Good to see the UK get back on Track!

[CdnFox]

58 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Ahem, all parties use the word manifesto and have always done so.

 

true. Doesnt' mean what it does over here.  We tend to use it as a pejorative but it's just a normal thing over there. 

[Iceni warrior]

It's the Tories who have been in power for the last 14 years who have let all the migrants in.

Mostly on perfectly legal work visas.

A few thousand desperate people on small boats are pretty much an irrelevance in comparison.

Besides, in an aging population who is going to pay my pension, if not hordes of tax paying migrants?

 

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

It's the Tories who have been in power for the last 14 years who have let all the migrants in.

Mostly on perfectly legal work visas.

A few thousand desperate people on small boats are pretty much an irrelevance in comparison.

Besides, in an aging population who is going to pay my pension, if not hordes of tax paying migrants?

 

Well these tend to be the arguments in canada as well, and of course they're bupkis. 

The so called 'tory' party which has been "right wing' in the sense that they're right of castro (barely) hasn't done a good job of focusing on their mandates and has been corrupt and useless. They need to be really crushed and collapse a little and find themselves again.  

Most parties need that from time to time if they've held power too long no matter which country. 

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

It's the Tories who have been in power for the last 14 years who have let all the migrants in.

Mostly on perfectly legal work visas.

A few thousand desperate people on small boats are pretty much an irrelevance in comparison.

Besides, in an aging population who is going to pay my pension, if not hordes of tax paying migrants?

 

oh sure, Labour is going to come in and reverse the Wokeness of the Managerial Elite ?

seems unlikely

more likely that Labour will double and triple down on mass migration

wherein I simply surmise that there will be a revolt

and since it's not Canada, but rather the UK, that revolt could be quite fierce

[Iceni warrior]

2 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

oh sure, Labour is going to come in and reverse the Wokeness of the Managerial Elite ?

seems unlikely

more likely that Labour will double and triple down on mass migration

wherein I simply surmise that there will be a revolt

and since it's not Canada, but rather the UK, that revolt could be quite fierce

You seem to think the current Labour party is going to be some kind of left wing socialist government.

This is the party that threw their last leader (Corbyn) out for being too much of a lefty.

He had to stand as an Independent to retain his seat in Parliament.

 

 

 

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

You seem to think the current Labour party is going to be some kind of left wing socialist government.

This is the party that threw their last leader (Corbyn) out for being too much of a lefty.

He had to stand as an Independent to retain his seat in Parliament.

oh no, I don't think Labour is Socialist anymore

this is Blairite labour, which is the insufferable managerial elite attempting to crush the working & middle classes

hence why I surmise a revolt

[CdnFox]

29 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

You seem to think the current Labour party is going to be some kind of left wing socialist government.

This is the party that threw their last leader (Corbyn) out for being too much of a lefty.

He had to stand as an Independent to retain his seat in Parliament.

 

Yeah but that's like saying "they threw hitler out for being anti religion".   He was ultra extreme, and there's still a lot of room for being a 'leftie' and fairly far leftie without being that extreme. 

I think he'll rule on the left, more left than the previous Conservatives, but the real question will be what are his priorities going to be? Is he going to focus on social issues? Or will his focus be on trying to get the economy going again which is what they desperately need. 

We'll see.  At the end of the day when you add up the right wing party votes they still outnumber the lefts by a healthy margin. the conservatives basically got tossed for not being conservative enough, not because there was a flood to the left.  So he'll have to tred very cautiously and focus on some key things or he'll be out again pretty soon if the Conservatives get their act together. 

[Iceni warrior]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yeah but that's like saying "they threw hitler out for being anti religion".   He was ultra extreme, and there's still a lot of room for being a 'leftie' and fairly far leftie without being that extreme. 

I think he'll rule on the left, more left than the previous Conservatives, but the real question will be what are his priorities going to be? Is he going to focus on social issues? Or will his focus be on trying to get the economy going again which is what they desperately need. 

We'll see.  At the end of the day when you add up the right wing party votes they still outnumber the lefts by a healthy margin. the conservatives basically got tossed for not being conservative enough, not because there was a flood to the left.  So he'll have to tred very cautiously and focus on some key things or he'll be out again pretty soon if the Conservatives get their act together. 

That's not actually true.

The Tories and Reform together only just added up to more votes than Labour. When you take into account the Lib Dems, Green Party, SNP, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru votes for the left were well ahead.

The main reason Labour got so many seats though was Reform splitting the vote on the right. Their 5 seats cost the Tories up to 100 seats.

Thanks Manfrog.

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

That's not actually true.

The Tories and Reform together only just added up to more votes than Labour. When you take into account the Lib Dems, Green Party, SNP, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru votes for the left were well ahead.

The main reason Labour got so many seats though was Reform splitting the vote on the right. Their 5 seats cost the Tories up to 100 seats.

Thanks Manfrog.

Well - you can only count the fringe votes for so much. I mean it's not like anyone would actually want to see Sinn Fein run the country. Well.. nobody sane.  Those are more protest votes.  Last election in Canada the Green party voters went over the the PPC for heaven's sake   LOL  (did not see that coming ) .  So it's a little different with the fringe. 

But sure, the vote splitting very obviously was the issue.  But that kind of brings me back to what i was saying that there is still a very strong right wing presence among voters, it's not that everyone flooded to the left. 

So the left wing party will have to tred carefully or the right will unite against it one way or another. 

But the Conservaties need a solid time out to re think.  They're just a little past their best buy date and need to get back to being a respectable party with clear goals and structure and weed out the corruption. And maybe not go through a leader every 6  minutes. 

[herbie]

4 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Brexit was a good idea that was gone about in the wrong way.

It was a stupid idea entirely without economic sense. You don't pull out of a major market and think you'll be better off alone.

[WestCanMan]

On 7/5/2024 at 1:51 PM, I am Groot said:

The Conservatives spent the last 14 years not being conservative

They were as conservative as MH. They probably would have chosen Trudeau as their leader if he was from there.

They're all closer to being jihadis than patriotic Brits. 

[CdnFox]

39 minutes ago, herbie said:

It was a stupid idea entirely without economic sense. You don't pull out of a major market and think you'll be better off alone.

Sure you do.  But - you have to have a solid plan.  And they didn't deal with that as well as they could have. 

no biggie- never too late to get it right.

[Iceni warrior]

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sure you do.  But - you have to have a solid plan.  And they didn't deal with that as well as they could have. 

no biggie- never too late to get it right.

They had no plan at all. 

That's why it took 4 years to actually leave and why BoJo got caught lying to the Queen and illegally shutting down Parliament so he could sneak in a no deal exit without parliamentary scrutiny.

Rule number one Boris, Parliament is supreme. It's the reason your 'return of sovereignty' mantra was such bullshit. Every rule, regulation or law from Europe had to go before the Westminster Parliament.

Good riddance to the Brexiteers, hopefully Nu Labour can start to repair the damage done and move us back closer to the EU.

[Iceni warrior]

On 7/5/2024 at 10:17 PM, ExFlyer said:

3 terms and we throw them out... LOL

Just five increasingly incompetent and corrupt Prime ministers and no more.

Fool us once shame on them, fool us five times...

[Iceni warrior]

 

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

Just five increasingly incompetent and corrupt Prime ministers and no more.

Fool us once shame on them, fool us five times...

It is a sad thing there are no real leaders anymore, not just in Canada but everywhere.

Or is it that no one can please the public anymore, no matter what they do?

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

They had no plan at all. 

That's why it took 4 years to actually leave and why BoJo got caught lying to the Queen and illegally shutting down Parliament so he could sneak in a no deal exit without parliamentary scrutiny.

you're conflating two issues i think -  the plan to leave and the plan after they left  

 

Quote

Rule number one Boris, Parliament is supreme. It's the reason your 'return of sovereignty' mantra was such bullshit. Every rule, regulation or law from Europe had to go before the Westminster Parliament.

So basically you're a somewhat bitter Remainer with strong bias.

Nothing wrong with that of course but lets not pretend there  was no "other side" to the debate either. I suspect in the long run Britian will look back on it as the correct move. 

Quote

Good riddance to the Brexiteers, hopefully Nu Labour can start to repair the damage done and move us back closer to the EU.

Anything's possible. Regardless of being part of it or not obviously good trade with the EU is important. 

[Iceni warrior]

32 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you're conflating two issues i think -  the plan to leave and the plan after they left  

 

So basically you're a somewhat bitter Remainer with strong bias.

Nothing wrong with that of course but lets not pretend there  was no "other side" to the debate either. I suspect in the long run Britian will look back on it as the correct move. 

Anything's possible. Regardless of being part of it or not obviously good trade with the EU is important. 

''Bitter Remainer''  is a rather emotive response to a reasoned statement about Boris's law breaking.

However, bitter is the correct feeling to have when you've been f@cked without lube and not even had the offer of a reach around. 

 

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

''Bitter Remainer''  is a rather emotive response to a reasoned statement about Boris's law breaking.

I think if you read your post again you'll note there is definitely a very bitter sounding tone to it   

Quote

However, bitter is the correct feeling to have when you've been f@cked without lube and not even had the offer of a reach around. 

LOL     Well I'd say we can put the 'bitter' part to bed now.   

I've heard both sides of that argument, and if you feel something was done inappropriately to bring about something you opposed then sure, you're going to hold resentment. And that's fine. 

But it does mean you'll have some bias when looking at the situation.  There were many good reasons to leave, there were good arguments to stay. The fact you reached a decision leaning one way doesn't mean that the other opinions are invalid or that everyone else is 'stupid/criminal. 

Like i said in the long run they may well look back and say it was the best move.  Europe's problems are moving many countries to the right and that trend may well continue - not everyone's happy with life in the EU right now. 

[Iceni warrior]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

I think if you read your post again you'll note there is definitely a very bitter sounding tone to it   

LOL     Well I'd say we can put the 'bitter' part to bed now.   

I've heard both sides of that argument, and if you feel something was done inappropriately to bring about something you opposed then sure, you're going to hold resentment. And that's fine. 

But it does mean you'll have some bias when looking at the situation.  There were many good reasons to leave, there were good arguments to stay. The fact you reached a decision leaning one way doesn't mean that the other opinions are invalid or that everyone else is 'stupid/criminal. 

Like i said in the long run they may well look back and say it was the best move.  Europe's problems are moving many countries to the right and that trend may well continue - not everyone's happy with life in the EU right now. 

Where did I call anyone stupid?

As for criminal, Boris was ruled to have shut down Parliament unlawfully by the Supreme Court and was charged, found guilty and fined by the police over 'Partygate'.

Then there were all the lies.

Lies on a bus about an extra £350 million a week for the NHS.

Lies about ''oven ready deals'' and 80 million Turks coming to the UK unless we left the EU.

Lies about sovereignty, lies about the money we'd save.

So yeah I'm a little bitter and I've got every right to be.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2024 by Iceni warrior

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Iceni warrior said:

So yeah I'm a little bitter and I've got every right to be.

the European Union will eventually go so far right, that even you won't want to be a member of it anymore

since it's only a matter of time until the far right is ruling from Brussels

consider that, if there had been an European Union in the 1930's

the Fascists would have been able to seize power, nary a shot fired

Edited July 8, 2024 by Dougie93

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Iceni warrior said:

Where did I call anyone stupid?

It's implied very clearly in your post that people who voted for brexit or held those ideas are either fools or were tricked.  Lets not pretend otherwise, I'm sure we're both adult enough to accept that you don't hold people with that view in high regard without dwelling on the semenatics. 

Quote

As for criminal, Boris was ruled to have shut down Parliament unlawfully by the Supreme Court and was charged, found guilty and fined by the police over 'Partygate'.

Sure. Doesn't have much to do with brexit but definitely shenannigans and he got punted for it.  And?

 

Quote

Then there were all the lies.

Compared to Nigel who never told one in his life?   LOL

Quote

Lies on a bus about an extra £350 million a week for the NHS.

Lies about ''oven ready deals'' and 80 million Turks coming to the UK unless we left the EU.

Lies about sovereignty, lies about the money we'd save.

 

Uh huh. 

Ahem.  Voters were misled over Brexit – but mostly by the Remain campaign - CapX 

Both sides point to the other and claim they lied their butts off and both sides probably have a point. 

So it's hard to see how anyone would be exessively offended at one set of lies while dismissing the others. 

 

Quote

So yeah I'm a little bitter and I've got every right to be.

Sure, if you like.  You don't need to justify it to me.  I never said you were WRONG or didn't have the right -  i said you were bitter.  Sounds like we agree.   

 

[CrazyCanuck89]

On 7/7/2024 at 11:51 AM, ironstone said:

I don't think there will be much difference except that Labour will likely be even worse than the Conservatives. They will stick with mass immigration for one thing.

Five pro-Palestinian MP's got elected. Some Muslims in the UK voted solely on a Muslim related issue. How about that?

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-muslim-areas-mps-palestine-independents-london-general-election-results-b1168968.html

No, Labour will stop this victim mentality that Conservatives have.

[herbie]

On 7/7/2024 at 7:17 PM, CdnFox said:

Sure you do.  But - you have to have a solid plan.

So tell us your plan where smaller markets mean economic growth?
 

 

[herbie]

icene warrior you do realize you're on a site where a lot of people think Trudeau and Biden are extreme socialists.

Just advice from a DIpper that understands that in 2024 the NDP and Labour are the 'Diet Pepsis of socialism'.

Edited July 10, 2024 by herbie