Canada Retaliates with it's Own Tariffs - Tit-for-tat isn't the answer

[betsy]

Actually, this border security is also good for us!

Surely folks, they won't just be looking for fentanyl?  Illegal guns, human trafficking, recreational drugs.....you think they'll let them go through borders just because they're not fentanyl? 😁

 

 

This move is good for both Canada and USA!   It should've happened many years ago - when Polievre was calling for imprivement at the borders.

[ExFlyer]

8 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Trudeau sweetened the pot and and agreed to these additonals:

fentanyl Czar
list cartels as terrorists
ensures 24/7 eyes on the border
launch a joint US/Canada strike force to combat organized crime,

 

Timer - 0:40
 

 

 

Bottom line....Trump got what he wanted....tighter control of the border by Canada and Canada pays for it LOL

No sweetening... coerced into it maybe, but Trudeau caved. just like Trump wanted LOL

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 1:31 PM, DUI_Offender said:

A quick Google search shows you all you need to know about the "border crisis" with fentanyl and illegals. It reminds me of the Weapons of Mass Destruction" inn Iraq lie.

Tens of thousands of kg of drugs are seized by CBSA at the border, every year - headed north. Thousands of guns too. And yes, tens of thousands of migrants have crossed it headed north.

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 2:00 PM, eyeball said:

The best solution is to jack the cost of our oil to the US up to 100%.

Then they'll stop buying it. Yes, it would cause a degree of economic dislocation in certain states, but only temporarily. It would cause considerably more problems up here.

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 2:19 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

The UK is still less than 10% Asian. One sees a lot of news about majority Asian constituencies but there are not that many of them.

They congregate in the large cities, which makes their numbers seem higher. And the numbers are rising each year because, just like here, their absurdly complex legal system can't seem to figure out how to deport people who are clearly phony refugees with no education or economic skills. Their numbers are impoverishing the UK. They fill public housing and prisons. More than half of violent crime in London is committed by blacks - almost all of them migrants or their kids.

[Aristides]

5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Then they'll stop buying it. Yes, it would cause a degree of economic dislocation in certain states, but only temporarily. It would cause considerably more problems up here.

100% is ridiculous but 25% is realistic. Who will they buy heavy oil from, Venezuela? Then how do they get it from tidewater to midwest refineries, there are no pipelines.

Edited February 4 by Aristides

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 4:23 PM, suds said:

appeasement:  the policy of giving in to a hostile power in an attempt to prevent trouble

I don't see the U.S. as a 'hostile power'. I see them as a 'pissed off' power. Security concerns have been a topic of debate between U.S. and Canadian leaders for decades now. So, how would you rate our present government when it comes to such things as border security, national security, defense spending, illegal immigration, maintaining integrity over our electoral process, or the defending/protecting of sovereignty over our arctic territories?  What realistic chance have we got defending our arctic against Russian or Chinese military aggression if we don't have the U.S. backing us? Or for that matter, what realistic chance has Denmark got against defending Greenland? Do you not see the pattern here? The U.S. is concerned about the national security of our country and arctic, Greenland, and the Panama Canal where the canal is run by a company with strong ties to the Chinaes government. And then there's the fentanyl problem where Canada 'is no longer just a simple producer of fentanyl but a global exporter'. I don't know about you but I'd give them a failing grade. For the last 4 years our government could have been preparing for the second Trump administration (knowing full well his ways of doing things), and what did they do? Nothing as far as I can see, or do you see things differently? Diplomacy is usually the best bet as an alternative to appeasement or trade wars. Unfortunately the diplomacy ship has sailed largely due in part to our own making. And to think if diplomacy was used on occasion (think Danielle Smith) you're labelled a traitor. Add to the mess we're in, a lame duck leader, and a prorogued Parliament. Ontario is calling for an election that we don't need but why waste a good emergency? In case a lot of Canadians don't realize it, anti-americanism is good for the Liberal Party and it's on a definite uptick. B.C. is calling for bans on certain U.S. exports but only from red states. Of course politics has nothing to do with any of this. We're left staring at mass layoffs, recession, market selloffs, and if our governments are going to start handing out money as I expect they will be (think covid) our debt is going to skyrocket likely bringing on another round of inflation. The only good thing about this is that it's going to take a while for things to take real damaging effect, and maybe will give us enough time to put those who know something about diplomacy back in charge. Your thoughts?

A paragraph is a group of sentences that are organized around a single topic. Paragraphs are used to structure writing and help readers understand the main points. 

[Aristides]

Seems tit-for-tat was the answer.

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 4:44 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Exactly.  Let’s not forget that the U.S. has pissed off a lot of countries over the decades.  There’s an argument to be made that Canada doesn’t need to spend money on the military because we shouldn’t be supporting America’s colonial wars.  I

And how much of a military would we need, being next to Russia, if the US wasn't just to our south?

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 7:16 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Right, so we can bypass America and trade directly with Mexico and China.

The one pipeline to the coast we have won't even handle a quarter of our oil and we still can't export gas.

[Chrissy1979]

53 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Whoa there....it seems to me that Trump got exactly what he asked for....more security at the southern and northern borders paid for by Canada and Mexico.

Sounds like a win for Trump to me LOL.  A simple threat of tariff and Canada and Mexico gave in (or got a one month reprieve).

What will the next threat be?

Trump got... exactly what was already offered last December. He also got a united Canada that no longer trusts the U.S. as an economic partner and that is actively looking for other markets to sell its resources because it doesn't trust the U.S. anymore.

Trudeau negotiated like a pro and didn't give up anything. He played Trump like a fiddle. 

And the best part is MAGA Canada has been exposed as pathetic, weak traitors who will now be embarrassed to show their face in public. And the Liberals will feast on Polievre in the next election. Win win win!

[I am Groot]

On 2/2/2025 at 8:59 PM, Zeitgeist said:

They are.  Biden maintained Trump’s China tariffs.  

Because since China was permitted to join the WTO it has consistently violated all of the agreements and requirements of that organization. It cheats at trade constantly, and does its best to not import anything other than raw materials or a few things it can't yet make, like advanced chips. And it steals the plans for everything foreign companies make and then lets its own companies use them to make competing goods.

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And how much of a military would we need, being next to Russia, if the US wasn't just to our south?

But you can’t really separate the U.S. from the equation. I’ve been a proponent of beefing up our military, and not just to meet our NATO commitments but to guarantee our sovereignty.  However, Canada doesn’t have as many enemies as the U.S.   We haven’t installed dictators in Iraq and Central or South America or sold opium in Asia to buy arms, or launched invasions based on spurious claims of weapons of mass destruction.  That’s not to say we shouldn’t support our allies.  We do.  Think of how we landed planes in 9/11 in Newfoundland and played an important role in Afghanistan, Bosnia, etc. Canada is in bed with the U.S. more than we like to admit. Nevertheless, the U.S. manipulates world affairs to ensure that it maintains the U.S. dollar as a the reserve currency and that resources are priced in it, an advantage we don’t have, partly because of our size and partly because we’re not part of the U.S. and haven’t played as many of those imperial games.  

Edited February 4 by Zeitgeist

[I am Groot]

On 2/3/2025 at 1:06 AM, August1991 said:

Trump is correct.

There are many trade barriers between Canadian provinces and  the US and Canada.

"Why can't we buy beer in New Brunswick and bring it to Ontario?"

 

Because Quebec, which has the largest barriers to trade with the other provinces, refuses to compromise and lower them. This makes the other provinces unwilling to lower their own barriers.

[I am Groot]

On 2/3/2025 at 9:40 AM, ExFlyer said:

Why?

The sell Canadian products, especially grocery items.

Walmart has been notorious for decades for undercutting domestic retailers and producers by importing goods from China. They even have a unit there whose task is to convince domestic suppliers to relocate production to China so they can supply their goods cheaper. Our society, both here and in the US, would be infinitely better off if Sam Walton had been strangled in infancy.

Edited February 4 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

23 hours ago, betsy said:

And.....what is this thing about a "bully?"  Excuse me?  😁

Trump, is not a bully!   You folks, are mis-using the term!

Trump has been a bully since childhood. Which is why they wound up sending him away to military school in hopes that would teach him some discipline. Unfortunately, that failed. His entire life history is replete with stories of his cruelty and bullying, be it of individuals when young, suppliers, women, employees, or now basically everyone and anyone who dares to disagree with him.

Edited February 4 by I am Groot

[Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, Chrissy1979 said:

Trump got... exactly what was already offered last December. He also got a united Canada that no longer trusts the U.S. as an economic partner and that is actively looking for other markets to sell its resources because it doesn't trust the U.S. anymore.

Trudeau negotiated like a pro and didn't give up anything. He played Trump like a fiddle. 

And the best part is MAGA Canada has been exposed as pathetic, weak traitors who will now be embarrassed to show their face in public. And the Liberals will feast on Polievre in the next election. Win win win!

Trump got gains from this trade game.  What did Canada get?  Also, a significant reason why Trump took a stick to Canada is the ridiculous woke-green mess that Trudeau has championed in the West, a mess that has shamed Canada and cost Canadians countless billions.  Trudeau must go.  The wake up call from this is that we must never make ourselves so vulnerable again, neither in trade nor militarily, unless we want to become de facto Puerto Rico, which Canada is now.  At least Puerto Rico uses the U.S. dollar.  Our currency is weak and we earn significantly less than Americans now.  We were in better economic shape than Americans a decade ago.  I wonder what changed?   

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, Barquentine said:

Yeah, 30 days so he can blackmail them again. He just moved the goalposts on Canada. Now he wants us to give American banks free rein. Yeah bring on those sub-primes!

Look, I understand the nationalistic pride in having big world-class banks. But looked at in an unemotional way, we'd be way better off without them. Our oligopolies, like banking, hold us back. The Canadian banking industry is extremely conservative, which means it's very difficult for small business and entrepreneurs to get financing. American banks are far readier to take a chance on these organizations. We also are subjected to among if not THE highest banking fees in the western world.

[Zeitgeist]

13 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Walmart has been notorious for decades for undercutting domestic retailers and producers by importing goods from China. They even have a unit there whose task is to convince domestic customers to relocate production to China so they can supply their goods cheaper. Our society, both here and in the US, would be infinitely better off if Sam Walton had been strangled in infancy.

Walmart is successful because it has cheap stuff.  It has cheap stuff because of cheap Chinese manufacturing and the economy of scale of Walmart being the biggest retail department store.  Amazon is successful for similar reasons.  Sadly the ma and pa stores suffered and the population doesn’t care.  Also, their national loyalty in a trade war likely won’t stop them from buying cheap stuff at Walmart, partly because we’ve let the cost of living in Canada climb too high through regulation and taxation.

We let ourselves become unproductive and indebted, which lowers wages and currency value, making us poorer.  Money talks, bullshit walks.  This is why Canadians should consider 51st state.  We need to be a lot more careful on debt, taxes, and regulations, because it weakens our bargaining position and economy overall.  

Edited February 4 by Zeitgeist

[I am Groot]

18 hours ago, Army Guy said:

That's not what this is about....It is about illegal immigration entering the US from Canada, ( not enough effort by canada to curtail it)and the illegal drug traffic, fentanyl once again not enough effort on our part to control or stop it...

Guy, the 40 odd pounds of fentanyl they've seized at their northern border is chump change compared to the twenty-one thousand pounds they've seized at their south. Then there's the people. A few thousand to the north, hundreds of thousands to the south.

Now let's look at it from the other direction. If we're at fault and need to improve then what about the Americans? Thousands and thousands of kg of narcotics are seized by CBSA at the border last year headed into Canada from the US. Not to mention thousands of firearms.

And as you know, migrants travel to the US just to come to our border and cross it. Tens of thousands did that all through Trump's first term and he couldn't have cared less. Biden signed the safe 3rd country agreement but I have a feeling the moment someone tells Trump about it he'll cancel it.

Why isn't the US doing better at stopping these drugs, guns and people from entering Canada? By his own reckoning, it's HIS responsibility.

 

[I am Groot]

18 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

You have lost the right to speak on loyalty. You are a traitor to your country and a coward.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous this kind of drivel makes you seem to other participants? 

18 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

the Mexicans offered to send their military to secure the border

presto, Trump drops the tariffs on Mexico, gives them a month to get their troops in place

Canada meanwhile ; will be tariffed into the worst recession since the Great Depression

thanks, Justin Trudeau

Point of order: Canada doesn't have any military it can send to secure the border.

[Zeitgeist]

The learning from this trade war is that economic power and strength trumps (pun intended) right and wrong in the hands of a self-interested strongman.  Canada must be ready for that at any time.  

[I am Groot]

16 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

give Trump a win FTW

 

The illusion of a win. Which is good enough for Trump.

[I am Groot]

15 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Lets get down to the root cause.

Trump does not hate Canadians....he hates Justin Trudeau. He has openly said so.

Trump pretty much dissed all other democratic world leaders he dealt with. The only ones he respects are the tough-guy dictators because he longs to be one of them.

[Zeitgeist]

35 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The one pipeline to the coast we have won't even handle a quarter of our oil and we still can't export gas.

I agree, and we don’t even consume our own oil and make our own gas out of it for domestic consumption.  We rely on Texas.  We can’t pump it east because of Quebec resistance. Well Quebec better realize that if we lose our independence, all the bilingual kowtowing to Laurentian elites and pouring money into Quebec ends immediately. Oh and the BC elders stopping BC pipelines can hand over their status cards to Washington.  This is why Canadians need to take a hard look at our “Canadian” federal government, which has not served our sovereignty or Canada’s interests.  

Edited February 4 by Zeitgeist