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The horrors of abortion which our governments support


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8 minutes ago, User said:

LOL, was I responding to anything you said about women and their rights to their bodies? No. 

Does it matter? It's clear you choose the flying spaghetti monster, over Women making their own choices with their bodies. 

Edited by DUI_Offender
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1 hour ago, User said:

Thanks for letting me know how much you value letting me know how I am making you feel. 

Yup

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:
5 hours ago, blackbird said:

A day of judgment is coming in which God will judge all evil doers who would not repent of their sins and accept our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Sounds barbaric. 

Nothing barbaric about justice.  Do you think criminals should get away with their crimes?

The statement of faith for the Far Eastern Bible College says:

"5.  We believe that man was created in the image of God, but sinned through the fall of Adam, thereby incurring not only physical death but also spiritual death, which is separation from God and that all human beings are born with a sinful nature and become sinners in thought, word and deed. (Gen. 1:26-27, Rom. 3:19-20, 5:12, 6:23)

That means all human beings are under condemnation unless they repent and accept Christ as their Savior.

Edited by blackbird
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2 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Does it matter? It's clear you choose the flying spaghetti monster, over Women making their own choices with their bodies. 

Where have I made any religious-based arguments here?

The only thing clear is that you have no idea what you are talking about. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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8 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Instead of another boring back-to-back banter fight, I am going to play one of my all-time favorite rap tunes.

You could really change things up and actually admit you were wrong. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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5 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

I would,  but i like being honest. Im sprry to say, but you lack the intelligence to debate with me.

More like I have too much intelligence... 

If you were being honest, you would admit I was not making any religious-based arguments here. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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8 minutes ago, User said:

More like I have too much intelligence... 

If you were being honest, you would admit I was not making any religious-based arguments here. 

Im sorry. 

I wish you the best

 However,  it is beneath me to debate with you. Its not intellectually stimulating. 

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15 hours ago, blackbird said:

Do you think criminals should get away with their crimes?

In Canada, many actually do.

15 hours ago, blackbird said:

The statement of faith for the Far Eastern Bible College says

I mean no disrespect to you personally, but nobody debating here cares what it says in the Bible.

Your own argument will hold its weight based on the strength of it. Citing religious passages, does nothing to strengthen your argument, especially if research and dara pokes holes into it.

The Philippines has illegal divorce, based on religious belief. 

This is backwards thinking. It also ignores the unintended consequences of such policy.

Overpopulation is rampant in many God fearing countries, as many married couples fear using contraceptives. Again. Backwards thinking, and why in some of these countries, things like HIV are still a major issue.

Challenging religious beliefs that are antiquated, isn't a bad thing.

If your only defense is "God said so", it's a weak defense.

You should be able to quantify your words with data, evidence, logic and an awareness of whether applied solutions work or, based on demonstrable results. Not a belief in a higher power.

My wife prays for me sometimes. I am okay with this, as it gives her peace of mind.

I prefer taking control of my own life. I can pray for success, or use those clasped hands  to work, and build it on my own. 

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29 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Im sorry. 

I wish you the best

 However,  it is beneath me to debate with you. Its not intellectually stimulating. 

No worries, you were the one who jumped in here. Now you run away when called out. I hope you find that atheist forum you are looking for where no one will mention anything about religion and offend you.

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LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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On 8/14/2024 at 3:48 PM, Perspektiv said:

It would be nearly impossible to know if this is what pushed a parents decision, unless you're in a country in the world where such behavior is encouraged, typically with males being favored.

From my vantage point, if you really didn't want a child, and had it anyways, I would feel the abortion would be the best option vs subjecting that child to a likely lifetime of abuse. Kids don't ask to be born.

I don't think abortion being okay or not by me is relevant.

I think a woman should have the right to abort. I will not support laws that would pass judgment or make it harder for her to.

Thanks, it is a difficult question to answer and I don't blame you for dodging it.

First point: It is difficult to know if sex selection is taking place, however in some situations it is clear, for example:

-Girl born

-Abortion

-Abortion

-Boy born

Second point: There are other options than abortion or a lifetime of abuse.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

mean no disrespect to you personally, but nobody debating here cares what it says in the Bible.

I know you don't.  The fact is God uses the Bible to save lost souls.  Who am I to say who God might save by his grace through hearing the word.  You might not pay attention, but that is your choice.  Millions of people have been saved by God's grace through his written word.  I don't think you can speak for other people.

 

Edited by blackbird
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11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

The Philippines has illegal divorce, based on religious belief. 

I am not sure what you mean there.  I know the Catholic church does not recognize divorce, but they do give annulments, which is a declaration that the couple was never married.  That is a nonsensical declaration.  I don't agree with the RCC on that subject at all.  There is nothing in the Bible about annulments, no such thing.

People can get divorces in Canada in a court and under the Canadian laws.  The problem with the RC church is they scare people away from that.  They control marriage and divorce.  Not sure exactly what happens in the RC Church if someone ignores the RC church and gets a divorce in a court.  

Protestants do not have that kind of system of extreme control over people.  They marry people.  But most Protestant churches don't get involved in divorces.  That is more the individual person's business.

Protestant churches don't interfere with people using birth control.  I don't think it is considered a sin.  I am not aware of any prohibition in the Bible.  Prohibitions against divorce and birth control are things invented by the RC Church.

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36 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I know you don't.  The fact is God uses the Bible to save lost souls.  Who am I to say who God might save by his grace through hearing the word.  You might not pay attention, but that is your choice.  Millions of people have been saved by God's grace through his written word.  I don't think you can speak for other people.

 

1940's Alabama just called. They want their schtick back.

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1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

1940's Alabama just called. They want their schtick back.

Why are you still here? Shouldn't you be off hiding from religion somewhere else?

 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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7 hours ago, blackbird said:

 I know the Catholic church does not recognize divorce, but they do give annulments, which is a declaration that the couple was never married.  

An annulment, isn't a divorce. 

Its an incredibly expensive and lengthy process. Also, you're ignoring the extensive legal grounds one must prove to be admissible for this. 

IE you need to actually prove you were abused, fraud, and other legal reasons that justify the application. 

Neither of those reasons being lawful separation and the breakdown of your relationship. This would make you inadmissible.

If you did qualify, you would essentially be spending years, not months, proving your case.

This is legal, so you are talking thousands of US dollars. This is a developing country. If you're poor, tell me how one could afford such costs, when you're talking someone making something like 20 dollars a week at a " good" job like a McDonald's.

How is this not prohibitive?

If her partner is emotionally abusive, how can she legally separate from him? Or prove it without any doubt?

Legal separation (another much cheaper option) prohibits a person from remarriage. 

Want to buy property with a new partner? You will need your exes approval. 

He basically owns you. 

How is this advancing women's rights? 

You're pointing to the words that sound nice on paper, ignoring the realities.

This is backwards thinking.

Ever hear the terms, blinded by faith? Sometimes you need to look reality dead in the eye, in order to grow. This involves a mirror, an open mind, and several other other things, or you're wasting your time. 

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

Prohibitions against divorce and birth control are things invented by the RC Church.

So, religion has nothing to do with any of these problems, right? Its just how people poorly interpret religion, or use it to advance their own agendas?

Thats not common though, right?

Has nothing to do with a system that demands full adherence to its rules. How could that be possible?

If you haven't noticed, am being sarcastic.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

How is this advancing women's rights? 

You're pointing to the words that sound nice on paper, ignoring the realities.

This is backwards thinking.

Listen, I know the RC system is a dark oppressive system.  I oppose it completely.  The problems you describe would exist in RC countries.  Maybe you don't realize it but Biblical Christianity or Protestantism is entirely different.  This could be a long discussion, but might be necessary.  I could give you lots of information that you are probably not aware of.

Romanism is a dark system of control of everyone's life.  Control of marriage does affect women badly when they are in an abusive relationship.  There are a some Reformed Churches that try to control or stop people getting a divorce, but I strongly disagree with them.  In fact I attended one once for over 20 years.  I got into a major disagreement over the subject of divorce because I believe people should be free to divorce in a hopeless marriage where there is abuse.

But Protestant Churches that are Biblical don't stick their noses into that area and just leave it to the couples themselves do decide what to do.  Some Christians would be available for counseling if that would help a individual or couple. 

People need support, not condemnation and control.

You're talking to somebody who feels for people who are struggling in life and need some friendship and encouragement.  That is what I believe.  I know this sounds good in theory and is not always easy to do or implement.  But that is the way it should be.  People with differences should be able to at least sit down together over a coffee and discuss things peacefully.  We may have to agree to disagree about some things.

The darkest countries would be the countries that are predominately Roman Catholic.  Perhaps you should read about and study the Reformation.  That was a hundred years of struggle for some countries to break free of the RC church system and become Protestant.  They developed democracy and human rights.  The RC Church hated that and fought against Biblical Christianity for the past 500 years.   Actually they opposed Bible believers longer than that.  Bible believers were hunted down during the middle ages or dark ages and burned at the stake or tortured or imprisoned.  Some sects were annihilated.  They were considered as heretics.  That is why we had the Holy Roman Inquisition for four or five hundred years.  To eliminate the heretics.  You either towed the line or were punished or eliminated.  I have books and can point you to some that tell the truth about what things were like under the RC system.

I can understand why some people would oppose the RC Church on some subjects, but it is a mistake to support abortion because one opposes the oppression of the RC Church system.

Protestantism brought freedom and rights for people, but that does not mean they endorse anarchy or immorality such as abortion and other things.  The rights of people should be respected.  But there are certain things that just don't fit into the definition of rights.  Nobody is forced to hold a certain religious belief as in Romanism over the past 1,500 years.  But society has standards of right and wrong.  Liberalism believes immorality is an individual choice.  Liberalism is a rejection of many historic Judeo-Christian beliefs in the Bible.  But there are things that affect other people negatively and should not be supported.  Abortion is one of those things.  Pre-marital sex is another liberal thing that leads to trouble and also contributes to abortion.

 

Edited by blackbird
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8 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

FYP.

 

Make up your mind. Now you want to talk about religion?

 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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2 hours ago, blackbird said:

People need support, not condemnation and control.

Yet you oppose a woman to lawfully choose what she does with her body. Condemn it, even.

I don't like the idea of abortion. I don't believe in God, my wife does and quite fiercely. 

I do however to quote you, believe that people need for private matters, to have people butt out of their lives.

More importantly, them keeping their lives private, and not imposing them onto others as well.

I don't stick my nose where it doesn't belong. Main reason I can easily date someone of conflicting political and religious beliefs and be peaceful, along with having a woman do something I don't like such as abortion, but respect her right to, without passing judgment.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I can understand why some people would oppose the RC Church on some subjects, but it is a mistake to support abortion because one opposes the oppression of the RC Church system.

I don't support abortion. I support ones right to obtaining an abortion.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

But there are certain things that just don't fit into the definition of rights.  

Under your religious belief.

This is you imposing your beliefs onto others.

Unless of course, you could logically explain yourself, without religion.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Abortion is one of those things. 

What about war? Justified at times?

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Pre-marital sex is another liberal thing that leads to trouble and also contributes to abortion.

I have been married twice.

Had plenty of premarital sex inside and outside of marriage. This is antiquated.

I buy a car, I want to test drive it. 

I feel no remorse or morally unfit from this. I don't want to be stuck with a piece of s*** clunker car, any more than I want to be stuck with a woman who cries during sex due to a childhood of molestation.

Take routine STD screenings, make sure you're dealing with someone that is clean. Use contraceptives. Use protection. Have fun.

Unless you are seeking to become pregnant, don't discontinue their use.

Irresponsible sex, leads to abortion. Lack of education about sex. Cultural apprehension to to teaching kids that sticking your pee pee into her hoo haw can have disastrous consequences. From a baby you don't want, to Nestlé Crunch chocolate bar looking genitals, with crabs to match.

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6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Yet you oppose a woman to lawfully choose what she does with her body. Condemn it, even.

So do you. 

6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't like the idea of abortion.

Doesn't seem like it. You can't even agree on showing a woman an ultrasound because *GASP* she might choose not to get an abortion. 

You are against there being any shame... 

8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't support abortion. I support ones right to obtaining an abortion.

No you don't. 

 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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1 hour ago, User said:

So do you. 

I'm confused. How so?

1 hour ago, User said:

You are against there being any shame

Am confused by your stance. You feel women should have the right to abortion, but have no right to do so free of judgement, shame and pressure to reverse their shameful decision?

1 hour ago, User said:

No you don't. 

I reject your premise, that if you support the right to abortion, you must also support the right to murder ones own grown children, as long as sufficiently sedated. It defies logic.

 

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33 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I'm confused. How so?

Dod you already forget your 24 week thing?

34 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Am confused by your stance. You feel women should have the right to abortion, but have no right to do so free of judgement, shame and pressure to reverse their shameful decision?

That is your stance, not mine. But you are here saying you don't like abortion... but just not enough to care to do anything. 

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I reject your premise, that if you support the right to abortion, you must also support the right to murder ones own grown children, as long as sufficiently sedated. It defies logic.

That is not what I said. I was pointing out you don't support a woman's right to an abortion either. You support a very narrow timeframe and then oppose it. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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