Deluge Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 On 8/4/2024 at 1:01 AM, zzbulls said: It's a lot of evil in this world. I can understand abortion for rape and incense. "Rape" is so subjective, and incest is rare. Better to look at it on a case by case basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Glad we agree on a woman's right to choose. Oh, you agree that choice is BEFORE she creates a human life? Glad you have finally come around. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 33 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Sure, word it as you wish. It doesn't take away from the fact a woman should have the right to do so, within the framing of the law, if her reproductive rights are to be respected. How are you respecting a womans "reproductive rights" after 24 weeks? Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 22 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Morality is not a good metric to measure women's rights. Its subjective, vs accurate based on available data. Data is not a guide for what is right and wrong. Not sure if you understood what I already said about that. 23 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: How is abortion wrong, using anything but religion and morality? How do you measure this? How is it benefiting women to be forced to give birth? Morality? God? How do you measure such metrics? You still don't understand that God is the source of what is right and wrong and he has given us his word on it on the King James Bible. Since God is absolutely sovereign over his creation, we can look for no higher guide or source of what is right or wrong. Instead of just rejecting this out of hand, you need to meditate on it and consider it. Reason and logic could help but you need to investigate it. The Bible proves itself that it was written by men inspired by God. Try goggling reasons for believing the Bible. 29 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: So, you're telling me your belief in God, and anyone believing in God are superior human beings and more morally sound, correct? No, I never said a Bible believer is a "superior human being". Those are your words. Neither did I say we are "more morally sound". I did say that we need to believe the Bible that pre-born babies are human beings and we cannot kill them. There is no such thing as "reproductive rights" according to the Bible. It is purely an invention of fallen, evil human minds. 34 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: So how is this the best means of dictating what is medically right or wrong by medical standards? Medical standards sort of have to be right, based on trial and error. Data. We are talking about ending human life in the womb. The righteousness or wrongness of that has nothing to do with "medical standards". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 On 8/4/2024 at 9:16 AM, ExFlyer said: Tell that to the Israelis that have been killing women and children since 7 October but hey, you defend them habitually. I never condoned killing of women and children by either side. I also am concerned about the killing of innocent women and children. Hamas could have avoided that to begin with but they use Gaza as a base to attack civilians in Israel and don't seem willing to ever stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Its just opinion based. No, this is far more than opinion. If you study the Bible, you will learn that. "The Bible is none other than the voice of Him that sitteth upon the throne. Every book of it, every chapter of it, every verse of it, every syllable of it, every letter of it, is direct utterance of the Most High. The Bible (King James Version 1611) is none other than the Word of God, not some part of it more, some part of it less, but all alike the utterance of Him that sitteth upon the throne, faultless, unerring, supreme." -- The Dean Burgon Oath. Part of a sermon by Rev. Timothy Tow, now gone to be with the Lord. quote The delivery of the Ten Commandments was made on the top of Mount Sinai, over 7,000 feet above sea level. The whole process took forty days and forty nights, amidst thunder and lightning, fire and smoke, the blowing of trumpet and the voice of Almighty God speaking to men. Then God wrote the sentences of the Ten Commandments with His own finger over the two tablets, front and back. In the climax of the forty days and nights, rebellion to God’s promulgation of the Ten Commandments arose from the ground. The people had made a golden calf to substitute for Jehovah saying this was their god, whereupon Moses’ wrath was kindled. When he was confronted by this golden calf, he became so angry that he threw the two tablets of law to the ground. Symbolically, God’s Commandments were broken. The golden calf the children of Israel had made was ground into fine powder and mixed with water for Israel to drink, which was their punishment. Can puny man rebel against God’s Word with impunity? unquote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, blackbird said: I never condoned killing of women and children by either side. I also am concerned about the killing of innocent women and children. Hamas could have avoided that to begin with but they use Gaza as a base to attack civilians in Israel and don't seem willing to ever stop. Hey, you applaud Israel for the bombing....you just don't want to admit inn innocent women and children get killed yet you are anti abortion and are vehement about killing babies. Hypocrite!!! Israel has Gaza completely surrounded, no way in or ut yet apparently, according to Israel, Hamas is bombing them. How are they getting the weapons and rockets?? Israel allowing them in? LOL Even the Israeli people are protesting against Netenyahoo's campaign. It has been a one way war for 10 months now. So, use your friggen head, get it out of the bible and think about things. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 36 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Hey, you applaud Israel for the bombing....you just don't want to admit inn innocent women and children get killed yet you are anti abortion and are vehement about killing babies. Hypocrite!!! Israel has Gaza completely surrounded, no way in or ut yet apparently, according to Israel, Hamas is bombing them. How are they getting the weapons and rockets?? Israel allowing them in? LOL Even the Israeli people are protesting against Netenyahoo's campaign. It has been a one way war for 10 months now. So, use your friggen head, get it out of the bible and think about things. You're lying. I don't support killing innocent women and children and never have. I don't claim to be have the knowledge on what could or should be done in the middle east to have peace. You think you know all about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, blackbird said: You're lying. I don't support killing innocent women and children and never have. I don't claim to be have the knowledge on what could or should be done in the middle east to have peace. You think you know all about it. You are lying in biblical proportions. You are with the Israelis. You support their actions. You have always supported Israel and what they are doing in Gaza. Killing innocent women and children. You even argue for it that they are right. No one ever asked you what should or should not be done but regardless, you support the genocide and mass kiloings of Palestinians by the Israelis. Me, I never supported any side, just called out liars like you for supporting Israel ...and then being anti abortion because it kills children. F'n hypocrite. You F'n liar, hypocrite and genocide supporter. This has nothing to do wit your bible thumpin, it has everything to do with your horrible dishonest war mongering character. Against abortion because it is killing fetus but supporting genocide and bombing children]n. Edited August 12 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: You are lying in biblical proportions. You are with the Israelis. You support their actions. You have always supported Israel and what they are doing in Gaza. Killing innocent women and children. You even argue for it that they are right. No one ever asked you what should or should not be done but regardless, you support the genocide and mass kiloings of Palestinians by the Israelis. Me, I never supported any side, just called out liars like you for supporting Israel ...and then being anti abortion because it liks children. F'n hypocrite. You F'n liar, hypocrite and genocide supporter. I support Israel's right to defend itself and always have. But I don't favour civilians being killed. Never have. I don't know what the solution should be when Hamas hides behind civilians. You of course know it all. No sense talking to a madman. Your language speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) 13 minutes ago, blackbird said: I support Israel's right to defend itself and always have. But I don't favour civilians being killed. Never have. I don't know what the solution should be when Hamas hides behind civilians. You of course know it all. No sense talking to a madman. Your language speaks for itself. So, you do support Israel bombing Gaza for the past 10m months killing innocent women and children and men too. Israel has Gaza completely surrounded, no way in or out., Even prevents food and medical aid from getting in. What is Hamas fighting with... they cannot even throw toilet paper because Israel will not allow it in. What the F are you supporting? Daily Israeli bombing of defenceless women and children?? You are Anti abortion but support killing defenceless kids in Gaza is OK and Israel can bomb any time they want. You F' n closed minded 1diot!!! No sense talking to me because I have some thoughts, realistic thoughts?? Then stop , do not respond but, do not expect me to stop calling out your hypocritical BS. Edited August 12 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Hey, you applaud Israel for the bombing....you just don't want to admit inn innocent women and children get killed yet you are anti abortion and are vehement about killing babies. Hypocrite!!! Yes, innocent civilians die. This is due to the nature of fighting an enemy that hides among their people in close urban warfare. An enemy that has vowed to destroy Israel and kill as many as they can. That is not the same as supporting women killing their unborn babies because of the mere convenience of it. 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Israel has Gaza completely surrounded, no way in or ut yet apparently, according to Israel, Hamas is bombing them. How are they getting the weapons and rockets?? Years of stockpiling them in tunnels. It was only recently Israel took Rafah and was able to shut down the tunnels Hamas had there. 5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Even prevents food and medical aid from getting in. This is an outright lie. Seriously, I mean, just a blatant lie. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 OMG he's not talking about Israel's right to defend itself. He's talking about the constant hypocrisy of those claiming to be pro-life while caring more about a fetus than actual living children or by touting the death penalty in the next breath. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) 53 minutes ago, User said: Yes, innocent civilians die. T.... Years of stockpiling them in tunnels. It was only recently Israel took Rafah and was able to shut down the tunnels Hamas had there. This is an outright lie. Seriously, I mean, just a blatant lie. Look, even the Israeli people are demanding the warmongering Netanyahoo to quit but he will not. 10 months of constant bombing for what? Do you realistically believe hamas had stockpiled enough arms to continue? They have not sent rockets for months. They have not been able to defend for months but Israel keeps on. It is not a lie. Israel has prevented emergency supplies from getting into Gaza. International outrage and United Nations condemn them for not allowing food and medical supplies into Gaza https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-blocks-entry-food-and-aid-supplies-kills-starving-civilians-attempt-forcibly-displace-palestinians-northern-gaza-enar https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-protesters-block-aid-convoy-headed-gaza-2024-05-13/ https://www.refugeesinternational.org/reports-briefs/siege-and-starvation-how-israel-obstructs-aid-to-gaza/ And yes, this was about anti abortion where one person vehemently is against abortion but in other threads supports the killing going on by Israel against Palestinian civilians. That is the epitome of hypocrisy. It is OK on one hand but not OK on the other. One is on principal and the other is on....Oh,on principal too? LOL Edited August 12 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 7 hours ago, User said: Oh, you agree Yup, that she gets to legally chose if she has an abortion or not. 7 hours ago, User said: How are you respecting a womans "reproductive rights" By giving her the choice, to lawfully make. 7 hours ago, blackbird said: Data is not a guide for what is right and wrong. Speeding is wrong. Want proof? Use God, or data? Running red lights is wrong. Data or God? I don't understand how a medical decision should be judged by God, and not available data. 7 hours ago, blackbird said: I did say that we need to believe the Bible that pre-born babies are human beings and we cannot kill them. There are things in the Bible that aren't relevant socially any longer. Maintaining ones virginity? Irrelevant. Among many others. 5 hours ago, blackbird said: No, this is far more than opinion. How can you prove this? 4 hours ago, blackbird said: I don't claim to be have the knowledge on what could or should be done in the middle east to have peace. Ironically, the war is due to religious beliefs. One seeing themselves as superior to the other. Kind of sounds like the mindset you're pushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12 Report Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, User said: That is not the same as supporting women killing their unborn babies because of the mere convenience of it. "Killing is killing, except if I don't say so", basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: I don't understand how a medical decision should be judged by God, and not available data. What kind of data are you talking about? Killing pre-born babies is wrong. You talk about "data", but don't explain what you mean. Just claiming data justifies it is nonsensical. 19 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: There are things in the Bible that aren't relevant socially any longer Again you are talking in vague, obtuse language. The Bible prohibitions against murder, stealing, and other things are entirely relevant. The Bible is very relevant. I don't think you even know what the Bible is all about. 19 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Maintaining ones virginity? Irrelevant. Among many others. Another thing you are totally wrong about. Sex outside marriage between a man and woman is condemned in the Bible. It is called fornication. Of course it is wrong. You have no idea what you are talking about. What is "socially acceptable" is not necessarily acceptable to God as revealed in the Bible. Again, all sins are forgivable if one becomes a Bible-believing Christian. 19 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Edited August 12 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 12 Author Report Share Posted August 12 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Ironically, the war is due to religious beliefs. One seeing themselves as superior to the other. Kind of sounds like the mindset you're pushing. Sadly you don't have any real understanding of the world, religions, and what the Bible teaches. I can't teach you a course on history and religions and Christianity on a forum like this. All we can do is make short comments which really could never properly answer that kind of false claim. The Bible is a revelation from God given through the prophets and apostles. It came from the true God, which you reject. So how is it possible for you to understand this subject? I can tell you the ten commandments in Exodus and Deuteronomy include the command thou shalt have no other gods". Idolatry is condemned. The Bible tells how in the beginning in Genesis how Adam and Eve fell from a good relationship with God by eating the forbidden fruit. This rebellious fallen nature was then passed on to the whole human race. The world became a corrupt and fallen place. That is why we have many false religions. It has nothing to do with being superior to others. It is just a fact there is only one true God and all others are false gods and false religions. The fall of man is why the world is corrupt, has wars, disease, sickness, and death. That is why we have conflicts for various reasons including wars over religion, politics, land, Communism, Fascism and other ideologies. This is not the fault of God or Christianity. It is because the world is fallen and the human heart is now by nature evil and corrupt. That is about the best I can explain it in a nutshell. Edited August 12 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Look, even the Israeli people are demanding the warmongering Netanyahoo to quit but he will not. What polls are you looking at? The ones I have seen have been fairly consistent with 1/3 saying just right and 1/3 saying not enough. 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: 10 months of constant bombing for what? Do you realistically believe hamas had stockpiled enough arms to continue? They have not sent rockets for months. They have not been able to defend for months but Israel keeps on. For the surrender of Hamas. Israel keeps on until Hamas is defeated. 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: And yes, this was about anti abortion where one person vehemently is against abortion but in other threads supports the killing going on by Israel against Palestinian civilians. Israel is not purposefully trying to kill civilians. There is no comparison here between unintended war casualties in an urban war against an enemy like Hamas hiding and fighting behind their own people. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 45 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: Yup, that she gets to legally chose if she has an abortion or not. Not after your 24 week number. She has a choice BEFORE she gets pregnant. 43 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: "Killing is killing, except if I don't say so", basically. My position here has been quite consistent. Killing the unborn child for the mere convenience of it is wrong; it is a human life with a right to life. I am not a pacifist opposed to all killing. So, not sure what contradiction you think you are getting at here. 47 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: By giving her the choice, to lawfully make. Not after 24 weeks you don't. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted August 13 Author Report Share Posted August 13 (edited) 2 hours ago, Perspektiv said: Ironically, the war is due to religious beliefs. One seeing themselves as superior to the other. Kind of sounds like the mindset you're pushing. I don't believe I am pushing any kind of superiority belief system. Christianity is a belief in Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind. He came to earth to save lost sinners and give them eternal life. It has nothing to do with superiority. You must have some kind of very anti-Christian notions. That is no surprise. There is a spiritual war going on in the world between good and evil. The forces of darkness are trying to smear Christians and Christianity. It's all part of the opposition to the God of the Bible. Bible believing Christians are not the cause of all the wars in the world down through history. There are many causes. Yes, religion is one of them. The religion of peace was spread through the middle east and north Africa by the sword over the centuries. Rome also had some crusades that may have also used force to try to spread religion, but that is not biblical at all. Jesus did not advocate using force or the sword to spread the gospel. In fact, countless people through the centuries have been persecuted and martyred for spreading Christianity. You can read Foxe's Book of Martyrs online if you wish. There have been wars over many other things as well. Kingdoms conquering others to obtain more land. Then the biggest wars in history WW1 and WW2. Millions died in Russia and China under Communist revolutions. People should be able to share their beliefs peacefully. I share the gospel as I can because Jesus said to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Those that believe will be saved and those that don't will be lost. (my words). Exact words in the Bible. I don't think Christians see themselves as "superior". Edited August 13 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 10 hours ago, blackbird said: Killing pre-born babies is wrong. What makes it wrong prior to 24 weeks. A time frame proven medically to cause no suffering to the fetus? Try to answer without using God or religion. Logically, what makes it wrong? 10 hours ago, blackbird said: I don't think you even know what the Bible is all about. I don't care, would be the more operative word. While I respect your right to practice your religious freedom, I draw the line when people try to push their religious beliefs onto others. Especially if used to push for legal amendments to our existing laws. The beauty of freedom. 8 hours ago, blackbird said: I don't believe I am pushing any kind of superiority belief system. I know plenty of Christians, and they are all quite humble. My wife is God fearing, and is incredibly humble. You come across as pushing a superiority based on your belief system. Not them. 8 hours ago, blackbird said: Bible believing Christians are not the cause of all the wars in the world down through history. Correct, but some religious wars draw roots at conflicting religious beliefs. Many wars in history, can be attributed to Christianity. You can't ignore that history, even though you may want to. 8 hours ago, blackbird said: You must have some kind of very anti-Christian notions. Nope. I am pushing back on you pushing your religious beliefs onto others. I respect people's religious beliefs. Heck, I even go to church every Sunday with my wife. The respect is mutual. I don't push my beliefs, she doesn't push hers. Religion is a choice. You should keep your message in line with that, and just maybe, will see better results and reception. 8 hours ago, blackbird said: People should be able to share their beliefs peacefully. 100%. However, pushing your beliefs onto others, should be met with non violent push back where it is not wanted. Religion just like love, is a choice. 10 hours ago, blackbird said: This rebellious fallen nature was then passed on to the whole human race. Am a rebel by nature. I don't do obedience without questions. Any environment that doesn't encourage my questioning of things, isn't for me. Its also a major reason why thousands of churches are closing across North America. 9 hours ago, User said: Not after your 24 week number. Correct. Prior. Lawfully. 9 hours ago, User said: Killing the unborn child for the mere convenience So as long as you approve of the reasoning, women can have abortions. 9 hours ago, User said: Not after 24 weeks Your point? Abortion is legal here, and should be, being mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 (edited) 13 hours ago, User said: What polls are you looking at? The ones I have seen have been fairly consistent with 1/3 saying just right and 1/3 saying not enough. For the surrender of Hamas. Israel keeps on until Hamas is defeated. Israel is not purposefully trying to kill civilians. There is no comparison here between unintended war casualties in an urban war against an enemy like Hamas hiding and fighting behind their own people. No polls. NBC, MSNBC, PBS and other news sources. The comment was "Do you realistically believe hamas had stockpiled enough arms to continue? They have not sent rockets for months. They have not been able to defend for months but Israel keeps on. ", you forgot to address that . Nice try deflecting the questions LOL Yeah sure but if they kill innocent women and children in hospitals and schools and refugee camps. it's OK? There is no "urban war". They are not combing the streets and shooting and killing the enemy. It is rockets and bombs from afar. I don't defend an of the shit that goes on over there, just being devils advocate against the single minded Edited August 13 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: No polls. NBC, MSNBC, PBS and other news sources. So... how do you presume to say how many Israelis want the warmonger to quit? Or were you only speaking for the minority? 9 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: The comment was "Do you realistically believe hamas had stockpiled enough arms to continue? They have not sent rockets for months. They have not been able to defend for months but Israel keeps on. ", you forgot to address that . Nice try deflecting the questions LOL I did not deflect from anything. Hamas is still fighting. Rockets are not their only means. 10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Yeah sure but if they kill innocent women and children in hospitals and schools and refugee camps. it's OK? Blame Hamas. I have already explained this. 10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: There is no "urban war". They are not combing the streets and shooting and killing the enemy. It is rockets and bombs from afar. Yes, this is urban warfare. Hamas certainly isn't working from established military bases out on an open battlefield. Israel is fighting on the streets, yet again, you just lie, lie, lie. Enough of the lies. Get some integrity. 12 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I don't defend an of the shit that goes on over there, just being devils advocate against the single minded No, you are clearly ignorant of what is going on and lying about much of the rest. That is not playing devils advocate. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 13 Report Share Posted August 13 1 minute ago, User said: So... how do you presume to say how many Israelis want the warmonger to quit? Or were you only speaking for the minority? I did not deflect from anything. Hamas is still fighting. Rockets are not their only means. Blame Hamas. I have already explained this. Yes, this is urban warfare. Hamas certainly isn't working from established military bases out on an open battlefield. Israel is fighting on the streets, yet again, you just lie, lie, lie. Enough of the lies. Get some integrity. No, you are clearly ignorant of what is going on and lying about much of the rest. That is not playing devils advocate. I am far from ignorant, I am quite informed actually. What is ignorant is your inability to see both sides. Look, I really do not care that you are an Israeli supporter so, arguing with me is just wasting your time. Have a great day LOL Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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