The horrors of abortion which our governments support

[blackbird]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:57 PM, herbie said:

First it takes the ability to distinguish between a baby and a fetus.

Second it takes a lot of gall for a man to demand he rule on what a woman can do.

Third it takes a special kind of stupid to take moral opinions of someone who repeatedly espouses his Christianity but shows none of it at all.

I would not want to be in your shoes or the shoes of ExFlyer or Aristides.  You condone murder of pre-born babies and think it is nobody else's business.  You claim they are not human as an excuse. That is a tragic way of thinking and abhorrent.  Equally sad that you attack Christians for caring and opposing the killing of pre-born babies.  Are you a Catholic of some sort?  There are many who have no idea of what Biblical Christianity is all about.  There is no such thing as a Christian who does not accept the Bible.  The Bible teaches us that Jesus Christ is the Word, that is, the King James Bible 1611.  "1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2  The same was in the beginning with God. 3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. "  John 1:1-4 KJV  Jesus and the Bible are inseparable.  Since abortion is killing a person, it is contrary to the Bible.  There is no getting around it.

Edited August 14, 2024 by blackbird

[carepov]

Interesting discussion (mostly) so far.  I am sympathetic to both sides.

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Abortions should be legal, regardless of the reason as long as done within lawful time frames. 

There should be no judgement whatsoever in a woman choosing such a procedure.

Question for you Perspektiv:  At 12-13 weeks we can determine the sex of the "baby".  Is it OK to abort if you don't like the sex?

[User]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Convince you of what???

You think what you want...you are totally unimportant and not worth convincing of anything.

You just don't give up do you. 

I am so totally unimportant and not worth convincing of anything... yet here you are using your time to convince me of things. 

 

[herbie]

23 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You condone murder of pre-born babies

There you go again. Repeat the pre-born bullshit to convince your self that's real.

 

25 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Equally sad that you attack Christians for caring and opposing the killing of pre-born babies.  Are you a Catholic of some sort

Rinse and repeat. And follow up with the most ignorant statement a Christian can possibly make. The Circh that only recently opposed even birth control.
Quit your cult and join a real Christian church already.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

There you go again. Repeat the pre-born bullshit to convince your self that's real.

 

Rinse and repeat. And follow up with the most ignorant statement a Christian can possibly make. The Circh that only recently opposed even birth control.
Quit your cult and join a real Christian church already.

Do you consider yourself a Catholic?  Since you oppose and mock Bible-believing Christians, you should explain where you are coming from.  Certainly not the Bible where God recognizes the pre-born as persons.  You are in a dark place.  Sounds like some kind of death cult.

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, User said:

You just don't give up do you. 

I am so totally unimportant and not worth convincing of anything... yet here you are using your time to convince me of things. 

 

Give up what??

You seem to need stroking and keep coming back for more.

Don't like it? Stop responding.

Convince who of what??? I think you are overestimating the worth of your opinion LOL

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Decades ago, someone reported seeing a naked fetus which was aborted and put in a bowl on a shelf where it was struggling to breath while it was dying

Precisely why we have medical standards. These must evolve with the times, along with women's rights.

42 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Don't tell be they don't feel pain. 

They do at a certain point. There is no doubt about this. However, it's been medically proven prior to a certain point, that they do not.

You're free to debunk this, but without medical data and proven research aren't really speaking factually.

You've sort of casually avoided putting any mention to the age of the fetus, along with more information like where this happened and more context.

45 minutes ago, blackbird said:

We live in a very barbaric society.  

We do. Abortion rights avoid unnecessarily painful and dangerous procedures, by giving women in need of one, access to clinics and doctors who would put her in the best possible hands.

47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

A day of judgment is coming in which God will judge all evil doers who would not repent of their sins and accept our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Sounds barbaric. 

[User]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

So guilt trip them, into keeping the baby.

AKA manipulation or ignoring her rights and "gently" "guiding" her to the "correct" decision. 

You have essentially made it long winded, but long story short, you believe in showing women their decision is wrong, to "allow" them to correct it.

Thats probably the most toxic level of freedom I have seen.

Wait a minute... these are your arguments, not mine. Why exactly do you think they would feel any guilt? I don't understand your presumption here. 

Why would this be manipulation?

How is this ignoring any rights?

How does this guide someone into anything?

Why would showing a woman an ultrasound of her unborn child convince them they are wrong to get an abortion?

The only thing toxic here is the death cult you support. You want to make sure women are ignorant and don't have information so they will do what you want them to do. 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Someone who wishes to repress women's rights.

Just like you do! What is your point? We are not different here. 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Am confused as to what your end game is, so would best to make it clear. 

Why do you need to know my endgame to answer the question as to why YOU chose 24 weeks?

Are you really that afraid of your own reasoning? LOL

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Not really. If a woman does get pregnant and is adamant on termination, you're siding with letting her figure things out on her own, regarding termination if its made illegal. This can have deadly consequences for her.

Hey, that is her choice and no different than your position. Do you not care about the deadly consequences after 24 weeks?

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

In Canada? Cite please, along with exceptions where this is legally viable.

Is your position on 24 weeks only valid in Canada? Like, is there something different with unborn children in other countries?

You are just running away from the question, again. 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

You could judge women getting abortions all you want. 

I draw the line socially, to those pushing religious rhetoric in chiseling such rights away with her.

It was you who had a problem with what you supported... 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

You sort of correct your term papers prior to handing them in.

Having medical standards that factor in best time frames to terminate a pregnancy are there and I fail to see what is wrong with that, if based on sound medical data.

So, you don't really believe your own "mistakes happen" rhetoric. 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

As long as she meets legal requirements, I don't understand the issue.

Again, you were the one with the issue about sucking babies out... turns out you are just fine with that. 

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

It should be compulsory. Forcing it, is pushing your narrative onto these women. If she doesn't ask for it, isn't required to see it, I don't see how being punished for her lawful right to do something is anything but counterproductive. 

Its a punishment to show a woman an ultrasound image of her unborn child?

Wow. How is that a punishment? 

Might as well say it is a "punishment" to teach kids sexual education. How dare you force that information onto kids! 

What "narrative" is being pushed here by giving women more information on such an impactful decision they are making?

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't think most women getting abortions make any illusions to themselves about what they are doing.

They are removing a child growing inside of them.

Best to do so, prior to attachment, and safest timing for the woman and least complications for all involved.

Oh really... please elaborate, what exactly is it you think these women know about what they are doing?

So, you think your own kids were more than clumps of cells with no real significance before 24 weeks?

Hell, here you are again, making the argument for killing a 5 year old. Best to let mothers kill them young, before they get too attached to them as they get older. 

[User]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Give up what??

You seem to need stroking and keep coming back for more.

Don't like it? Stop responding.

Convince who of what??? I think you are overestimating the worth of your opinion LOL

LOL, what are still trying to convince me of? 

Why do you keep showing me how valuable I am to you to converse with?

 

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, User said:

LOL, what are still trying to convince me of? 

Why do you keep showing me how valuable I am to you to converse with?

 

Back for more?

That is what I asked you.... I have no need to convince you of anything....

Oh and you have no value LOL

Edited August 14, 2024 by ExFlyer

[User]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Back for more?

That is what I asked you.... I have no need to convince you of anything....

Oh and you have no value LOL

I am glad that you find engaging with me to be so valuable to you that you want to keep trying to convince me like you are. 

 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You condone murder of pre-born babies and think it is nobody else's business

Why is it your business? 

46 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Are you a Catholic of some sort?  

Why should religion matter? Shouldn't this be a logic issue?

26 minutes ago, carepov said:

At 12-13 weeks we can determine the sex of the "baby".  Is it OK to abort if you don't like the sex?

It would be nearly impossible to know if this is what pushed a parents decision, unless you're in a country in the world where such behavior is encouraged, typically with males being favored.

From my vantage point, if you really didn't want a child, and had it anyways, I would feel the abortion would be the best option vs subjecting that child to a likely lifetime of abuse. Kids don't ask to be born.

I don't think abortion being okay or not by me is relevant.

I think a woman should have the right to abort. I will not support laws that would pass judgment or make it harder for her to.

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Why should religion matter? Shouldn't this be a logic issue?

No, it has nothing to do with logic?  If you consider yourself an heathen from the jungles of Africa, then anything goes.

We are a supposed to be a more civilized society.

Your religion apparently doesn't teach you anything and has little or no regard for the Bible.  

That's your problem in a nutshell.  No amount of talk is going to change that.

Edited August 14, 2024 by blackbird

[herbie]

18 minutes ago, blackbird said:

mock Bible-believing Christians

Only those like you that fail to understand that when people were illiterate and uneducated many things were recorded as allegory so they could understand and thousands of years later take it literally.

And please quote the passages applying to the "pre-born".

[NAME REMOVED]

On 8/8/2024 at 1:46 PM, blackbird said:

Yes, I've known that for a long time.  I also know the reason for that.  

quote

In Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5—7), the Lord presents a word picture of two gates, one wide and one narrow. Jesus explains to His listeners that to see and participate in His coming kingdom a person must have true, inner righteousness and not simply an external adherence to a code of laws. The scribes and Pharisees were teaching a kind of works-based salvation, asserting that obedience to the law was how people could be right in the sight of God. Jesus counters that directly, saying poignantly that, unless a person’s righteousness surpassed that of the scribes and Pharisees, that person would not enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:20).

In Matthew 7:13–14 Jesus describes two gates: the wide gate—taken by many—that leads to destruction (Matthew 7:13); and the narrow gate—taken by few—that leads to life (Matthew 7:14). One gate is wide to accommodate the many who enter the way leading to destruction, while the other is narrow to represent the relatively few who seek life and find it. Jesus exhorts His listeners to enter through the narrow gate rather than attempting to enter through the broad gate.

The broad gate was the way advocated by those who were teaching falsehood (including the scribes and Pharisees). The broad gate was the appearance of righteousness but not actual righteousness. The scribes and Pharisees (and other false teachers and prophets) were teaching that a person could enter the kingdom of heaven simply based on either a relation to Abraham and Moses or by following the Law of Moses. Instead, Jesus advocated the narrow gate—this was the way to enter the kingdom. This narrow gate was the path of true righteousness. This kind of righteousness would cause people to see and glorify God rather than glorify the person doing the work (Matthew 5:16).   unquote

For the full article:

Why is the gate that leads to destruction wide (Matthew 7:13)? | GotQuestions.org

This same principle applies to other things as well.  The bottom line is never go by the majority.  They are not always right.

Would you just shut the hell up, with your bible verses. Nobody cares.

Seriously, dude. Find a Christian forum to post on, and stop annoying everyone with your draconian views.

 

Edited August 14, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, herbie said:

Only those like you that fail to understand that when people were illiterate and uneducated many things were recorded as allegory so they could understand and thousands of years later take it literally.

Nonsense.  God recognizes the pre-born as humans from the moment of conception.  Doesn't matter when those parts of Bible were originally written down.  Time does not change that.

"5  Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. "  Jeremiah 1:5 KJV

"5  As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all."  Ecclesiastes 11:5  KJV

"16  Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. "  Psalm 139:16 KJV

" 41  And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:"  Luke 1:41  KJV

Edited August 14, 2024 by blackbird

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Would you just shut the hell up, with your bible verses. Nobody cares.

Seriously, dude. Find a Christian forum to post on, and stop annoying everyone with your draconian views.

 

Tough.  This is not Communist China or North Korea.  We have freedom of religion and freedom speech.  What are you doing here in Canada if you don't believe in it?

[ExFlyer]

26 minutes ago, User said:

I am glad that you find engaging with me to be so valuable to you that you want to keep trying to convince me like you are. 

 

[User]

51 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Thanks for letting me know how much you value letting me know how I am making you feel. 

[User]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

Would you just shut the hell up, with your bible verses. Nobody cares.

Seriously, dude. Find a Christian forum to post on, and stop annoying everyone with your draconian views.

Would you just shut the hell up, with your bigotry?

Nobody cares. 

Seriously, dude. Find an Atheist forum to post on, and stop annoying everyone with your bigoted views on religion. 

[NAME REMOVED]

4 minutes ago, User said:

Would you just shut the hell up, with your bigotry?

Look up the definition of bigotry, fool.

4 minutes ago, User said:

Seriously, dude. Find an Atheist forum to post on, and stop annoying everyone with your bigoted views on religion. 

I'm not the one pushing religion and biblical quotes on the forum.

I'm not an atheist, BTW.

[Dougie93]

58 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Tough.  This is not Communist China or North Korea.  We have freedom of religion and freedom speech.  What are you doing here in Canada if you don't believe in it?

by the Constitution Act of 1982 ;

"whereas Canada is founded on principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law"

Deus ex machina

[User]

4 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Look up the definition of bigotry, fool.

Why?

4 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I'm not the one pushing religion and biblical quotes on the forum.

I'm not an atheist, BTW.

You certainly are pushing Atheism. If that is what you want, go find a board for that. 

 

[NAME REMOVED]

47 minutes ago, User said:

You certainly are pushing Atheism. If that is what you want, go find a board for that. 

 

lol..

So people who disagree with the idea that women have no right to their bodies, are by default, atheists? 

I think it would be fair, if you and all your family members had vasectomy all at once, so your kind can not taint the gene pool. 

[User]

3 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

lol..

So people who disagree with the idea that women have no right to their bodies, are by default, atheists? 

I think it would be fair, if you and all your family members had vasectomy all at once, so your kind can not taint the gene pool. 

LOL, was I responding to anything you said about women and their rights to their bodies? No. 

Are you worried about competition in whatever bottom feeding gene pool you are in?

Don't worry, you are safe there on your own.