canadian government should be laying out options that they think the Canadian public would accept and that the American public would accept. If it appears, after a full consideration of these options and referenda, that the public doesn’t support 51st state, then America becomes the belligerent oppressor if it simply imposes unfair trade policies because it can. It will not win Canadians over in the realm of ideas, making America that brand no one wants. Its products would be shunned. I do think the U.S. government underestimates Canadian public sentiments on these matters. And you’re right, America may not care and may do it all anyway. I just don’t think Canada will bend to what Trump thinks the U.S. should get. I think it will hurt both countries and force them further apart, squandering an opportunity for a strong economic union. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Yes, Canada is America. That’s the reality that Canadians refuse to accept and that Trump is highlighting. The high and mighty Canadian, “We’re not American” attitude is increasingly ridiculous, because the Canadian government only badmouths Canada’s roots and refuses to defend the country. Trump is basically saying, grow up and embrace reality. The problem is that there is actually a Canadian exceptionalism over things like healthcare, multiculturalism, and multilateralism. There’s the Loyalist history and ther is actually a formidable military history in the world wars, the peacekeeping efforts, the peace between the Protestants and Catholics, the social cohesiveness and generally peaceful society. Canada is a less violent country than the U.S., and your right, we haven’t embraced the Second Amendment. Canada is still considered a viable third way by most Canadians and many people around the world. Trump has to recognize that Canadians want to retain some of these things because they do have appeal to many people. Look, Canadians and Europeans have that rejection of guns and socialized medicine in common, whether Americans like it or not. Using force against Canada to make it accept terms the Canadian public doesn’t support isn’t the way to seek economic union and greater opportunities through synergies in our economies. It just isn’t. Sure, it will energize Canadians out of necessity, but it’s too much stick and not enough carrot. Why should Canada embrace greater integration with America? Make the case. Or is it just about might is right empire? Is that a winning strategy for America? this is the chance, right here, right now to overthrow the Post National State Loyalist counterrevolution against the Laurentian Elites never mind saying "we're not American" just stop saying "we're not British" British is not a place, British is not a race British is simply a system of governance called Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy founded by William III, Prince of Orange, whom was Dutch Victoria Hanover is Mother Canada, and she was German Charles Windsor is the King of Canada, and he is Greek now is the time ; to invoke the Vimy Myth Canadian Calvary upon Hill One Four Five across the sea Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: Why? What do you like about how we do things differently in Canada than America? it doesn't matter what I like or don't like it's not about the Government of Canada Canada is not a republic, I do not report to the Canadian public none the less I swore an oath before God Himself, hand on the King James Bible, beneath the laid up Colours at St. Andrews to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, heirs & successors unto death as necessary I made my bed, and now I must lie in it one never leaves the regiment, except feet first in a pine box Dileas Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: this is the chance, right here, right now to overthrow the Post National State Loyalist counterrevolution against the Laurentian Elites never mind saying "we're not American" just stop saying "we're not British" British is not a place, British is not a race British is simply a system of governance called Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy founded by William III, Prince of Orange, whom was Dutch Victoria Hanover is Mother Canada, and she was German Charles Windsor is the King of Canada, and he is Greek now is the time ; to invoke the Vimy Myth Canadian Calvary upon Hill One Four Five across the sea But do you think those are motivating factors for Canadians anymore? What are the motivating factors? What do Canadians actually want? Is it just sovereignty? What does that mean? I do think democracy matters. I value Canadian history and culture. I’m just not sure that’s what this is about even for Canadians. I guess we’ll find out. What constitutes winning? Is it mere economics? Maybe it is, but if it’s only about the money, that’s probably 51st state. Edited February 2 by Zeitgeist Quote
I am Groot Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 51 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: No they are not but...it makes the product more expensive tor the Americans to buy unless the manufacturer or industry decided to subsidize and sell for cheaper. Are you talking about out tariffs or theirs? I know their tariffs, which are across-the-board, will do this. The idea behind ours is to target appropriate imports. 51 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Oh and you know California is in the US? LOL The idea is to target industries in Trumpland. Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: But do you think those are motivating factors for Canadians anymore? well perhaps Pierre Poillievre might consider leading from the front is this the Conservative Party of Canada, or not ? what would Stephen Harper do ? 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: well perhaps Pierre Poillievre might consider leading from the front is this the Conservative Party of Canada, or not ? what would Stephen Harper do ? Yes Harper was the man. I don’t think Canadians appreciated him at the time. Trudeau beat him on the image front, but Poilievre would do well to play it smart like Harper. Substance over style. Be unapologetic about Canadian culture and institutions. Quote
Dougie93 Posted February 2 Report Posted February 2 15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I value Canadian history and culture. I’m just not sure that’s what this is about even for Canadians. the troops are completely demoralized from a radical leftist government running the country into ruin for a decade "White Supremacist Settler Colonial Genocide !" who would go over the top when the whistle blows, for that ? it's like when I talk to people on the street, they're not blaming Trump for this predicament they are blaming Trudeau now is the time to invoke the Loyalists of British North America lead from the front, and the troops will follow Ducimus 1 Quote
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