The Trump Effect: Germany's Chancellor is Talking to Putin Now

WestCanMan · November 15, 2024

In his evening address, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said German Chancellor Olaf Scholz's call with Vladimir Putin has opened "Pandora's box".
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Vladimir Putin spoke on the phone for an hour this afternoon, a German government source has said.
Scholz and the Russian president last spoke directly in December 2022, the government said.
He [Z] said the conversation between the two leaders undermined efforts to isolate the Russian leader.
"Now there may be other conversations, other calls. Just a lot of words," Zelenskyy said.
"And this is exactly what Putin has long wanted: It is extremely important for him to weaken his isolation."

It's clear that the time for peace is coming. The end of the Biden regime will be the end of the war in Russia, one way or other.

The Kremlin said Moscow was open to new peace talks and pointed to Putin's earlier proposal that Kyiv should cede territory and back off its plans to join NATO.

When the cat's away the mice will play, and the cat is coming back on Jan 20th. The war is ending, just like Trump said it would.

It will be interesting to see if Putin negotiates this peace before Trump gets into the WH. Maybe he wants to negotiate this with people other than Trump.

In Putin's favour: everyone will want to take the credit for ending this war, and they'll want to put their own name on any successful negotiations. I'm sure that Olaf Scholz will want a feather from this in his cap, as will Biden.

Once Trump gets into the WH there's 4 years to get this done, to Trump's satisfaction. I'm betting on a ceasefire before Christmas, followed by a binding peace agreement before Jan 20th.

Edited November 15, 2024 by WestCanMan

gatomontes99 · November 15, 2024

I really think we can establish peace if we can get the hot heads out of it. I do believe Putin feels threatened, even if it isn't true. So let's accommodate that. However, I would love to see Ukraine made whole in territory and property lost. That is probably to much to ask.
It should also be made clear that his actions prove we need an alliance against him.

WestCanMan · November 15, 2024

15 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

It should also be made clear that his actions prove we need an alliance against him.

What came first, the NATO alliance climbing onto his doorstep, or the egg?

Russia and the US have been playing wargames against each other for 80 years now.

Ask yourself: did the west really need a bullwark against Stalin back in the day? Was Stalin really all that likely to attack the west? Did Stalin have as much reason/right to feel like we might be about to attack Russia?

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, you just might want to think about those things from a different POV before you settle on a hard and fast opinion.

Re: Russia... Germany, Italy and Japan are the main enemies that America has ever faced, and they're all the best of friends now. Somehow Russia went from being our uncomfortable/unpopular ally to our worst enemy, and the NATO/W-Pact standoff is probably the main reason for that, if not the only one.

Edited November 15, 2024 by WestCanMan

robosmith · November 15, 2024

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What came first, the NATO alliance climbing onto his doorstep, or the egg?

Russia and the US have been playing wargames against each other for 80 years now.

Ask yourself: did the west really need a bullwark against Stalin back in the day? Was Stalin really all that likely to attack the west? Did Stalin have as much reason/right to feel like we might be about to attack Russia?

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, you just might want to think about those things from a different POV before you settle on a hard and fast opinion.

Re: Russia... Germany, Italy and Japan are the main enemies that America has ever faced, and they're all the best of friends now. Somehow Russia went from being our uncomfortable/unpopular ally to our worst enemy, and the NATO/W-Pact standoff is probably the main reason for that, if not the only one.

"Somehow" meaning you don't understand the seriousness of Russia invading a sovereign European nation.

Meanwhile Russia has always had NATO members on its border, but you buy their BULLSHIT that they just could not stand one more, which lead to TWO MORE.

Which NATO countries share borders with Russia?

Internationally recognized

Country	Land	More information
Norway	195.8 km (121.7 mi)	Norway–Russia border
Finland	1,271.8 km (790.3 mi)	Finland–Russia border
Estonia	324.8 km (201.8 mi)	Estonia–Russia border (border treaty not ratified)
Latvia	270.5 km (168.1 mi)	Latvia–Russia border

13 more rows

Borders of Russia - Wikipedia

image.png.62108937a58f494a671e640a5dff75f3.png

Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Borders_of_Russia

Et Tu Mr. Chamberlain?

NAME REMOVED · November 15, 2024

54 minutes ago, robosmith said:

"Somehow" meaning you don't understand the seriousness of Russia invading a sovereign European nation.

Meanwhile Russia has always had NATO members on its border, but you buy their BULLSHIT that they just could not stand one more, which lead to TWO MORE.

Which NATO countries share borders with Russia?

Internationally recognized

Country Land More information

Norway 195.8 km (121.7 mi) Norway–Russia border

Finland 1,271.8 km (790.3 mi) Finland–Russia border

Estonia 324.8 km (201.8 mi) Estonia–Russia border (border treaty not ratified)

Latvia 270.5 km (168.1 mi) Latvia–Russia border

13 more rows

Borders of Russia - Wikipedia

Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Borders_of_Russia

Et Tu Mr. Chamberlain?

WestKremlinMan has never been the sharpest tool in the shed.

WestCanMan · November 15, 2024

3 hours ago, robosmith said:

"Somehow" meaning you don't understand the seriousness of Russia invading a sovereign European nation.

Meanwhile Russia has always had NATO members on its border, but you buy their BULLSHIT that they just could not stand one more, which lead to TWO MORE.

Which NATO countries share borders with Russia?

Internationally recognized

Country Land More information

Norway 195.8 km (121.7 mi) Norway–Russia border

Finland 1,271.8 km (790.3 mi) Finland–Russia border

Estonia 324.8 km (201.8 mi) Estonia–Russia border (border treaty not ratified)

Latvia 270.5 km (168.1 mi) Latvia–Russia border

13 more rows

Borders of Russia - Wikipedia

Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Borders_of_Russia

Et Tu Mr. Chamberlain?

Wow. Nice try, dummy.

FYI Estonia and Latvia share 600km of border with Russia, plus Latvia shares 200km border with Belarus. 800km.

Ukraine's border with those two countries is over 3,000km. Belarus is surrounded by NATO on 3 sides if Ukraine joins NATO.

You don't understand all the differences between NATO in Ukraine and NATO in Estonia and Latvia because you're stupid/ignorant, but trust me, it's a big deal.

User · November 16, 2024

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Once Trump gets into the WH there's 4 years to get this done, to Trump's satisfaction. I'm betting on a ceasefire before Christmas, followed by a binding peace agreement before Jan 20th.

Yeah... sure. This was your last prediction:

"I have no doubt that the Ukraine war will end within a few days of Trump being elected"

The war is still going.

CdnFox · November 16, 2024

10 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

From Sky News:

In his evening address, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has said German Chancellor Olaf Scholz's call with Vladimir Putin has opened "Pandora's box".

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Vladimir Putin spoke on the phone for an hour this afternoon, a German government source has said.

Scholz and the Russian president last spoke directly in December 2022, the government said.

He [Z] said the conversation between the two leaders undermined efforts to isolate the Russian leader.

"Now there may be other conversations, other calls. Just a lot of words," Zelenskyy said.

"And this is exactly what Putin has long wanted: It is extremely important for him to weaken his isolation."

It's clear that the time for peace is coming. The end of the Biden regime will be the end of the war in Russia, one way or other.

The Kremlin said Moscow was open to new peace talks and pointed to Putin's earlier proposal that Kyiv should cede territory and back off its plans to join NATO.

When the cat's away the mice will play, and the cat is coming back on Jan 20th. The war is ending, just like Trump said it would.

It will be interesting to see if Putin negotiates this peace before Trump gets into the WH. Maybe he wants to negotiate this with people other than Trump.

In Putin's favour: everyone will want to take the credit for ending this war, and they'll want to put their own name on any successful negotiations. I'm sure that Olaf Scholz will want a feather from this in his cap, as will Biden.

Once Trump gets into the WH there's 4 years to get this done, to Trump's satisfaction. I'm betting on a ceasefire before Christmas, followed by a binding peace agreement before Jan 20th.

To be honest I think it's something even more serious. I don't think that the chancellor cares much about trump. But he's under extreme pressure to call snap elections in germany, which they haven't resolved yet. Listen various reasons his public may not support the continued war in Ukraine. And I suspect that's what Is driving him at the moment.

Which means it doesn't really matter what trump does or does not think, germany may be out either way. Unless oil prices come down and oil availability comes up in the short term, there could be problems with Germany's ongoing support.

myata · November 16, 2024

Aka war criminal under international arrest warrant, a brutal totalitarian dictator.

An effect indeed: objective and factual. The only question is, who you are? What are you standing for? What was that "liberty" about?

Well, you knew it, you knew all and you chose it. No excuses now. No explanations to the history. The record, set.

Edited November 16, 2024 by myata

CdnFox · November 16, 2024

23 minutes ago, myata said:

Aka war criminal under international arrest warrant, a brutal totalitarian dictator.

The german chancellor???? No he isn't you lunatic. You're about 80 years too late for that

What the hell have you been smoking

Edited November 16, 2024 by CdnFox

Nationalist · November 16, 2024

I don't think Trump will have the power to end this before he's inaugurated.

Scholz is trying to save his own a55 but I don't think he can end the war.

CdnFox · November 16, 2024

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I don't think Trump will have the power to end this before he's inaugurated.

Scholz is trying to save his own a55 but I don't think he can end the war.

Yeah. In fairness he's probably taking a look at the number of world leaders who have lost their position recently who backed ukraine. Well I think we can safely say that you crane isn't the number one issue in all of those cases there's no doubt that the costs surrounding it played a role. A number of world leaders have been set aside and he's probably thinking he won't do well in the next election and while this may not be the primary reason it's an anchor that holds him back.

And the fact is even if you support the war there comes a point where you have to say what are we getting for all this money we're spending? Does the war ever end? If this war continues for another 3 years and we keep paying for it are we any better off or are we in exactly the same position? What's the end game?

And the powers that be haven't put forward a very good argument. Big yell about democracy and such and protecting our allies and that's great, that keeps people motivated for a short Time. But at this point emotional appeals are only going to have so much impact. And you have to give people a better reason or some belief or hope that somehow all of this is worth it and there will be eventually a better ending if we continue.

There's no doubt that his problems are not mostly a result of Ukraine, but the war is turning out to be a little bit of a monkey on his back

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

11 hours ago, User said:

Yeah... sure. This was your last prediction:

"I have no doubt that the Ukraine war will end within a few days of Trump being elected"

The war is still going.

This was my last prediction, it's from the proxy war thread:

Quote

The war will end soon.

Maybe not as soon as it should - a lot of people will die in the next 50 70 days - but it has been going on for over 990 days now. 50 70 days is a blessing by comparison.

I just found out the inauguration isn't until the 20th of January.

I edited that post shortly after I wrote it because I had assumed that the inauguration would be close to 6th, the date of the last inauguration.

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

To be honest I think it's something even more serious. I don't think that the chancellor cares much about trump. But he's under extreme pressure to call snap elections in germany, which they haven't resolved yet. Listen various reasons his public may not support the continued war in Ukraine. And I suspect that's what Is driving him at the moment.

Which means it doesn't really matter what trump does or does not think, germany may be out either way. Unless oil prices come down and oil availability comes up in the short term, there could be problems with Germany's ongoing support.

The timing of this is not random.

There was zero progress made under Biden in the last two years - there wasn't even any talk of wanting to make progress towards peace - and then ten days after Trump was elected we find out that the Russian and German leaders were already talking to each other for the first time in 2 years.

There have been lots of reasons why Putin might have talked to a western leader in the past two years, but they didn't. All of the talk was about war, the need for more war, how awesome the war was going, and more foreign aid to fund the war.

Talk of peace from anyone other than Trump is new.

User · November 16, 2024

43 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I edited that post shortly after I wrote it because I had assumed that the inauguration would be close to 6th, the date of the last inauguration.

LOL, you mean you edited your prediction after it was wrong?

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

1 hour ago, User said:

LOL, you mean you edited your prediction after it was wrong?

No, I mean I edited my prediction right after I made it, because I thought that the inauguration would occur on approximately the 6th. I had no idea it was going to occur so much later than the 2020 inauguration.

Look at where it says the post was edited. There will be a date there, dummy.

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

1 hour ago, User said:

LOL, you mean you edited your prediction after it was wrong?

Like I said, dummy, there's a date when it was edited...

Posted Tuesday at 10:26 AM (edited)

On 11/12/2024 at 10:18 AM, User said:

Russia can end this war anytime they want to. They are the ones keeping it going.

The war will end soon.

Maybe not as soon as it should - a lot of people will die in the next 50 70 days - but it has been going on for over 990 days now. 50 70 days is a blessing by comparison.

I just found out the inauguration isn't until the 20th of January.

Edited Tuesday at 10:29 AM by WestCanMan

3 minutes after I posted it I edited it.

There are no doubt other places I predicted the Ukraine/Russia war will end. I have no doubt that Trump's election spells the very quick end of that war.

User · November 16, 2024

14 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

3 minutes after I posted it I edited it.

There are no doubt other places I predicted the Ukraine/Russia war will end. I have no doubt that Trump's election spells the very quick end of that war.

Yeah... that is still posted AFTER the election.

You made a prediction BEFORE this that was wrong.

You have yet to show me this other prediction you made bragging about being so right on.

Seriously man, your predictions are trash.

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

25 minutes ago, User said:

Yeah... that is still posted AFTER the election.

You made a prediction BEFORE this that was wrong.

You have yet to show me this other prediction you made bragging about being so right on.

Seriously man, your predictions are trash.

Find the prediction that you're talking about, User.

You just showed that you were wrong about this one, so why would I believe you about the other one?

I know that I never said "The war ABSOLUTELY WILL END the day after Trump is elected", but you can quite clearly see that the process of the war ending has started now, and that is because of Trump.

I'm not really gonna call that my prediction, here in this thread, because Trump has already predicted it, but the "war ending because of Trump's election" prediction still seems to be on pace.

If you want to take umbrage to a prediction I made earlier, then cite it with a link, because I'm obviously not taking your word on anything, considering what you just showed in this thread.

User · November 16, 2024

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

Find the prediction that you're talking about, User.

You just showed that you were wrong about this one, so why would I believe you about the other one?

I was not wrong on anything. I literally quoted you:

"I have no doubt that the Ukraine war will end within a few days of Trump being elected"

That is you being wrong.

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I know that I never said "The war ABSOLUTELY WILL END the day after Trump is elected", but you can quite clearly see that the process of the war ending has started now, and that is because of Trump.

No, you said:

"I have no doubt that the Ukraine war will end within a few days of Trump being elected"

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

14 minutes ago, User said:

I was not wrong on anything. I literally quoted you:

"I have no doubt that the Ukraine war will end within a few days of Trump being elected"

That is you being wrong.

No, you said:

"I have no doubt that the Ukraine war will end within a few days of Trump being elected"

And Trump was elected on the 5th/6th, and Putin had already talked to the Chancellor of Germany about ending the war by about the 12th? 13th?

What does that say to you, User? Coincidence?

Just remember that we're talking about a war that has been going on for almost 1,000 days now. About 995 or so.

And now this from Zelenski (from the same source as that earlier link):

I know that it's above you admit that the war talk has completely shifted from always being about 'more aid' to 'end the war', but it clearly has. What a difference an election makes.

User · November 16, 2024

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What does that say to you, User? Coincidence?

It tells me the war is still going and your prediction was wrong. You have yet to ever show me this other prediction you made that you insist shows how great you are at predictions.

You are 0/2 with me.

NAME REMOVED · November 16, 2024

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

This was my last prediction, it's from the proxy war thread:

I edited that post shortly after I wrote it because I had assumed that the inauguration would be close to 6th, the date of the last inauguration.

The last Presidential inauguration was January 20, 2001.

You must be thinking about the January 6 insurrection, WestKremlinMan.

WestCanMan · November 16, 2024

23 minutes ago, User said:

It tells me the war is still going and your prediction was wrong. You have yet to ever show me this other prediction you made that you insist shows how great you are at predictions.

No, it tells you that as soon as Trump got elected, the peace process started in earnest.

Quote

You are 0/2 with me.

Like I said, you're incapable of admitting the progress you see. I honestly don't give a shit about your opinion, for obvious reasons.

User · November 16, 2024

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

No, it tells you that as soon as Trump got elected, the peace process started in earnest.

That is not what you predicted and that isn't even what happened.

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Like I said, you're incapable of admitting the progress you see. I honestly don't give a shit about your opinion, for obvious reasons.

Progress? The discussion is not about progress, its about your bad prediction that you got wrong.

You need to admit to that.

It is not my opinion, it is a simple fact that you made a prediction, it was wrong.

You claimed to have made some other prediction about the war starting... you can't back that up.

0/2.