Young Canadians left jobless amid influx of cheap foreign workers

[I am Groot]

On 8/19/2024 at 8:30 AM, ExFlyer said:

Well said an very real.

The jobs are there band as I said and got down votes for, immigrants take the low paying jobs because young people seem, for whatever reason, think they are worth more,

Everyone needs a job. Unless they're from a rich family or the government will support them. There aren't that many rich families, and none of their children are looking for unskilled labour jobs. So if people won't take those low level jobs it suggest they're getting money from the government, or their parents continue to support their lazy asses.

I don't know what the rules are now. When I was much younger, if you said you couldn't get a job and applied for pogey they would check their records and send you to job interviews. They would also follow up with the interviews to see if you had showed up and had tried to get the job. If it seemed like you'd deliberately blown the interview you got no benefits. 

If we actually have a shortage of workers then Capitalism says it's up to employers to fight it out and lure employees with better wages and benefits. And not every employer will find the employees needed and will have to shut down. Such is life. Creative destruction guides employees and investment to higher productivity jobs. 

No need for floods of immigrants and foreign workers.

Edited August 20, 2024 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

On 8/19/2024 at 8:02 AM, Perspektiv said:

If you're inexperienced and my McDonald's branch pays 22 an hour. Competition in fast food, averages out at 15 an hour. I offer benefits, vacations that accumulate every year--to you this is exploitation. 

To an employer, 22 an hour to flip burgers in a market that typically pays you 15, is someone willing to pay top dollar for the very best employees.

I have a question. If you're paying so much more than other McDonald - and presumably other Tim Hortons/Harveys/Burger King/A&W, with better benefits, how is it they found workers and you could not?

[I am Groot]

22 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

No.

I decide by knowing what is actually going on and seeing what jobs there are.

I see help wanted signs in every store I go in to.

Why do I see none? Why do my friends, who have teenage/early twenties kids looking for work see none?

[I am Groot]

20 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Is shuffling papers . . . work?

Anything you get money for is work.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

I just don't see why such an employer would want to hire typically whiny Canadian youth, when they could hire someone who would take the job as seriously as you would a career.

I understand that employers want the best for the least That is why there are labour laws. Because society is not made better by letting employers do whatever they want. 

I do not believe that all Canadian youth are as you describe. I know some of them and they are most definitely not like that at all. You just have to find them. It's better for society that way. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I have a question. If you're paying so much more than other McDonald - and presumably other Tim Hortons/Harveys/Burger King/A&W, with better benefits, how is it they found workers and you could not?

I was using them as an example. 

Many fields were suffering from labor shortages, including my own. It didn't matter how much you paid. It was industry wide, for some lines of work. I deal with several job agencies, that span Canada. 

Some fields were forced to have massive sign on bonuses, just to retain bodies. Paying 40% more, providing incentives like company shares, just to entice someone to hopefully stay.

Of course, like many others, I simply increased my rates as much as 20% over time, to absorb the sharply increasing costs associated with doing business. Much of which being labor.

What am saying, is this wasn't sustainable. You will create unintended consequences. IE employers switching to temp workers only, no longer wanting the headache of permanent staff. Being short staffed. Burnout.

It created the demand for foreign workers. All am saying.

[I am Groot]

17 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

and frankly, I like the South Asian employees at Tim Horton's

they are super fast and super polite, they do a great job

You cannot use this as an all-encompassing statement on south Asian workers. The ones at an A&W I went to a few weeks back were so bad, so slow, so surly, the food so lukewarm and badly done I would never go there again. Another A&W I went to had two white kids, an older Chinese man, and a black girl. Fast, friendly service and good, hot food.

[I am Groot]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Of course, like many others, I simply increased my rates as much as 20% over time, to absorb the sharply increasing costs associated with doing business. Much of which being labor.

What am saying, is this wasn't sustainable. You will create unintended consequences. IE employers switching to temp workers only, no longer wanting the headache of permanent staff. Being short staffed. Burnout.

No. This is not an 'unintended consequence'. It is how Capitalism works. If there is a shortage of workers you have to keep increasing pay until you can find them, or find a way to use fewer workers. If this means increasing what you charge, so be it. All others in your industry will have to do the same. This means, naturally, fewer people will want the product from this industry. Some of the companies in your industry will have to go out of business. These will be the less efficient, less capable ones. An equilibrium will be reached where the industry can find enough workers to produce the goods for a sufficient number of buyers.

[ExFlyer]

34 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Why do I see none? Why do my friends, who have teenage/early twenties kids looking for work see none?

I have no idea why you do not see any. I see them everywhere.

One reason some do not get any work is that they submit, never follow up. Email applications and do not show up personally to confer with the employer. They do not knock on doors, just think all can be done electronically.

I come by this conclusion by talking with store and restaurant managers/owners. Some have said they have dozens of application bit never seen the applicants. As far as labour jobs, the companies I know say some apply but never show up at 6 AM or they show up one day and never come back.

[ExFlyer]

32 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

I understand that employers want the best for the least That is why there are labour laws. Because society is not made better by letting employers do whatever they want. 

I do not believe that all Canadian youth are as you describe. I know some of them and they are most definitely not like that at all. You just have to find them. It's better for society that way. 

I get the impression you think labour laws are being broken by stores/shops/restaurants or companies.

I would like to know what laws you think are being broken.

I would like to see evidence of this. I have not heard or read of any cases of this happening.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

I get the impression you think labour laws are being broken by stores/shops/restaurants or companies.

I would like to know what laws you think are being broken.

I would like to see evidence of this. I have not heard or read of any cases of this happening.

You need to read what I write more carefully.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

If there is a shortage of workers you have to keep increasing pay until you can find them

Or just look elsewhere (foreign workers, students with work visas, etc), and stabilize the rate you pay them to reasonable levels.

Same thing driving manufacturing of your fashionable clothing to places like Bangladesh, vs California, or Toronto. Capitalism, like you say.

There is only so much a small business can absorb and pass onto clients  before they start pushing business away.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

All others in your industry will have to do the same.

Many have hired foreign workers in droves because of this.

I have suppliers that are literally fully staffed with high skilled immigrants, after throwing in the towel at struggling to hire local.

Production levels are up, low turnover. 

Not sure what the incentive would be to go back.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Some of the companies in your industry will have to go out of business.

Many didn't, because they pivoted rapidly. 

Looked elsewhere for their hiring.

If you're an entrepreneur  you will be quick to find a solution that best supports your bottom line all while bringing the same standards to the table.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

An equilibrium will be reached where the industry can find enough workers to produce the goods for a sufficient number of buyers.

Or like I said, the high demand for foreign workers, will have the market flooded with people who will be happy to work at the rates locals scoffed at because they felt their value was higher than what the market set it at.

[Goddess]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I would have all Filipina nurses.

Just something to consider that I have learned from working with and following nurses and listening in on their conferences and meetings:

The first issue is that their nursing degrees do not always meet the requirements of N. American degrees.  There is often a high degree of "cultural" or "traditional" medicine that is not really scientific and can be downright harmful.  For this reason, I agree with programmes that test and examine them for competency and provide refresher-type courses before they work here.  I do not have a problem with foreign nurses working here, to be clear.

The second issue that's been brought up many times is that women (it's mainly women nurses) from these countries are very subservient.  Which might be good in some scenarios, but not in medicine.  Nurses are the ones who see patients many times during the day and will report small but important changes to the attending doctor.  Nurses are often the ones who catch the "errors" doctors make.  They have to be not afraid to confront a doctor with "Hey, did you MEAN to prescribe this overdose amount of this medication?" They have to be not afraid to challenge a doctor on a treatment he advises but that the attending nurse feels may not be appropriate or will be net harmful.

Nurses are a patient's best advocate.  In N. America, it's actually part of their oath.

If you knew how many nurses save patients from near-misses by doctors, you'd be flabbergasted.

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

In my town, we would have hardly any fast food outlets open if it weren’t for Filipino and South Asian immigrants. Our young people are either in the cities or their basements. They won’t do that work here. 

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Young Canadian workers stuck in a job like this, will often grumble, give bad service and just not be as efficient as a newcomer. The job is beneath many.

if I was a young man, I would move to Australia to join the Australian Army

the Australians are actively recruiting from the Canadian military now

Canada is becoming a frozen Communist shit hole like Venezuela North

this is not the Loyalist Canada that I grew up in anymore

this Anti-American Post National State puppet of the Chinese in Beijing

f*ck Canadian winter, I'd be happy to kick back on a beach in the South Pacific

[Dougie93]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Its hard to compete with this, especially considering their low pay.

I would assert that it is best to seek a life of adventure & romance

never mind such toiling in the food service industry

none the less, I greatly appreciate the efforts of the employees at Tim Horton's

because I am driver, I drive everywhere, I love my cars

so super fast, super polite staff at the drive thru is a great service to me

tho I am loyal customer,

it only comes down to Tim Horton's or McDonald's for breakfast on the fly with me & my wife

I would say that McDonald's coffee is better, but Tim Horton's drive thru is faster

[ExFlyer]

52 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

You need to read what I write more carefully.

I do, that is why I asked you the questions. ...several times. Making statements mean nothing so:

1. what laws you think are being broken.

2. like to see evidence of this.

I have not heard or read of any cases of this happening.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Goddess said:

The first issue is that their nursing degrees do not always meet the requirements of N. American degrees.

That is correct, along with the drugs they administer being vastly different in some cases.

We are used to acetaminophen, and ibuprofen, to name a couple. She's used to using Paracetamol which would be incorrect here.

With that said, she also worked in Hong Kong, which has standards much closer to the west.

22 minutes ago, Goddess said:

There is often a high degree of "cultural" or "traditional" medicine that is not really scientific and can be downright harmful. 

They have many "quack" doctors in the Philippines. 

But these are highly adaptable people, so when they take their crossover training, tend to do incredibly well as nurses or in the medical field in general. They come from highly military leaning countries, so discipline in such jobs is insanely strict.

I am not disputing the need to train them to our standards. Simply pointing to the high standard that some countries have, regarding such employees, which is why they are sought after, globally.

26 minutes ago, Goddess said:

"Hey, did you MEAN to prescribe this overdose amount of this medication?"

You clearly haven't met my wife o_O

I have yet to meet a Filipina woman who was highly educated, not come forward with high levels of competence.

If it is their responsibility to manage any forms of oversight, you best believe that making any mistake to them, would come with likely immediate dismissal, or serious punitive damages.

You would also understand the importance of reputation in that country.

My wife once made a mistake making a dish, and beat herself up over it for a long time.

There is just not a tolerance for incompetence, there.

Being submissive is not an opening for being incompetent, which is what you're describing.

35 minutes ago, Goddess said:

If you knew how many nurses save patients from near-misses by doctors, you'd be flabbergasted.

I married a nurse, and come from a family of nurses, surgeons and many other medical professionals. 

I had Filipino employees and co-workers. Hire someone competent, and the standard they will bring to the table is very high.

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I would say that McDonald's coffee is better, but Tim Horton's drive thru is faster

They definitely have efficiency down to a science at most spots.

[CdnFox]

38 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Just something to consider that I have learned from working with and following nurses and listening in on their conferences and meetings:

The first issue is that their nursing degrees do not always meet the requirements of N. American degrees.  There is often a high degree of "cultural" or "traditional" medicine that is not really scientific and can be downright harmful.  For this reason, I agree with programmes that test and examine them for competency and provide refresher-type courses before they work here.  I do not have a problem with foreign nurses working here, to be clear.

The second issue that's been brought up many times is that women (it's mainly women nurses) from these countries are very subservient.  Which might be good in some scenarios, but not in medicine.  Nurses are the ones who see patients many times during the day and will report small but important changes to the attending doctor.  Nurses are often the ones who catch the "errors" doctors make.  They have to be not afraid to confront a doctor with "Hey, did you MEAN to prescribe this overdose amount of this medication?" They have to be not afraid to challenge a doctor on a treatment he advises but that the attending nurse feels may not be appropriate or will be net harmful.

Nurses are a patient's best advocate.  In N. America, it's actually part of their oath.

If you knew how many nurses save patients from near-misses by doctors, you'd be flabbergasted.

 

Bc has a lot of Filipino nurses and i have to say they are absolutely top notch. 

But for quite a while there was a program where new Filipino nurses were paired up with ones who had come previously and were well established and who could help them learn the differences between 'home and here' not only as a medical professional but also culturally and such.  And it was quite effective. 

I don't know if they still do that. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

For years, I could get absolutely nobody to help me in my garden until I mentioned the problem to my Filipina cleaning lady. Next thing she starts a gardening business and my place never looked so good. Those jobs would not exist without her. 

[cannuck]

On 8/14/2024 at 4:30 PM, Goddess said:

The trucking industry is having big problems with a certain ethnic group, too.

Will repeat something I said some time ago.  About 20 years ago I had an HD tractor/trailer run out of safety inspection time while I was in ON.  Called my cousin (gravel trucks) to point me at a shop that wouldn't screw me over - so went to a Polish family in Hamilton.  Made a habit of stopping there for a visit each time in the area and on another trip a trailer safety timed out.  Went to their shop and was told they had 50 trucks to do and only 5 mechanics but if I wanted to do the inspection (I was designer and builder of that trailer) he would look over my shoulder and sign it off.   Came back on Sat AM to do the paper work and my friend said (in heavy Polish 2nd gen accent):  "Looking here, Mr. xxxx - feeftee deeferent trucks with feeftee differnet drivers, but on vun drivink license!"

20 years on things are far, far worse.  Ask anyone in Humboldt what the consequences can be.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

No.idea what you are taking about. Filipino are way better at customer service than South Asians.

oh I am a great admirer of the Filipinos

they are arguably the nicest, hardest working,  most upstanding immigrants of them all

I've honestly never had a quarrel with a Filipino in my entire life

but I have a great affinity for the South Asians as well, both Hindus and Sikhs

because they are so ultra conservative, oriented towards faith, family & freedom

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Bc has a lot of Filipino nurses and i have to say they are absolutely top notch. 

But for quite a while there was a program where new Filipino nurses were paired up with ones who had come previously and were well established and who could help them learn the differences between 'home and here' not only as a medical professional but also culturally and such.  And it was quite effective. 

I don't know if they still do that. 

That's a great idea.

[Goddess]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

oh I am a great admirer of the Filipinos

they are arguably the nicest, hardest working,  most upstanding immigrants of them all

I've honestly never had a quarrel with a Filipino in my entire life

but I have a great affinity for the South Asians as well, both Hindus and Sikhs

because they are so ultra conservative, oriented towards faith, family & freedom

I currently work with 2 Filipino women and there have been problems with them since Day 1.  (I'm not saying this is usual, I'm just sharing my experience.)  They both work under me.  I find them very catty, very over-emotional, very immature.  They are supposed to be "best friends" but they will throw each other under the bus whenever they need to.

There's a lot of crying at work 🙄

I have to walk on eggshells with them all the time and find that when they're asked to do things, they will only do it for a while and then stop and have to be prodded into doing it again.  They make the same mistakes over and over and over and I've sort of come to the conclusion that they don't' really give a shite about doing a good job.

 

[Dougie93]

16 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

They definitely have efficiency down to a science at most spots.

well I would rather dig trenches for the rain for the King in the infantry

than have to work in the food service industry

the drive thru at Tim Horton's or McDonald's is non stop

that's like the coal face of the 21st century

I could never stand that monotony

I need adventure to motivate me