Federal government not cooperating to rebuild Jasper housing

[blackbird]

Once again the Federal government is not moving ahead to help the Jasper fire victims rebuild their homes.

More land is required to build the homes on, but Parks Canada which is part of the Federal government is not helping.  They control the land around Jasper, but are stubbornly refusing to sit down with Alberta and give them a piece of land to build the houses on.  The money is there but the Federal government is not.  Meanwhile many of the victims who lost their homes sit in motels awaiting this to be resolved.

This is just another problem to add to the other attacks against the energy industry of Alberta.  It should be remembered Alberta contributes hundred of millions and billions over the years to the Federal government, much of which is used for equalization payments to Quebec.  The Rocky Mountains and Jasper National Park is huge.  Human existence will not take much land, but it is an essential for life.  Jasper is an important tourist destination as well and brings money in that benefits everyone through taxes and jobs.

[Black Dog]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Once again the Federal government is not moving ahead to help the Jasper fire victims rebuild their homes.

More land is required to build the homes on, but Parks Canada which is part of the Federal government is not helping.  They control the land around Jasper, but are stubbornly refusing to sit down with Alberta and give them a piece of land to build the houses on.  The money is there but the Federal government is not.  Meanwhile many of the victims who lost their homes sit in motels awaiting this to be resolved.

LOL this is complete horseshit of course.

The hold up is Danielle Smith's merry band of dipshits who have decreed only single family housing will be allowed, which means far fewer units than otherwise possible, which further exacerbates the existing housing shortage in Jasper and increases housing costs across the board.The municipality wants multifamily housing, which the UCP opposes for purely idealogical reasons.

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The Rocky Mountains and Jasper National Park is huge.  Human existence will not take much land, but it is an essential for life.  Jasper is an important tourist destination as well and brings money in that benefits everyone through taxes and jobs.

"People want to to come and see the pristine wilderness around Jasper so we need to destroy more of that wilderness to accommodate them!"

You people just aren't happy unless you're chopping down trees or poisoning rivers, aren't you?

Edited January 22 by Black Dog

[blackbird]

11 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

LOL this is complete horseshit of course.

Nonsense.  A few square kilometers expansion around the town is nothing out of the thousands of square kilometers of wilderness in that part of B.C.  Every town expands and needs a little more land periodically.  The amount of land needed is a drop in the bucket of what is available.  People have the right to have a single family residence if they so choose.  Apartments are not the same and not the best solution for families.  Parks Canada is just being their usual intransigent bureaucracy and protecting their own empire.  You are just being your usual argumentative self.

[Black Dog]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Nonsense.  A few square kilometers expansion around the town is nothing out of the thousands of square kilometers of wilderness in that part of B.C.  Every town expands and needs a little more land periodically.  The amount of land needed is a drop in the bucket of what is available. 

There's lots of land in the townsite already. Also Jasper isn't just any ordinary town, it's a national park which means it belongs to all of us.

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People have the right to have a single family residence if they so choose.

No they don't, that's not a right that exists.

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Apartments are not the same and not the best solution for families. 

Oh well, too bad, don't live in Jasper then, there's plenty of SFHs in Sherwood Park.

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Parks Canada is just being their usual intransigent bureaucracy and protecting their own empire.

The town itself doesn't want those restrictions, why do you big government conservatives think you can rule from on high?

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You are just being your usual argumentative self.

Nope, just correcting your bullshit.

Edited January 22 by Black Dog

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

People have the right to have a single family residence if they so choose.  Apartments are not the same and not the best solution for families. 

What about people who've decided apartments are a better solution for them? What about their right to choose?

[CdnFox]

52 minutes ago, eyeball said:

What about people who've decided apartments are a better solution for them? What about their right to choose?

The Feds said they don't get a choice either. They're not allowed to use the land

 

This is pretty typical of the liberals and the left. They're mismanagement of the park caused the town to burn down in the first place and now instead of helping the people to rebuild they want to dictate terms and how to live.

This is why the left must never be let to have power

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The Feds said they don't get a choice either. They're not allowed to use the land

It doesn't require new land just new density zoning.  I don't know about Alberta but this is how it works in BC and why.

Density zoning in British Columbia 

The Province of British Columbia has introduced legislation that increases density zoning.

The legislation requires local governments to update zoning bylaws to permit more housing options.

This includes allowing secondary suites, laneway homes, triplexes, and townhomes.

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

The Feds said they don't get a choice either. They're not allowed to use the land

The feds delegated land-use planning and development to the municipality.

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This is pretty typical of the liberals and the left. They're mismanagement of the park caused the town to burn down in the first place and now instead of helping the people to rebuild they want to dictate terms and how to live.

This is why the left must never be let to have power

The only people dictating what needs to be built and how people should live here are the conservative UCP you dummy. Of all your sad trolls this is one of the lowest energy ones I've seen. 

Edited January 22 by Black Dog

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

It doesn't require new land just new density zoning.  I don't know about Alberta but this is how it works in BC and why.

Density zoning in British Columbia 

The Province of British Columbia has introduced legislation that increases density zoning.

The legislation requires local governments to update zoning bylaws to permit more housing options.

This includes allowing secondary suites, laneway homes, triplexes, and townhomes.

That's not what i understand the issue is here.  Do you have a cite?

5 hours ago, Black Dog said:

The only people dictating what needs to be built and how people should live here are the conservative UCP you dummy. Of all your sad trolls this is one of the lowest energy ones I've seen. 

Ahhh no.  Once again, why not look it up.... and THEN comment. 

The feds are offering the land ONLY IF it's used precisely the way they want with alberta footing the tab. 

Edit, link didn't stick last time

Parks Canada works on interim housing for Jasper as Alberta minister criticizes delays | Globalnews.ca

Edited January 23 by CdnFox

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That's not what i understand the issue is here.  Do you have a cite?

The source Black Dog provided should suffice.

The land use policy changes focus on making rebuilding easier for Jasperites, rebuilding with wildfire in mind, increasing housing options, climate resilience and sustainability.

I'm assuming because Jasper is in a federal park that Alberta's municipal legislation doesn't apply there. In any case I suspect Alberta's municipal legislation is still behind the times and weighted in favour of NIMBY's for whom increasing housing options is usually verboten.  Naturally it's been turned into a left vs right issue - and all that really matters anymore. 

[CdnFox]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The source Black Dog provided should suffice.

Why would it. It's a source that's not relevant as I have proven with this horse that I provided. Unfortunately that doggy is once again barking up the wrong tree

 

28 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The land use policy changes focus on making rebuilding easier for Jasperites, rebuilding with wildfire in mind, increasing housing options, climate resilience and sustainability.

But it didn't as many in the Alberta Government are complaining as per my cite. 

29 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm assuming because Jasper is in a federal park that Alberta's municipal legislation doesn't apply there.

Exactly. The feds are responsible for the forest and it's management and it's land use. 

So the province met with them and said "here's what we need" 

And the feds have said "we'll only give you what we feel you should have, not what you need". 

 And hence my initial comments to the effect of it's pretty scummy of this woke left gov't who claims to be all about people to deliberately deny what the people say they need to get back to their lives after a fire that was as intense as it was due to the feds ignoring written reports earlier about the dangers if they didnt' take specific steps which they ignored. 

[Black Dog]

46 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Why would it. It's a source that's not relevant as I have proven with this horse that I provided. Unfortunately that doggy is once again barking up the wrong tree

You haven't provided any horses. Or sources for that matter. 

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So the province met with them and said "here's what we need" 

And the feds have said "we'll only give you what we feel you should have, not what you need". 

Quote

 

The Alberta government's promised funding is now hanging in the balance as the mountain town argues multi-unit buildings are needed to help the town's long-standing housing shortage. The province is requiring the funding be used to build detached, single-family homes.

"If we don't have a project that meets those requirements, then this money can't be spent," Jason Nixon, Alberta's minister of seniors, community and social services, told reporters Tuesday.

...

With more than 600 Jasper families without homes, competing visions over how the fire-ravaged town should move forward has led to an impasse between the province and the municipality, which is working alongside Parks Canada in the rebuild.

Given the limited space to build, Jasper officials have said that under the provincial plan, only 60 of the promised 250 homes could be built.

The municipality wants to pursue short-term housing as it develops permanent high-density units. It's a process that would take 18 to 24 months.

 

link

[eyeball]

54 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

It's a source that's not relevant as I have proven with this horse that I provided. 

But it didn't as many in the Alberta Government are complaining as per my cite.

You apparently provided a horse, but I don't see your cite. I'll have to take your word for it that the Alberta government is complaining.

54 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And hence my initial comments to the effect of it's pretty scummy of this woke left gov't who claims to be all about people to deliberately deny what the people say they need to get back to their lives after a fire that was as intense as it was due to the feds ignoring written reports earlier about the dangers if they didnt' take specific steps which they ignored

The specific steps everyone should have taken decades ago was to stop ignoring and denying the reality of AGW. Virtually every government has been scummy when it comes to that.

Eventually there'll be a day when you guys simply can't deny it anymore and if we're lucky we might finally see some action. Especially if you find a way to blame AGW on the left.

 

Edited January 22 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

You haven't provided any horses. Or sources for that matter. 

 

Weird, it didn't seem to stick. Once in a while the forum doesn't seem to like it when you try to put links in. Edited to include the link

But - amusingly Your link actually says precisely what i said was the case.  So thanks for that. 

The feds are not allowing the land to be used unless it's used the way they want.  Maybe when you burn people's town down through your own incompetence and sloth dont' tell people how they should build it back, just help. 

 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You apparently provided a horse, but I don't see your cite. I'll have to take your word for it that the Alberta government is complaining.

 

Didn't stick for some reason.  Still had the article up so i've gone and put it in. Once in a while the forum gets weird about links, i don't know why.  I'll get back to you on the horse. 

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The specific steps everyone should have taken decades ago was to stop ignoring and denying the reality of AGW. Virtually every government has been scummy when it comes to that.

Specific steps specific to this forest and that region of the forest which were identified as being a hazard in a written report only a few years before the event.  Sorry, you don't get to blow that off as "well gov'ts are all bad people i guess"

 

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Eventually there'll be a day when you guys simply can't deny it anymore and if we're lucky we might finally see some action. Especially if you find a way to blame AGW on the left.

We don't deny it now.  What is denied is that it's a crisis, becuase YOU sure as hell dont' think it is and neither does the feds or you'd  have taken it seriously over the last 10 years, and the 'action' will most likely be adaptation and possibly investment in new tech research to come up with real solutions.  Whereas you guys had the carbon tax and 13 billion dollar battery factories that are being closed already. 

But unlike you were' not going to lie to the people and pretend that we can fix everything if they just pay more for tax and food and a home and every other damn thing or that we can have nothing but electric cars within 5 years or the like 

You shouldn't have lied. Maybe people would still care. 

[herbie]

Oh FFS they won't give up more land in a National Park?

OMG what next, stop them drilling for oil and strip mining coal in National Parks too? Poor poor hard done by Alberta.
This is too stupid a complaint for even Danielle to whine about!

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, herbie said:

Oh FFS they won't give up more land in a National Park?

 

They will but only if everybody does exactly what they say. So it's not really an issue about giving stuff up in a national park. And they did manage to get the town burned down with their incompetence

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OMG what next, stop them drilling for oil and strip mining coal in National Parks too? Poor poor hard done by Alberta.

Yeah that's pretty much exactly the same as replacing people's homes after a disaster.

You know BBB is supposed to stand for 'build back better' and not 'build back broken" right?
 

[herbie]

Someone stupid enough to blame the govt for a forest fire is stupid enough to tell me that when my house burned down I could only rebuild somewhere else.

Could've faced like my Dad's cabin. They made the area into a park, he kept it under a grandfathering clause. It burnt down in the 1970s and that was it. It is a blank patch in the trees now. Banff & Jasper are in the same situation. A nice drawn out lobbying process with very limited chance of expansion.

Mr don't even know what a National Park is, but got an ill informed opinion on everything.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, herbie said:

Someone stupid enough to blame the govt for a forest fire is stupid enough to tell me that when my house burned down I could only rebuild somewhere else.

You literally blame the gov't and global warming for fires every day. 

A report was turned in saying that if they didn't get rid of the beetle kill and clean up the forest then if a fire started it would be far more intense and fast spreading and dangerous to the town. They received the report but took no actions. 

What kind of scumbag do you have to be in order to defend the gov't letting people be burned out of their homes?  What an unmitigated pr*ck you are. 

[Black Dog]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Weird, it didn't seem to stick. Once in a while the forum doesn't seem to like it when you try to put links in. Edited to include the link

But - amusingly Your link actually says precisely what i said was the case.  So thanks for that. 

From your own horse:

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Ifan Thomas, associate superintendent of Jasper National Park, said in an interview that expanding the town’s boundary was not needed to accommodate interim housing since there was enough space, provided there was a sufficient level of density.

As well, the municipality wants to maintain the character of the town, which would include maintaining the town boundary. Any expansion of the boundary would also require an act of Parliament, a process that would take time, and the parcels of land would still need to be serviced

So the province insists on an unnecessary grab of unserviced land and demands the town only build SFH (all against the wishes of the local community and likely for purely ideological reasons) somehow this is the fed's fault. lmao, sure.

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The feds are not allowing the land to be used unless it's used the way they want.  Maybe when you burn people's town down through your own incompetence and sloth dont' tell people how they should build it back, just help. 

Yeah that's the thing about owning something you can dictate how it's used.

 

Edited January 23 by Black Dog

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And the feds have said "we'll only give you what we feel you should have, not what you need". 

And from your cite...

Ifan Thomas, associate superintendent of Jasper National Park, said in an interview that expanding the town’s boundary was not needed to accommodate interim housing since there was enough space, provided there was a sufficient level of density.

Density would be the municipal governments responsibility who Alberta's provincial government is also pointing the finger at for the delays.

In any case I didn't see the sentence you put quotation marks around in you cite so maybe it's up your horse somewhere..

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And hence my initial comments to the effect of it's pretty scummy of this woke left gov't who claims to be all about people to deliberately deny what the people say they need to get back to their lives after a fire that was as intense as it was due to the feds ignoring written reports earlier about the dangers if they didnt' take specific steps which they ignored. 

Your initial comment was just an all too typical made up anal pluck, from your horse this time I guess, that typically shits on the left and blames it for everything wrong in the world.

It's what you do.

 

[CdnFox]

55 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

From your own horse:

So the province insists on an unnecessary grab of unserviced land and demands the town only build SFH (all against the wishes of the local community and likely for purely ideological reasons) somehow this is the fed's fault. lmao, sure.

 

 

No the province says we need this much space and this much housing. And the government says well we think if you did housing in a different way that was more expensive and comes with other challenges as density always does then we would be able to give you slightly less even though in the grand scheme of things we're talking about a tiny amount.

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Yeah that's the thing about owning something you can dictate how it's used.

Sure. Nobody said what they were doing was criminal. What I said is maybe it's not such a nice thing to do after you burn someone's house down through your negligence and inaction to quibble over the space that's needed to put things right.

And I kind of stand behind that position. The Liberal Government is acting like complete scumbags. It is absolutely their legal right to act like complete scumbags but we all know the reason they're doing it is Alberta will never vote for them and that makes them supreme scumbags

[NAME REMOVED]

12 hours ago, Black Dog said:

LOL this is complete horseshit of course.

The hold up is Danielle Smith's merry band of dipshits who have decreed only single family housing will be allowed, which means far fewer units than otherwise possible, which further exacerbates the existing housing shortage in Jasper and increases housing costs across the board.The municipality wants multifamily housing, which the UCP opposes for purely idealogical reasons.

"People want to to come and see the pristine wilderness around Jasper so we need to destroy more of that wilderness to accommodate them!"

You people just aren't happy unless you're chopping down trees or poisoning rivers, aren't you?

The people need to rise up, and push back against Danielle Smith in her efforts to destroy Alberta. I have always been a Corb Lund fan, and it is great to see him speaking out about the ridiculous coal mining projects the UCP wants to implement in the Crowsnest Pass area.. 

[CdnFox]

20 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

The people need to rise up, and push back against Danielle Smith in her efforts to destroy Alberta. 

Absolutely, demanding enough space to rebuild jasper was the last straw!

[cougar]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

Nonsense. 

Yes, nonsense and it is all yours.

There are dozens of excavators currently in Jasper clearing the burnt out properties.  Once the land is cleared it should be ready to get the infrastructure back in place.

The park , which is supposed to be a National park is already compromised by endless commercial traffic and pipelines.  That is not enough for you and you want more destruction.

As I told you before, fly south and join Trump and the rest. 

Edited January 23 by cougar