Aristides Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: while the Government of Canada buys billions of dollars worth of US military hardware ? you do realize that the Canadian military is totally reliant upon the Pentagon and American defence contractors ? in terms of buying from China, do you think Canadians are going to stop buying iPhones & Tesla's ? do you really think that Canadians are going to stop shopping at Walmart & Costco ? America is the global Hegemon everywhere you go, it's all integrated with America the whole world relies on selling to the American market everybody is America for all intents & purposes iPhones are made in China and so are many Teslas. I will never own a Tesla. Being reliant on US defence contractors is something that can change over time. It's a pity that BAE doesn't have a division here like Australia and we had to partner with LockMart to build the 26's. Quote
godzilla Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 $60 billion coming in from Mexico and Canada to John Thunes state. How Trump’s trade war could put John Thune in a very uncomfortable spot Quote
Black Dog Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 8 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Dougie has serve his nation, with distinction, he has sacrificed more than you could imagine...He has earned his right to be critical of this nation... He's crazier than a shithouse rat, man. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Aristides said: They have a lot of refineries that can't process their oil, they were built to use our heavy oil. Canada is not going to stop selling the oil to America and since Canada's unrefined heavy crude sells at a 20% discount Canada putting a 25% export tariff on the oil, is only a net 5% increase but I don't think Alberta is going to accept those terms from Ottawa ; National Energy Program 2.0 and since it is unconstitutional for Ottawa to put a tariff on Alberta Alberta will buy the oil, then sell it to the Americans without the tariff Quote
godzilla Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 9 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: while the Government of Canada buys billions of dollars worth of US military hardware ? you do realize that the Canadian military is totally reliant upon the Pentagon and American defence contractors ? in terms of buying from China, do you think Canadians are going to stop buying iPhones & Tesla's ? do you really think that Canadians are going to stop shopping at Walmart & Costco ? America is the global Hegemon everywhere you go, it's all integrated with America the whole world relies on selling to the American market everybody is America for all intents & purposes and this will now change. its ridiculous to think that the wave of some tariff law will suddenly stop the US economy from needing what many other countries produce that the US cannot or cannot do economically. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 4 minutes ago, Aristides said: iPhones are made in China and so are many Teslas. I will never own a Tesla. Being reliant on US defence contractors is something that can change over time. It's a pity that BAE doesn't have a division here like Australia and we had to partner with LockMart to build the 26's. BAE Systems is an American defence contractor too the second largest footprint for BAE Systems is in America Canada's largest defence contractor is American ; General Dynamics Quote
BeaverFever Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 27 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: America takes Canada's oil at a discount, then sells it at a 20% premium because Canada refuses to build pipelines and refineries at scale but America doesn't need Canada's oil, America can buy oil from all over the world, and refine it America has its own oil, which is higher quality and worth more than Canada's oil but more importantly, Canada cannot supply itself with its own oil Canada cannot supply eastern Canada with sufficient oil instead, eastern Canada relies on a pipeline which comes up from Texas so If Canada wants to get into an oil war with America it's actually America who could cut Canada off, not the other way round Canada’s oil industry is foreign owned and foreign controlled, mostly by Americans. They want cheap Canadian crude oil going to American refineries in polluted tax haven shit holes at the opposite end of the continent like like they have along Louisiana and Texas gulf coast and then selling it back to us at a premium. That’s what they want and they own the Alberta government so it’s what the Alberta government wants. This whole “America has enough oil” argument is also stupid. They’re not importing massive amounts of Canadian oil just to have a fun surplus that nobody uses. Plus Anyone who understands market basics understands that when you reduce supply, prices increase so even if somehow Canadian oil was just surplus, eliminating it will still jack up prices 3 Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 Less than 1% of US fentanyl seizures occur at the Canadian border. Our criminals simply can’t compete with their Mexican colleagues on price. Trump and Lutnick don’t seem to be aware of this. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, godzilla said: and this will now change. its ridiculous to think that the wave of some tariff law will suddenly stop the US economy from needing what many other countries produce that the US cannot or cannot do economically. it's not going to change, because every country in Europe & the Pacific relies on America to defend them from Russia and China Quote
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 Just now, Dougie93 said: it's not going to change, because every country in Europe & the Pacific relies on America to defend them from Russia and China With Trump I wouldn't count on the US defending anyone. The fact that the US can no longer be trusted will result in some significant changes in the way countries think about defence. That willl be a lasting legacy of MAGA that I'm not sure Americans will like. Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Canada’s oil industry is foreign owned and foreign controlled, mostly by Americans. They want cheap Canadian crude oil going to American refineries in polluted tax haven shit holes at the opposite end of the continent like like they have along Louisiana and Texas gulf coast and then selling it back to us at a premium. That’s what they want and they own the Alberta government so it’s what the Alberta government wants. This whole “America has enough oil” argument is also stupid. They’re not importing massive amounts of Canadian oil just to have a fun surplus that nobody uses. Plus Anyone who understands market basics understands that when you reduce supply, prices increase so even if somehow Canadian oil was just surplus, eliminating it will still jack up prices the idea that Canada is going to eliminate the oil is delusional Alberta is basically funding the rest of the Confederation with that oil there's not going to be an oil shortage since OPEC relies on that oil to fund themselves, they have to bring it to market and the Gulf Monarchies are all relying on America to defend them from Iran and Trump is buddies with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman who just said that Saudi Arabia is going to invest $600 billion in the USA Quote
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) We will never cut off oil to the US. Just put an export tax on it which will amount to the same thing for the American consumer. Difference being, our government collects the money instead of the Americans. Edited January 31 by Aristides Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, Aristides said: With Trump I wouldn't count on the US defending anyone. there's nobody else to turn to all the rest of the military forces in the Hegenomy lack the full spectrum of capabilities and logistics it's like in NATO, all the military's are basically the same they have some armoured vehicles, they have some fighter planes, they have some ships but it all designed to plug into the American military, which provides all the specialized capabilites and everybody relies on American logistics, America is a logistics superpower only the Americans are trained and equipped to fight the full spectrum war everybody else only provides basic capabilities at the tactical level even the British & French rely heavily on the Americans 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: We will never cut off oil to the US. Just put an export tax on it which will amount to the same thing for the American consumer. Difference being, our government collects the money instead of the Americans. again. I don't think Alberta will accept that Danielle Smith is already preparing for Alberta to buy the oil to get around the tariff if necessary Quote
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: there's nobody else to turn to all the rest of the military forces in the Hegenomy lack the full spectrum of capabilities and logistics it's like in NATO, all the military's are basically the same they have some armoured vehicles, they have some fighter planes, they have some ships but it all designed to plug into the American military, which provides all the specialized capabilites and everybody relies on American logistics, America is a logistics superpower only the Americans are trained and equipped to fight the full spectrum war everybody else only provides basic capabilities at the tactical level even the British & French rely heavily on the Americans again. I don't think Alberta will accept that Danielle Smith is already preparing for Alberta to buy the oil to get around the tariff if necessary They can no longer count on the US to turn up so they will have to change. Danielle Smith will have no say if the feds decide to do it. How will Alberta buying the oil change anything other than Alberta will have to eat the export tax and subsidize the American consumer. Edited January 31 by Aristides Quote
BeaverFever Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: the idea that Canada is going to eliminate the oil is delusional Alberta is basically funding the rest of the Confederation with that oil there's not going to be an oil shortage since OPEC relies on that oil to fund themselves, they have to bring it to market and the Gulf Monarchies are all relying on America to defend them from Iran and Trump is buddies with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman who just said that Saudi Arabia is going to invest $600 billion in the USA We’re not turning off the taps just charging more and even if they go to the middle east they’ll still pay more than they’re paying now Alberta doesn’t fund the country that’s a myth. Alberta produces only 15% of national GDP and the percentage of federal revenue generated in Alberta is similar. Alberta has a small population so their economic contribution is disproportionate but Albertans have mythologized this into believing they alone pay for everything. I guess when they can drop out of high school and make $100k a year driving a forklift math isn’t going to be their strong suit. Edited January 31 by BeaverFever Quote
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Aristides said: They can no longer count on the US to turn up so they will have to change. NATO is not a country, NATO is built entirely around America at the core for Europe to replace America with a military like the US military ? you're talking a generational project which would take decades because the European Union would have to become the United States of Europe, each country would have to give up its own mini military to build one big military a collection of identical small militaries is not going to add up to the US military there has to be specialization, everybody can't be doing the same job there would have to be one chain of command, you can't have a committee in command then you are talking about military production on a scale which Europe is not capable of right now you would have to build the infrastructure, and that would take many years I mean, just for Europe to build 100 nuclear submarines, that alone would take decades Quote
CdnFox Posted January 31 Author Report Posted January 31 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: We’re not turning off the taps just charging more and even if they go to the middle east they’ll still pay more than they’re paying now That's something the Americans forget. Our oil is already so discounted that even if they can source it from somewhere else they're going to pay a time more Worse, they're refineries are set up specifically to deal with Canadian Oil. The oil they get from the US from fracking and such is not compatible with the way that most of the refineries are already set up. They would have to retool from scratch at a great expense and time. So if our oil is costing a lot more that will show up directly at the pumps and that will severely honk off the people who represent trump's base Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, BeaverFever said: We’re not turning off the taps just charging more and even if they go to the middle east they’ll still pay more than they’re paying now Alberta doesn’t fund the country that’s a myth. Alberta produces only 15% of national GDP and the percentage of federal revenue generated in Alberta is similar. Alberta has a small population so their economic contribution is disproportionate but Albertans have mythologized this into believing they alone pay for everything. I guess when they can drop out of high school and make $100k a year driving a forklift math isn’t going to be their strong suit. well if you can sell it to Alberta then it's another weapon in the arsenal if you can't sell it to Alberta tho, I do see how they could get around it but I don't think it's going to have devastating effects, it's not going to amount to shock & awe it's not going to be like OPEC embargo in the 70's, when people were lining up for gas and the taps were running dry people freaked out on Jimmy Carter, but it didn't cause America to abandon Israel and unlike Carter, Trump is not running for reelection and in terms of paying more, the Republicans are aware that this will be the case Americans are always complaining about the price of gas going up, but it doesn't incite revolts the MAGA base is not going to abandon Trump because the price of gas goes up by so many cents and again, America can retaliate with the oil Canada is importing from Texas in the east you need something to hit so hard and so fast that Trump quickly decides its not worth the squeeze I don't think Canada is actually the linchpin of the tariff plan I do think this is retribution for Justin Trudeau and the Liberals behaving like a Democrat party proxy so is he really committed to a long war against Canada ? because at any moment he could say okay, Canada is cooperating, tariffs off and this brings us back to the nature of Canadian politicians are they really going to go for shock & awe ? because Doug Ford has already invoked that, then when Fox News was like ; orly ? he started backpedalling right away, "only as a last resort, we love America, let's be friends, blah blah blah" Edited January 31 by Dougie93 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 31 Author Report Posted January 31 5 hours ago, CrakHoBarbie said: Hold on..... I thought you were a far right maga buffoon who loves donald. Is the honeymoon over? I'm not responsible for your personal stupidity. I've never once indicated that I love Donald, in fact I have spoken out against some of his things many times. I said he was better than Kamala and I still believe that. But being better than someone doesn't mean good, and even if he was good that doesn't mean that everything he's going to do is going to be Beyond criticism. You tend to see people through your own bigotry and hatred and that has obviously LED you to a false conclusion. I have been quite consistent and clear that I consider trump to be a flawed individual who's only redeeming quality is that he was better than the other choice. I expect his term in office Basically much like last time, a decently strong performance but certainly nothing miraculous and I still believe that's going to be the case. But he's way off base with this and it's not going to have the effect that he was hoping for. And I don't just mean tariffs with Canada, but also his threats with Mexico and other allies including the threat of military intervention to seize Greenland in Panama. That will have a destabilizing effect that will have a very negative impact on the American economy and if a trade war does happen it's not going to go nearly as well for him as he thinks. And he has to remember that in a short time he's going to have midterms. And if the public gets honked off with him because inflation is going up because of a trade war and the democrats seize the house in the senate and sufficient numbers they will absolutely find something to impeach him on and this time they will win. So we'll see how this plays out. Right now he thinks that being a mega bully will get him the deals he wants, i don't think it's going to go that way for him. Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, Aristides said: Danielle Smith will have no say if the feds decide to do it. How will Alberta buying the oil change anything other than Alberta will have to eat the export tax and subsidize the American consumer. because its unconstitutional to put a tariff on Alberta so if Alberta buys the oil from the oil companies suddenly it's Alberta selling the oil to America the Feds can't tariff that oil because it would be Alberta's public property, which means Alberta sets the price the export tariff can only be imposed on the oil companies, Alberta purchasing the oil first overrules Ottawa in effect, Ottawa cannot impose tariffs on a province and Danielle Smith has already said she would do this, Alberta is already preparing to do it Edited January 31 by Dougie93 Quote
BeaverFever Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 3 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Less than 1% of US fentanyl seizures occur at the Canadian border. Our criminals simply can’t compete with their Mexican colleagues on price. Trump and Lutnick don’t seem to be aware of this. They don’t care about facts. it was never about Fentanyl or the border that’s just a flimsy smokescreen 1 Quote
CdnFox Posted January 31 Author Report Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: They don’t care about facts. it was never about Fentanyl or the border that’s just a flimsy smokescreen A smoke screen for what though. That's the question. He didn't just do it for the fun of it. There's a purpose behind this. It's possible that he was testing our reactions and resolve using the border as an excuse in anticipation of the upcoming renegotiation of the free trade agreement. There are other possibilities as well but he wants something and it's almost never what he's asking for initially Quote There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
BeaverFever Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: NATO is not a country, NATO is built entirely around America at the core for Europe to replace America with a military like the US military ? you're talking a generational project which would take decades because the European Union would have to become the United States of Europe, each country would have to give up its own mini military to build one big military a collection of identical small militaries is not going to add up to the US military there has to be specialization, everybody can't be doing the same job there would have to be one chain of command, you can't have a committee in command then you are talking about military production on a scale which Europe is not capable of right now you would have to build the infrastructure, and that would take many years I mean, just for Europe to build 100 nuclear submarines, that alone would take decades OTOH Europe would not need 100 nuclear submarines and doesn’t need to be a global power they are just defending the continent from eastern attack and possibly attack over the pole. Europe is not overly concerned about challenging China or North Korea or Venezuela or Cuba, and their interest in Middle Eastern adventurism is also limited. Even Iran only concerns them indirectly due to its alliance with Russia and the political fallout from any instability vis-vis Israel. Meanwhile Russia can’t even defeat Ukraine Quote
BeaverFever Posted January 31 Report Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, CdnFox said: A smoke screen for what though. That's the question. He didn't just do it for the fun of it. There's a purpose behind this. It's possible that he was testing our reactions and resolve using the border as an excuse in anticipation of the upcoming renegotiation of the free trade agreement. There are other possibilities as well but he wants something and it's almost never what he's asking for initially He wants to glorify himself by humbling other countries, thinking we will all come to him on our knees with offerings and concessions that he can show off as a testament to his greatness. He believes that being powerful means you must dominate and subjugate others. Simply being able to do so is not enough, you have to actually do it. Second Trump clearly doesn’t know or understand anything about economics and how trade works and neither do most of the unqualified sycophants he surrounds himself with so he probably does think that tariffs will somehow make America more prosperous Quote
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